SHE'S GONE AGAIN

I'm very sorry for the loss (again). My thoughts are with you and yoru wife.

It sucks loving kids more than they have earned.

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I'm sorry Starkers. Take care of yourself and your family. We are here for you.

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KarmaGirl

Join Date 03/2001

+118

I am so sorry to hear that. I hope that things will resolve themselves, and in the future you can look back at this as just a "bad time". You and your family will be in my thoughts.

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Starkers, I am so sorry. You and your family will continue to be in my thoughts and prayers. We are all here for you if you need us. Take care and keep the faith.

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Starkers....all you can do is love 'em....

Hang in there....I know you've probably heard it before, but get some councelling for the entire family unit...it helps, believe me. We had a really tough time with daughter # 2who believed it to be great to live out on the streets, panhandle and flop wherever - but hung in there, learnt to stop reacting to the button pushes and how to handle the stress it puts on the whole family. She is now a grown woman, a mother and wife and someone I am proud to call "daughter". It might seem like everything you have said or taught her goes in one ear and out the other, but some of it actually sticks.

Ask your family doctor for names of family therapists...or call the local university Psch department...many have free clinics at the department and usually have a list of clinicians in the area. There is no shame in getting all the help you can. Raising children takes a village.....

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I am so very very sorry for you and your family!

All you can do is love them, they make their own choices, it's not fair,
but it is the way things are.
I speak from experience.
You do the best you are able and the rest is left to faith, hope and love and they will see you through!

This WC family will always be here for you!
We promise, not much consolation, but we are here.

Find what you and your family need to do to make peace with the pain!

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WebGizmos

Join Date 09/2003

+735

Oh man Starkers! I'm sorry to hear this...again. It sounded as though she was coming around this time. And this was assisted by the case worker! Those people really need to butt out and let you work things out, all they do is make things worse than they need to be. I've had personal experience with these people and I don't care for their methods at all.

Keep your chin up.

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Very sad to hear this. A question arises for me, why did the Social worker assist? And did you inform this person's supervisor of the event?

We do not know all the circumstances of your plight, so all we can do is speculate. But I do hope things work out for you. God Bless.

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real sorry to hear that Starkers.

Keep Breathing.

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One day you'll be back Starkers. We will wait.

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I'm sorry to hear it...hang in there, we're all hoping and praying for you and your family

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1845

I've never had much time/opinion for those 'official' meddlers in family affairs. They are the social equivalent of heritage advisors in my game....people who have effectively created their own industry and reason for being.

More often than not, the law's an ass, and those working with in the system are asses, too.

Keep your fingers crossed...that reason will out....

Eventually....

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HG_Eliminator

Join Date 07/2002

+354

starkers.. all you can do is be there...more in likely she will need to find out for her self, the truths of the world.. in general,popular society has taught our children to rebel and look upon the authorative figures as fools and to "old to understand"...tis sad but, usually only after they have lived what we have told them would happen will they start "hopefully" to see that their elders werent just blowing smoke....

you may have to cut the "cash" strings and only offer emotional support.... to often will the child return home and try to "falsely" reconsile if they feel they can wrangle another sum of cash out of their hopeful parents wallets.....while im not fully aware of your exact circumstances...I have watched over the years many friends and family get sucked in to the.. "teen rebel with no means of supporting themselves syndrome"...useing their parents hopes of "getting the child back home" as a way to drain their folks bank accounts and carry on with their rebelious ways. sometimes after all the "giving" love has been shrugged off, the only thing that sticks is "tough" love.

il offer you advise that i offered to a friend of mine who was having this kind of problem with his teenage son. (in case you are experiencing the same thing as he was )

Remember..when a child moves from the home at the age of legality (18) in most areas. a parents financial duty has been expounded, save college Etc. UNLESS the parents feel the child should be rewarded or helped... ( at this point in the game the parents owe the child NOTHING, except love) ...

if a underage child has run away or the child habitually runs away after getting some cash "or whatever was offered for the return".. then only the bare necessities should be offered upon the next "home coming". PERIOD. ...food, shelter and clothes .. and no a $500 gucci bag is not Clothing.."it"s a luxury"......if the child returns, and stays .. then, gradually (over time) "extras/priveleges/luxurys" should be reinstated. (cash for movies,the mall etc.)... this will allow a parent to still give from the wallet .. but make the child realize that the "folks" arent just a "endless cash supply,sitting behind revolving doors"......

good luck Starkers.
i will keep you in my thoughts ...

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Sorry to hear she left again. When social workers play God, everyone loses.

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starkers

Join Date 05/2004

+1153

Many, many thanks to all of you, for all the thoughts and best wishes, the hopes and prayers you've so kindly offered during this difficult time. My wife and I appreciate it so much and send our love and best wishes to each and every one of you.

