Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

Mac Zealots: Get a grip

Is there anything Apple didn't invent?

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Over at MicrosoftGadgets.com, Mac zealots are giving new meaning to the term uninformed fanatic. This week, Microsoft announced Microsoft Gadgets. As has been discussed, gadgets are similar to widgets except they do not require the user to download a run-time in order to use them. They're stand-alone entities.

Microsoft's gadgets are designed to be used on Windows Vista (and on XP via Avalon) and can sit on the desktop, be placed on the Windows Side-bar and be put onto the web.

Mac zealots started foaming that Microsoft was ripping off Apple. A pretty impressive display of chutzpah considering Apple ripped off the concept from Konfabulator. Some Mac users tried to argue that no, that's not true, Apple's desktop accessories predate it all. Balderdash. I knew Apple accessories. Apple accessories were a friend of mine. Dashboard is no follow-on to desktop accesories. It's interesting to note that Mac zealots only discovered the wonder of desktop accessories AFTER Dashboard had been announced. In the 5 years DesktopX had existed, not once did a Mac user say "That's a copy of Desktop accessories". Similarly, you'd be hard pressed to go onto the Konfabulator forums and see an early post from someone saying "Isn't this just like desktop accessories?" In short, the desktop accessories comparison was manufactured by zealots to cover the fact that Apple got caught, again, ripping off its ISVs.

So it's rather ironic to hear them argue Microsoft was ripping off Apple. If anyone should be mad, it should be Stardock. After all, DesktopX was the first mini-application enabler that allowed end users to easily create them. The DNA difference between DesktopX's widgets/gadgets, Konfabulator, Dashborad, Kapsules, etc. is relatively small compared to the difference between them and something like desktop accessories (or hypercard or Incan clay tablets for that matter).

But you haven't heard Stardock complain about Microsoft's gadget strategy even though it's identical to Stardock's. People all week have been asking us for our reaction to Microsoft's announcement. Similarly, when Yahoo bought Konfabulator, we were asked for our reaction. How would it affect DesktopX? We didn't really say much. This week, users everywhere discovered the reason we've been so quiet.

I'm not the only one who finds the latest example of historical revisioning by Mac zealots galling. Paul Boyer, who was created DesktopX objects back in 1999 (as in clocks, mp3 players, drive monitors, you get the idea) without knowing programming (he's a graphics designer) is appalled as well. Check out the article below.

And stay tuned to more information on the Stardock/Microsoft gadget evolution. Exciting things are afoot.

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I always thought after Al Gore invented the internet he had gotten together with Little Richard to invent the stuff that makes your desktop rock and roll.

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I hate Apple. This is one of the reasons why.

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thomassen

Join Date 01/2003

+10

Why do people bother so much who was first? Why not enjoy the fact that it's availible in various forms on various OS's? All the better for the user. A little competition is healthy to boost further development.

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I always thought after Al Gore invented the internet he had gotten together with Little Richard to invent the stuff that makes your desktop rock and roll.

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Oh my God! I checked out MicrosoftGadgets.com and never saw anything like that! Sounds like the anticonformism that Apple summoned people to combat in their famous 1984 commercial was actually a projection of Apple's own fanboys! Terrifying! Steve Jobs can now raise his army, they're ready to kill!

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LOL

since I use both and like both ( macs and pcs) , I can say I like it when they (ms and apple) take something they see from one another and make it better. it is when they patent it and then make the other pay if they want to use it that I as a consumer end up hating it because I can't have the best features of both in the same box. all hail the spirit of competition and freebasing!

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kona0197

Join Date 02/2003

+86

I Agree. All this is pointless.

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I still find these front-page opinion-pieces (you'd probably call 'em "reporting") amusing..., but then again one can hardly expect an unbiased approach themselves here anymore.

It's sad to see the extremism that either side is willing to resort to in scenarios such as these. Unencouraging to see fellow Apple users behave in the manner witnessed at MicrosoftGadgets. But, then again, there have been some rather scathing statements about Macs and the OS X operating system given under the guile of "articles" here that were UTTERLY foundationless. I'm speaking specifically of Paul Boyer's Mac OS X Tiger review, which itself espoused some of the vile attitude now seen on MicrosoftGadgets.com. Neither situation is fair.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1846

I'm speaking specifically of Paul Boyer's Mac OS X Tiger review, which itself espoused some of the vile attitude

That's a bit objectionable, really......"vile attitude" indeed.

A guy extols his personal tale of woe and it's categorized as 'vile'?

I think it's time to step back and smell the roses....

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Cordelia

Join Date 07/2002

I still find these front-page opinion-pieces (you'd probably call 'em "reporting") amusing

This is a blog, not "reporting". I know for a fact he's not trying to be a journalist, just expressing his feelings about this situation.

