WB6 doesn't support Vista Start Menu function/wording

My assumption as to the cause is that this is either a limitation of Vista customization or of WindowBlinds 6. I will let the developers know.

Thank you.

-Mike
[Stardock Support]

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Thanks, but I don't think it's a limitation of Vista customization because even Vista without Aero changes this part of the Start Menu. I really think it was left like that because WB6 can't differentiate between Vista and XP when it comes to skinning. This is why the skins have to be updated for Vista to allow for the wider Start Menu. In WB5.5 (which was only released to be able to run skins on Vista) the Start Menu wideness in Vista was causing issues with text cutting off with all skins. So, now with WB6 being for both Vista and XP I think that when the Start Menu gets skinned there's nothing in the "skin" iteself (i.e. they didn't put a provision in skin studio) to allow for the transition changes to the Vista Start Menu. They simply made provisions to make it wider, but overlooked this small detail because XP doesn't do this.

Anyway, if you could please plead with the devs to fix this it would be great. I'm very discouraged of all the bugs and glitches/left out stuff I'm finding in WB6, and frankly even I am getting sick of all my smart ass remarks about the shortcomings of it, but how else will the squeaky wheel get the grease? I honestly wish they would just release a comprehensive version that puts all these issues to bed. Somehow I just feel that this version is incomplete.

Thanks for your help.

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Something else I noticed is that in Vista the Start Menu can natively "shift" itself left and right as folders expand so you can read everything. Seems in WB6.0 that this no longer functions. What are people supposed to do if there's programs a few folders deep? They won't be able to read them.

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ZubaZ

Join Date 11/2001

+917

in Vista the Start Menu can natively "shift" itself left and right as folders expand so you can read everything.

I hate that feature and miss the XP style menus. It never seems to move enough over to read verything as it is. (see fig 1)

fig 1

However, I do see the same (crappy) shift when using WB6. I do see some artifacts left behind. That may be due to my vid card. (see spec below)

Your computer has a Windows Experience Index base score of 4.1
Your Windows Graphics Experience score is 4.4

WindowBlinds version : WindowBlinds 6.0 (build 49 x86 - Vista Edition)

WindowBlinds is installed correctly on this PC
WindowBlinds appears to be activated on this PC
(Dell E773c) 1 is attached to Radeon X1650 Series

Wblind.dll         2007/10/01 11:46:20
Wbsrv.dll         2007/09/24 19:08:26
Wbconfig.exe         2007/10/01 17:35:33
Wbload.exe         2007/09/27 17:47:44
Wbhelp.dll         2007/08/27 11:54:07
Tray.dll              2007/09/12 17:58:21
Wbload.dll              2007/09/12 17:58:28
Screen.exe         2007/10/01 11:23:24

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Oh wow, I hadn't even noticed that. I've got the same issue as well.
Incase its needed:

Your computer has a Windows Experience Index base score of 5.4
Your Windows Graphics Experience score is 5.9

WindowBlinds version : WindowBlinds 6.0 (build 49 x86 - Vista Edition) - 64 bit OS

WindowBlinds is installed correctly on this PC
WindowBlinds appears to be activated on this PC
(Dell E207WFP) 1 is attached to Radeon X1950 Series

Wblind.dll 2007/10/01 11:46:20
Wblind64.dll 2007/10/01 11:46:04
Wbsrv.dll 2007/09/27 17:47:05
Wbconfig.exe 2007/10/01 17:35:33
Wbload.exe 2007/09/27 17:47:44
Wbhelp.dll 2007/08/27 11:54:07
Tray.dll 2007/09/12 17:58:21
Wbload.dll 2007/09/26 12:53:28
Screen.exe 2007/09/26 14:42:52

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1845

Thanks, but I don't think it's a limitation of Vista customization because even Vista without Aero changes this part of the Start Menu.

I think what milksama is suggesting as the cause is that that 'feature' may be hard-coded and not something that Windowblinds can access/alter.

Yes it "may" be a bug...but it also may be an impossibility. Mike's passing it on....and I'm sure Neil will be able to enighten one way or another...

There's an actual 'bug' in Winamp 2.9x, for example...a 1 pixel offset error in the 'window' buttons...that required the skinner to compensate for....it dates back to when Fli7e first worked out how to alter/apply skins to the original WA a decade or so ago...