Unfortunately, I've had very little sleep in the last 4 days and must retire to bed.
However, I note there were some thought and questions....shall return to answer those later...etc.

And Bichur, no worries mate...continual breathing's a New Years resolution

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starkers

Join Date 05/2004

+1153

Apparently a dispute with the department hostel management arose Dec 23 over where she would spend Christmas....Tanka's idea, with the 28 yo at his sister's....their idea, it was either with us or she'd remain there. The upshot is that she took off to be with him...the case worker did not inform us or police until Dec 30.

On Dec 30, the case worker brought Tanka here to collect the rest of her things...the story being that she was placing her in a safe & supervised department facility.
BULLSHIT! She actually took her to an address where 2 single men live....clearly an inappropriate environment. New Years Eve we get a call...she is clearly intoxicated and behaving badly....sounds over the phone suggesting a drunken orgy, several other men and inappropriate goings on.
When I eventually reached the case worker after hours, the answer was: "What do you expect me to do about it?"
My reply: " Get some prosthetics, because your jackboots are gunna get amputated at the knees once I've informed the Minister!" Word is, she is facing some very serious disciplinary action that may result in imprisonment for contributing to the reckless endangerment and corruption of a minor....drugs were also involved.

Tanka came home on New Years Day, full of promises to behave, etc, etc. She stayed 2 days and took off again...we haven't seen her since, but it was confirmed the case worker took her back to that address....text message from Tanka via landline, caller id verifying her location.

Bloody red tape and departmental enquiries....could be months before this case worker is dealt with. In the meantime, she is facilitating even worse from Tanka, and a senior police officer today confimed (independant of welfare services issues) she is facing serious charges and will be taken into custody when the various arms of the Justice Dept get their acts together. Oh well, I did try to tell her, and that it could have been fixed before it got to that.....not my fault if she's too pig headed and stubborn to retract a pack of lies a certain Supreme Court Judge will not tolerate. Insiders say that he's an absolute stickler for the law (a real bastard) and perjury, etc, charges and WILL result in a conviction = she'll be 16 by then and tried as an adult.

I/we tried and tried, but you can only lead a horse to water.... It most assuredly is out of our hands now. The love is still there, naturally, but we've had a gutful of trying to help somebody who won't be helped. In the process of it all, I've had two minor strokes due to stress, my wife has had heart problems, so now it is time for us to move on...we have no power/influence over the outcome/consequences Tanka must now face. At least if we look after ourselves, there's a good chance we can be there for her, if and when.....

As for moving on....there's a heck of alot of ocean surrounding Tasmania, so the wife and I are relocating to a seaside town....fresh start...bye,bye suburbs...hello beachside holiday home.....HELLLooooo fresh oysters, cos I can't afford viagara

As for other priorities....must be fish in them thar waters....my only stresses then.....the ones that got away.....getting a laptop! Seems to me, WC and fishin' go together...well if not before, then I'm starting the trend

And with my Aquarium Desktop, can't see it bein' too far outta place anyhow

I was born with the British Bulldog spirit fully in me, so I hate to give up on anyone/anything, but when the doctor at the hospital said this girl will be the death of you if you don't let go of this now, and my with lawyer friend beside him saying her fate is practically sealed, I figured I had no choice but to do as they advised. It hurts like hell, but there's a better chance that I'll be around for her when the time comes...and maybe, just maybe, she'll feel the sudden loss of support, etc, and rethink her situation. Not exactly the intended reverse psychology, being cruel to be kind situation, but the same (positive) result would be a Godsend....as in, a voluntary 'I've learnt my lesson and want to go home and do the right thing' could very well save her bacon.

And you hit the nail right on the head, Jafo....a group of uni students got together with some Golden Books, decided they were qualified child experts, went to uncle Minister for funding, then created themselves a bureaucracy to help pass the time and collect a salary.....called it Family Services. Misnomer, however, there are no 'services'....needs to be renamed...Dept of Family Interference.

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And you hit the nail right on the head, Jafo

Starkers, I appreciate your situation and can't say much about it since I don't know all the facts, so don't take anything personally.

What I will say is "Jafo" perception, although supportive, in general is wrong, as is my natural instinct regarding the social system. Mind you, I have a decidedly different view when it comes to the common thought process of "Jane doe" social worker. She holds a job that most would be miserabe at since seeing the final outcome is almost never experienced. Judgement and boundaries are not often founded in much, control isn't a word in their personal vocabulary or job description and parents often rescind what's best or cause added problems at every juncture. So, their intent has to be the real measure .