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mormegil

Join Date 03/2001

+74

Cool, I did not know I was being "Vile". Anyway. This was a blog, on my thoughts about the Gadget situation. I own a mac, I have been useing it for years, I have been fallowing OS-X since it was NeXT. I dont think my opinons are un founded. If you do not agree, I am sorry. But after all its just my blog. Not CNN.

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NightTrainthedark

Join Date 07/2003

+255

I bitch therefore I blog

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Yeah, in 20-20 hindsight, I'd still call Mormegil's statements in his OS X Tiger review as "vile." Check the definition.. Merriam-Webster includes "tending to degrade" and "morally despicable or abhorrent." While not necessarily morally despicable or abhorrent, his description of the mac networking situation and the inability to handle widgets, in addition to tending degrade, blatantly false.

If you're free to blog, I'm free to comment. The definition of the word fits his review, and I'm gonna stick to it. Mormegil's provided some exceptional insights, and some real stinkers, too. That article was clearly not his best.

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The reason I call it out on the "reporting" issue is simply because it's on the front-page of Wincustomize. But I've already lost this war several times here, obviously.

I can still give my opinion, however, for which I'm grateful.

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MrBiotech, what I put on the home page of my website is my business.

You speak of vile things, I'll tell you what's vile -- Mac users trying to claim that widgets/gadgets are some how inspired by desktop accessories. These are people who are completely clueless about what widgets and gadgets are all about.

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Oh, I completely agree! Ignorance is ignorance, and I'm not condoning their actions in any form. I'm simply commenting on how both sides are guilty of this behavior. Obviously, you're a businessman, and to have positive articles regarding operating systems beyond the one you support wouldn't promote your products. I can't knock you for that, although I do believe the objectivity has been lost here. The impression did exist in my mind that this was a community site, however, of which I'm apparently mistaken.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1846

Skinner mrbiotech ....I think the problem here is one 'side' is trying to rewrite history through indignation.....and the other 'side' is indignant that history is trying to be rewritten.

Those who live through history will know when it's being screwed with....

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This is a community site. It's just not a Mac zealot community.

You see, here's the basic problem which you seem incapable of grasping:

Mac zealots are trying to rewrite history. They are being dishonest, ignorant, or both. For those of us who have spent 6 years of their lives on this stuff, it's a bit obnoxious for some Mac users to try to act like everything was copied off of them.

When I helped design DesktopX, desktop accessories were the furthest thing from my mind. What inspired me was OpenDoc (which Apple was apart of incidentally).

But it is amusing seeing you claim that this isn't a community site simply because OUR community doesn't support Mac zealotry. Are all Mac oriented sites non-community sites because their owners bad-mouth Windows and "Pee-Cee" users?

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mormegil

Join Date 03/2001

+74

mrBioTech? what was false about my coments about the widgets in tiger? and the networking? I would be interested to know. If I am wrong I will retract my coments. But I have been running tiger since it came out on my mac, and have not found any way to corect the issues I was bitching about, other then third party apps?

PS. I know you can set up shares for other drives and such buy editing the prefs files. Though it is a pain.

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Brad, I'm afraid it's you who isn't grasping the situtation here (sorry, bud): Apparently you think I'm upset with wincustomize or stardock because they don't support the mac. This is not the case. Although I do prefer the mac, I am not stating that what the mac-users at MicrosoftGadgets.com is good or even acceptable. I've stated at least twice in this thread alone that I'm not happy with their behavior. I completely agree with what Jafo has wisely stated, that these Mac zealots are attempting to rewrite history.

Your final misinterpretation is that I'm saying wincustomize isn't a community because "it doesn't support mac zealotry." I'm saying it doesn't feel as community as previous years because it's primarily yourself doing all the front-page posting and because you make statements like

MrBiotech, what I put on the home page of my website is my business

. The personal possessive seemed to indicate yourself as the sole proprietor as opposed to a community or group endeavor (which may indeed be true).

So you see, you've misinterpreted my statements multiple times, from multiple comments, and I think you're ascribing an attack from me that perhaps isn't what you think it is. Jafo urged me to be more objective, which I am attempting to do. I urge you to do the same when you read my statements, please.

Let me state this without ambiguity: there are clearly zealots on both sides. Simple. Sure, we hate it when ignorant mac-users front a revisionist mindset when the evidence is clearly against them. The mac users certainly hate it when ignorant statements are made about their preferred operating system too, which has occurred here at various times. That's it.