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Don't fret Zubaz, my video is 4.4 as well on my laptop and and it's not much to sneeze at. If you're running Vista and don't hit below a 4.0 on anything you're doing better the even some of the other guys out there that are buying new systems with crappy shared memory video cards in them. I've run out of fingers and toes trying to keep count on how many new systems I've seen on the shelves with Vista on them that can barely muster a 3.x for video let alone anything else. Such a shame.

Anyhow, back on topic. I can't get mine to to shift at all. I've created folders 10 levels down to check and it will not shift at all. I've tried this with various skins both Vista capable ones and non-Vista ones. What gives.

So, what about that All Programs wording thing.... you guys think it can be made to work like it does in "native" Vista?

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ShelbyGT_The_Car

Join Date 01/2004

+103

Simple answer is the skin does not have what is needed by windows to support this feature properly. Not that it can not be added in or fixed either. For there is a fix for this and a lot of other things yet to be used with WB6 and SKS6 beta.
As I've said before " It sure would be nice to have the code editor we had with SKS5 in SKS6~!"
Plus as far as I see it there is no system fonts or editing for system resources yet with SKS6. The feature you are trying to edit or use here is dependent on system resources... and that of the right settings being used or applied with the WB it is using. {GUI}

thats not a graphic card or driver error - but the way it is painted by WB6 and the system GUI.

SGT

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I have a question..... How does something like this slip by to production? It's just a simple question, that's all. Seems to have lots of holes compared to Aero in Vista.

If this was XP, then hey, WB6 rocks, but this is Vista we're talking about. Do I have to wait til WB6.5 to get proper skinning in Vista now? WTH?

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I have too much problems with wb6 on vista x64 that i do not have time to describe ...
all bugs related to wb6 and vista x64 i discovered here in forum ...

I paid 19,99$ for buggy software ... please update wb6.0 to work with vista x64 flawlessly.

Brgds,
Sergej

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Neil Banfield

Join Date 04/2001

+1104

The visual glitch when the list scrolls is a problem in explorer not WindowBlinds. The exact same corruption happens with aero.

As for the back text, this requires skins to be changed as many skins have All Programs hardcoded into their graphics. We will be adding additional sections for the skin author soon.

Seronjsky: What problems are you having?

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The visual glitch when the list scrolls is a problem in explorer not WindowBlinds. The exact same corruption happens with aero.

Ummm, no it doesn't. I have no problems WHATSOEVER with Aero handling this. It does it in it's sleep. I haven't seen any PCs to date with Vista on them running Aero and they range from having POS video cards to having top of the line DX10 ones. None of them exhibit this kind of issue with the scrolling on the Start Menu. None.

As for the back text, this requires skins to be changed as many skins have All Programs hardcoded into their graphics. We will be adding additional sections for the skin author soon.

Freaking awesome! Please, please update all your Vista skins when you guys do that. I hate to say it, but this little anoyment is just about as anoying as the CMD prompt not skinning.

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Neil Banfield

Join Date 04/2001

+1104

The visual glitch when the list scrolls is a problem in explorer not WindowBlinds. The exact same corruption happens with aero.

Ummm, no it doesn't. I have no problems WHATSOEVER with Aero handling this. It does it in it's sleep. I haven't seen any PCs to date with Vista on them running Aero and they range from having POS video cards to having top of the line DX10 ones. None of them exhibit this kind of issue with the scrolling on the Start Menu. None.

Sorry, but you are wrong on this.

I have just checked and can reproduce at will with Windows Aero. The only reason you would see if more often with WB skins is the older XP skins have a startmenu split of about 50:50 to each side which results in less room on the left panel and so a greater chance of it having to scroll.

If you want to reproduce it, just make a folder with a long name in the startmenu. When it scrolls left you will find it has not repainted correctly.

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vStyler

Join Date 11/2004

+919

None of them exhibit this kind of issue with the scrolling on the Start Menu. None.

I reproduced it on Aero too. So that's actually incorrect. My score is 5.0

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I'm sorry guys, but on my laptop's Aero does not corrupt the shifting. I don't know what you're talking about or trying to blame on Vista's GUI capabilities at all, but WB6 corrupts, Aero does not. I'd post some screenshots, but this forum doesn't allow for image upload and I don't feel like hosting them elsewhere. Hell, I tried it on 5 PCs and nothing with Aero. All clean. I'm not buying it. You guys might be having other issues that are causing you to think this is a regular thing with Vista Aero, but it's not.