My wife is a senior LCSW holding a leadership roll at a live-in facility for troubled adolescents, age range 8-18 years and deals with social services daily in some fashion or another. Their kids come from a variety of home environments, put there by social services, a school system or fed-up parents, some looking for relief. My wife's on 24/7 so indirectly I hear of the systems pitfalls and stories, including the parents roll. You can't imagine how often I ask myself if social services didn't exist what then. That's when I thank the liberal system for presenting the costly social services programs and all those folks willing to take on unappreciated rolls.

Every parent wants results, yet they want no part when it comes to applying tuff love boundaries which exacerbates and lengthens the process. Parents constantly ask themselves why but never face the answers, so they blame social workers for not fixing their child quickly. The part that drives me bonkers is the kids in her facility are there because their parents don't take parenting seriously. Most know of tough love but rejected it in favor of idealisms or the best one, a need to be liked as a friend by their children. In either case, as adults they scuff off the 24/7 job of parenting in favor of giving their child excessive freedoms because that's what they wanted as child. Kids are not born knowing what's best for them... They have to be taught by parents about rules, boundaries, right from wrong and judgment because consequences result in some fashion when judgement isn't used. In most cases, thank God for the Dept of Family Interference....

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Well, with Tanka headed for the clink, following her Social Worker there, seems a vacation is needed and well deserved, Starkers!

Moving on is the only thing left. Your health and your wife's health is important, and your doctor likely knows what he's talking about (one always hopes), so get over to the coast! And if you see that little devil that seems to be a good acquaintence of Bugs Bunny, get pictures.

Remember to keep your humor about you, Starkers. Be cool, fish well!

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starkers

Join Date 05/2004

+1153

Titan19 Not to worry mate, I took nothing you said personally...in fact, I found it to be an interesting read. It would seem that your wife is a dedicated person who does the best she can with the available resources, and she is to be commended for her efforts, if only for saving a handful of kids from falling through the cracks. I cannot imagine that it would be easy on you either....hers is obviously a demanding and time consuming occupation, on call 24-7, and you are also to be commended for your patience and support.

However, it would appear things are very much different in your neck of the woods. In mine, the Dept of Families is about as useful as tits on a bull...neither functional or practical. More kids fall through the cracks than not.....as for getting them to act in anyones best interests (children, the family as a whole), got a better chance of finding rocking horse manure or extracting hens teeth.

Try getting a case worker on the phone: "Sorry, so n' so isn't available, she's in a meeting" Wife and I actually went in armed with mobile phone....can see back room through reception window...."Can I please speak with so'n so?"...."Sorry sir she's in a meeting....." Through the reception window we could see her...a whole bunch of 'em laughing, joking, drinking coffee and generally fooling around. Having witnessed that scenario for ourselves, of course our confidence and hopes for Tanka are gonna be sky high. NOT!
And even IF they were discussing actual cases (they weren't), it would have been a pointless waste of time and their breath....may as well have been discussing whether Bush is legitimate or not. The Tasmanian Govt (others too) has amended, repealed abolished laws relating to minors...meaning that the 'former' authorities have become toothless tigers with a govt mandate to meddle in family affairs, etc. The courts will not deal with pre-16 year olds unless they've committed murder/extremely serious offences....meaning that prior to 16, they can run wild and do as they wish because parents have had most disciplinary measures made illegal/punishable by law. My wife and I have been threatened with charges of kidnapping and deprivation of liberty because we removed Tanka from an inappropriate situation/prevented her from attending another. Figure that one out!

The Justice Dept, however, is another kettle of fish altogether. It, being totally independant of Police & Family Depts, with far reaching and much broader powers, has decided that Tanka has become a problem and, in its infinite wisdom, will remand her to a detention centre after considering she is a flight risk with regards to a Supreme Court matter. Considering that she is actually the complainant, therefore chief witness, I/we find it somewhat extreme that they would incarcerate her for an indefinite period...until the matter is resolved one way or another. She could avert all this by just coming home voluntarily and co-operating with them. We have explained this time and time again, but it's like asking the sun to set in the North/South, etc.

It's said that love has no boundaries, that the love for you child/children is unconditional, but over time, in instances like this, you end up running out of steam, pluck, get up and go, etc. Eventually you have to accept that your love, care and desire to help just has no driving force behind it anymore; and what little you have left to give just evaporates into thin air because there's nobody there to receive it. That's the hardest part! Thing is, I must survive or there's no point to any of it at all....being there for my wife, gotta be able to do that.

Thanks, Scorpio, you're a good man and I appreciate your comments, wisdom and friendship.

We've never met, yet I feel like you're someone I've known and liked for a long time (same with quite a few others here as well).

