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grayhaze
grayhaze
Join Date 07/2001
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Speaking Legalese

May 18, 2003 6:53:02 AM from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I'm in the process of creating a skin which I will need to distribute using a stand-alone installer due to the way the skin works, and the need to check and modify the 'wbuser.ini' file during installation. I've decided on the open source Nullsoft installer for the task as it seems moderately straight forward to do what I need with it, and it won't cost me a penny.

While working out how the installer needs to work I realised that I'd quite like to have a decent license agreement page during installation which would cover me for the usual 'at your own risk' stuff, along with some legal protection against image theft and so on. I've taken a look at the license agreements that come with various freely downloadable applications, and I'd like something similar. Obviously the wording would need to be changed quite a lot, and this is where I'm a bit stuck.

Does anyone here speak legalese enough to come up with a decent license agreement for a skin? I'm not looking for anything too long, but rather a simple agreement where anyone installing the skin agrees not to redistribute or modify the skin for any purpose without written permission. I'm guessing Jafo's my best bet, but I think this could be a good thing for everyone to discuss so that such a generic agreement could be included with most skins we upload here.
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grayhaze
riverrun
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #1 May 18, 2003 7:18:04 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Sigh.

I have qualms with the whole "do not modify without asking" deal. That is precisely the attitude that is choking the modern artist world.



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grayhaze
grayhaze
Join Date 07/2001
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Reply #2 May 18, 2003 7:22:21 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Modifying for personal use is fine, riverrun. It's modifying for purposes other than the original work was intended for, and then redistributing, that is the problem. In most cases, a simple request to the author will get you permission anyway. This would just offer some protection against, and information for, those who don't/won't ask.
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grayhaze
grayhaze
Join Date 07/2001
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Reply #3 May 18, 2003 7:26:21 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
And besides, if someone wants to protect their work, why shouldn't they be able to? It's not your place to decide whether I have the right to protect my work.

As for the 'attitude that is choking the modern artist world', I'd say that attitude is the one where it's better to rip off someone else's work rather than have the creativity and imagination to create your own. The only world that my attitude is choking is one of dishonesty and theft.
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grayhaze
grayhaze
Join Date 07/2001
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Reply #4 May 18, 2003 7:28:26 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Anyway, I digress. If you don't have anything useful to add to the topic of the thread, don't bother posting at all. This isn't going to turn into another copyright theft argument.

I want helpful opinions only.
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grayhaze
WOM
Join Date 01/2002
+253 moderator
Reply #5 May 18, 2003 7:29:35 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Right on grayhaze.



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grayhaze
Hus
Join Date 09/2001
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Reply #6 May 18, 2003 7:35:25 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Grayhaze, do you think anyone actually reads license agreements? Take Microsoft for example, I've installed countless MS Apps and never once bothered to read their book they call a license agreement. I'm sure there is some very interesting info in there like, 'MS will send all your info to MS to keep tabs on all citizens on earth'. But I would never know, I never read it!! Also, even if you did make a license agreement, do you really think its gonna stop someone from ripping your skin? You're gonna be stuck in the same boat whether you have one or not...chasing them down and sending hostile emails telling them that they're dishonest people. Even paid skins get ripped, I remember posts about PixOS being ripped on some japanese website a while back, and you need a paid activation key just do download it. My point is instead, having your works copied and ripped is gonna be a part of the skinning world, unless WB uses some sort of encryption, so until then, you gotta take it with a grain of salt. It sucks but what choice do you have?

PS: I'm drooling for your next skin.
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grayhaze
grayhaze
Join Date 07/2001
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Reply #7 May 18, 2003 8:19:36 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I agree that the majority of people just agree to a license without actually reading it, but in doing so they are actually agreeing to a legally binding contract. I guess one of the main motivations for including a license agreement, aside from the fact that using an installer lends itself well to the use of one, would be to put a stop to all those people who rip a skin and then complain loudly that there wasn't anything in the skin to tell them they couldn't. These people blatantly don't understand copyright law, but they can't really argue with a license agreement when they actually had to click 'I agree' before the installer would let them continue.

Of course there will still be the same hunting down of rippers and arguments about 'free speech' and all that nonsense, but this just adds an extra layer to your claim against them. Also if ever such a situation did get to court, they wouldn't have a single line of defence.

This skin was originally intended as a commercial skin, but the fact that I'll now be making it freely available doesn't change the desire I have to protect myself and my work as much as possible.

So aside from the discussion of whether a license agreement is a good thing or not, can anyone help with the actual content of the agreement?
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grayhaze
Jafo
Join Date 03/2001
+1845 sdemployee
Reply #8 May 18, 2003 8:19:58 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
The great thing about licence agreements is exactly that no-one actually NEEDS to read them. The simple fact they are present means they are deemed to have been 'read'...
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grayhaze
grayhaze
Join Date 07/2001
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Reply #9 May 18, 2003 8:20:04 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
P.S. Thanks for the drool.
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grayhaze
eieio
Join Date 03/2003
+52
Reply #10 May 18, 2003 9:07:28 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
grayhaze, perhaps this page might help you to construct your own license agreement.
http://dmoz.org/Computers/Open_Source/Licenses/

Hope this helps
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grayhaze
Styl-X Design
Join Date 05/2002
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Reply #11 May 18, 2003 9:11:28 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Jafo, you can't give him a hand? You're the 'master' of english here
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grayhaze
grayhaze
Join Date 07/2001
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Reply #12 May 18, 2003 9:45:49 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Thanks for the link pictoratus. I've had a quick look through some of the sites listed, but they seem to mostly give examples of open source licenses, which aren't really suitable for these purposes.

What's needed is probably along the lines of the Clip Art license agreements you sometimes see which allow you to use the art for personal non-commercial purposes, but don't allow you to modify or redistribute the art in any way.
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grayhaze
Hus
Join Date 09/2001
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Reply #13 May 18, 2003 10:16:24 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Grayhaze, if you want, this link might be of use to you. It's the EULA for Microsoft Design Gallery Live. It houses MS's clipart gallery. I didn't bother to read it, but im sure you can scrape up some usefull info from it.

http://dgl.microsoft.com/mgo1en/license.asp
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grayhaze
grayhaze
Join Date 07/2001
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Reply #14 May 18, 2003 1:59:55 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
grayhaze bumps
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grayhaze
Jafo
Join Date 03/2001
+1845 sdemployee
Reply #15 May 18, 2003 2:08:00 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Jafo sleeps...hence the inability to assist at the mo'...
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grayhaze
grayhaze
Join Date 07/2001
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Reply #16 May 18, 2003 3:17:06 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
grayhaze is impressed by Jafo's ability to type whilst asleep.
Is there no end to this man's talents?!
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grayhaze
Jafo
Join Date 03/2001
+1845 sdemployee
Reply #17 May 18, 2003 7:29:02 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

A man of many talents...[some are even useful]...

Kevin....email me details of what you want exactly to 'do', and I'll formulate some appropriate 'wording' for it...

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