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vStyler

Join Date 11/2004

+919

I don't feel like hosting them elsewhere.

Then you must not be too concerned.

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ShelbyGT_The_Car

Join Date 01/2004

+103

I'm sorry guys, but on my laptop's Aero does not corrupt the shifting.

With Vista Aero it may be hard for you to see it or that is you are moving with the touch pad before it is seen too! But it is as Neil says it is and here are few shots to show you exactly what it is you are looking for ...

thats the left side of the shift for Aero...

now the right side shift...

Now it will go away if you move before it is seen. You would have to be very careful and take careful notice to see it in Vista Aero.

SGT

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Fuzzy Logic

Join Date 05/2002

+493

Corruption in Aero visible to the right:-

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ShelbyGT_The_Car

Join Date 01/2004

+103

As for the back text, this requires skins to be changed as many skins have All Programs hardcoded into their graphics. We will be adding additional sections for the skin author soon.

That and maybe the code for sections to be edited with a in program editor~~~??
With maybe the same doing xml too? I bet thats too much {the xml part}. But I would be for sure using it if you did add it in.

Sincerely SGT

Neil your the best - I know you can do it!

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vStyler

Join Date 11/2004

+919

I'm not buying it

Buying it now? There's nothing wrong with bringing up valid concerns, any, as you describe yourself "annoying media guy" would be expected to.. They are also supposed to do thorough research. Seems you didn't. For all your stubborn denial.. Aero does the same thing. Maybe in the future you can temper your haste.

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Ok, I took several close looks again and it does happen in Aero as well. (You do have to look REALLY close though, I mean REALLY close.) My bad. I'm taking this up with MS then. However, my concern about the All Programs/Back (+ arrow) still stands and I'd appreciate Neil allowing for this sort of menu display to happen when skinning in WB6 and to update all Stardock official skins to work like this. I think it would make for a "more complete" product. Also, another request for capabilities. Please allow skinners to be able to colorize the shutdown button differently for each shutdown profile you have setup. Aero does different colors for shutdown vs sleep vs hibernate. Thanks in advance.

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CerebroJD

Join Date 01/2003

+9

It's likely unrealistic to expect all Stardock skins to be updated with this new feature, IF it is introduced/fixed.

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ShelbyGT_The_Car

Join Date 01/2004

+103

Also, another request for capabilities. Please allow skinners to be able to colorize the shutdown button differently for each shutdown profile you have setup. Aero does different colors for shutdown vs sleep vs hibernate. Thanks in advance.

We have that option already and plan on seeing it with lots skins made with the new 6 version WB and Skin Studio. At a website near you...!

oh one more thing too... MS is not gona change anything in the Vista Aero GUI. They got too many other problems worth lots more money to them to bother with such a small matter at this time. But Windows Seven "7" will address this in the GUI completely. So just wait around till 2010 and we will have it all fixed for you.

SGT

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

I have a question..... How does something like this slip by to production? It's just a simple question, that's all. Seems to have lots of holes compared to Aero in Vista.

Nobody noticed until it was released. I certainly didn't. We had an open beta for what? 4 months? No one noticed it.

JRS, don't take this the wrong way but reading through your posts you do seem to maek a mountain out of a mole hill.

Not having "All programs" change to say "back" is hardly what I think most people would consider enough to say that WindowBlinds 6 doesn't "properly" skin Vista.

I could just as easily point out that Windows Vista STILL doesn't skin non-theme aware apps other than title bar and border. I would say that's a lot more jarring.

Try doing some software development with old GNU tools and such under Vista and tell me that Vista has fewer skinning holes. With WindowBlinds, I get a much more consistent, polished experience than I do with Vista on its own.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1845

Ok, I took several close looks again and it does happen in Aero as well. (You do have to look REALLY close though, I mean REALLY close.) My bad. I'm taking this up with MS then.

Thank GOD for that....

Thinking back to post #6 and my Winamp bug reference....it's generally the actual skinners themselves who pick up errors/bugs/failings within a skinned GUI. Often they look at them [skins] at an INDIVIDUAL pixel level...so the slightest anomaly becomes evident.

When it's mentioned that Aero has this fault....mentioned by skinners....as well as mentioned by the person developing the skinning program...it's really a safe bet they are correct. It is, after all, their field....

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