For the curious, the principle article that I'm addressing is here: https://www.wincustomize.com/Articles.aspx?AID=74748

The title was clue enough to the author (Mormegil's) intentions, although the comments in response had a decidedly pro-Apple twist.

Mormegil- the comments to your thread address these points multiple times, by multiple authors.
To access files on my mac remotely from one of my PCs, I simply typed in the FTP address of the mac into a typical file-manager window and had complete access. No modification of files was required, although you do have to click the "Activate File-Sharing" checkbox in your configuration panel, and some users will want to specify permissions.

The statements about the widgets not running in multiples and their odd-behaviors have not been repeated by myself and two other friends, so we conclude that either you have a unique problem on your Mac, or that perhaps my (then) version 10.4.1 OS X was a different build than yours. My mac was purchased with the first run of OS X installations included on CD, previous to it being preinstalled.

The installation issues whereby all your iPhoto, etc. were lost might not have happened if the dialog boxes that appear during installation were read. One of them presents the option of a complete clean install versus an install over the existing operating system. This you acknowledge in your article.

These are the principal points of concern that were ranted over in your article, if I'm correct, and most had simple solutions. I still don't know what's wrong with your Dashboard widgets, we've tried to replicate the problems you claim to have experienced without success.

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Mr. Biotech,

You are free to believe whatever you choose. However, nothing is stopping others from submitting home page news. I have also always been the person who submitted most of the home page news.

And I would be willing to bet that most WINDOWS users on a Windows Customization site, would have much the same feeling as I do about Mac users trying to rewrite history.

If a false statement is repeated enough times, it becomes treated as the same as a fact.

Check this link:

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=Konfabulator

When Microsoft announced its gadgets, most of the stories on it discussed how they are similar to Konfabulator without even mentioning DesktopX despite DesktopX having a very large user base and having existed for years before Konfabulator. How did that happen? Because we sat back too long and allowed Mac users to define what historical reality on widgets.

The home page of WinCustomize has never claimed to be neutral. WinCustomize.com has an agenda and we push it. That agenda is the popularization of Windows customization. We have a point of view and we make no bones about it. Even newpapers have editorial.

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I agree with Brad here....for years & years I thought apple computers were easy to use "right out of the box" - no set-up & if you were totally new to computers it's what you bought! That's all I HEARD over & over & over - BOTH SYSTEMS require computer knowledge to get the most out of them...& they don't work perfect "out of the box" as I was led to believe!! When my next door neighbor purchased his G3 right after Apple released it,(I know this is awhile ago), his wife told him "don't do it - you'll have nothing but trouble till they update it"....he went right ahead anyway & purchased it regardless! She told me he spent half his life talking to tech's about one problem after another..............I was always under the impression that ONLY happens to PC users!!! Not being someone who had computers at a young age, I believed all the stuff about how much better EVERYTHING Apple was - it's just not true - but I believed it!! The point I'm trying to make here is what Brad's saying is true: They keep perpetuating these myths & false claims.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1846

Yes, the frontpage 'News' is open to anyone....though the 'Admin/s' become 'Editor in chief' with regards to what is posted. ["Hi, for a good time call 555...." won't get in].

Last one I approved specifically was from Kona.

Frogboy does the lion's share of News posting....for one good reason....he does the lion's share of news posting. If others submitted salient News topics/items then his prominence would likely be diluted...

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mormegil

Join Date 03/2001

+74

MrBiotech

1) You are corect about the shareing if all you want to do is share the home folder of a user. Shareing a none home folder or a adtional drive requires you to edit the prefferances, or use a seperate program.

2) Widgets work fine in some But if you close the weather app, (Remove it from you dashboard) and then add it again. It will lose its zip each time. Also my main gripe with dashboard widget is that they are attached to the dashboard, by default you only see them when you hit the dashboard button. If you control drag them off to the desktop they will stand alone, untill the next time you hit the dashboard button. Then you have to do it all again if you want it to stand alone. (This is just proly exicuted) and konfab is better for stand alone widgets.

3) I admit that losing my iPhote, iMovie apps was my own falt, I should have upgraged insted of doing a fresh install. I was just mad becuse this it pissed me off. I also beleve if MS did something like that, like takeing several must have apps out of windows, every distict atterny in the contry would be sueing them.

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mormegil

Join Date 03/2001

+74

MrBiotech PS. Back on the mac now, checking to see if I was wrong. But I made sure I have the latest updates od tiger, and the widget "problems" are still there. I will say one thing though, I dont think that there is a bug. I think dashboard works fine for dashboard, as apple wants it to act. I Think they would agree with you. and say "Why would anyone want to leave a widget on the desk at all times. Well i do, I keep a to do list and a few mail checkers up at all times. I can do that with Konfab, I cant with dashboard.

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