As for the social worker, she rang yesterday to arrange speaking with us here. HAH!! She really got my dander up when she placed Tanka in an unsavoury environment with alcohol, drugs and fornication going on. Such is my ire, not that I'm normally violent or foul mouthed, and particularly not towards women, I told her that if she puts one @%#&!*$ foot on my doorstep, I'll put her @%#& head through the @%#&!*$ plate glass enclosure...and @%#& the consequences. Bluff must've worked...haven't heard from her since. My lawyer friend says that we're quite within our rights to refuse her, and has contacted the Minister's office on our behalf regarding this waste of space not bothering us again...also to speed up the dept enquiry into her mismanagement/neglect.

Anyhow, tomorrow we go looking for rods, tackle and other fishing paraphenalia. Me thinks, tho, I'd better get me a lifejacket, just in case I fall in. Wife won't need one tho.....got her own floaties

Yeah, we're gonna be okay...and as for Tanka, well she will always have a special place in our hearts and we'll be there to help pick up the pieces when she decides to come around.

All the best to everyone, and thanks for putting up with my rants and letting me vent

Seriously though, thanks for being there, we appreciate it very much.

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Starkers, I couldn't go without your wonderful colloquiams. Your metaphors and rants are truly a treat, sometimes making me forget that you have such troubles, the mirth it inspires in me. I can almost hear the words, and it makes me smile. I do hope you keep the good cheer. Have a rant on me anyday.

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starkers

Join Date 05/2004

+1153

Thanks scorpio! Thing is, even when the chips are down, I still try to keep my chin up and retain some sense of humour....laughter/mirth being the best medicine in many instances. In fact, it's the humour that's helping to keep me sane now...mightn't read that way at times, but wifey hasn't sent for those nice young men in their clean white coats, not yet, anyway.

Tried seriously to tell Tanka that her bad behaviour was about as funny as a fart in church....immediately had to leave the room, saw the funny side of a rip roarer during a sermon, the priest's reaction, and spontaneously burst into laughter. If there's a funny side to something/anything....guarantee I'll find it. Like when I almost cut off my left big toe and the doctor said that I may lose it: " No worries, doc...don't really need it, got one just like it on me right foot."

Latest on Tanka! My wife was earlier informed by someone who had just seen her, that Tanka had been beaten up quite badly...black eyes, bloody nose, fat lip and chipped a chipped tooth. We told her that she was creating enemies with her bad behaviour and attitude. Maybe now she will realise that mum and dad aren't so full of @%$# after all, that the streets are as cut throat as we say they are...and prison is far worse.
In any event, she's taking her lumps, and maybe learning the hard way is the only way. We've put away the cotton wool and taken off the kid gloves. If she's comes to us sick or injured, we drop her off at a hospital; if she needs a bed we drop her off at a refuge; if she's hungry we take her to a soup kitchen. Yeah, that's harsh, but its in compliance with what she said she wanted...the bed she chose to lie in, etc.
In the event of a crisis/emergency, we will respond accordingly, other than that, we're not pandering to or supporting her activities with funding or anything else that assists her to continue as is. It's not that we've given up on her, far from it, the tactics we're using just aren't working so a strategy change is required.
Sooner or later, if the Justice Dept doesn't intervene first, she will become desperate, sincere and repentant enough to want to come home with her tail between her legs, at which point, we will be given the bargaining tools with which to set down reasonable guidelines, rules and what is acceptable behaviour, etc.

In the meantime, however, I'm in trouble with the wife...was practising casting and got a fish hook caught in her best curtains. I tried desperately to placate her by saying that if I tied on some fly fishing accessories. etc, it would make quite a nice decoration...needless to say, she wasn't impressed.

Gonna play it safe next time...googling for a program if I can't get outside

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You are truly an exceptional man! Don't think I could stay sane with all you have gone through. My best wishes and great respect go out to you and your wife.

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Well done, Starkers & the misses! I agree with the removal of kid gloves and all, maybe she'll get an idea. You might try casting out in the yard, just to keep the dwelling to the liking of the misses. Have her roll you and your PC out there! Good luck with googling, no goggling though!

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starkers

Join Date 05/2004

+1153

Thanks, Tapper....tho I don't know about the sane part. Not in an Einstein sorta way, but I think sanity is relative....being that it's relative as to whether or not others think you are. Fortunately, I've not been out in public long enough for anyone to make an informed decision yet.

Nice ta see you again, Scorpio. I'm glad you support the removal of the kid gloves, but we decided in the end not to store away the cotton wool....still need it for the 'mum, dad, I'm broke and need some money' phone calls.

Did the casting thing outside, as advised, but now require extra padding on my puter chair...the hook extraction from my ass is still a little tender

And why's it okay to google but not to goggle? There happens to be a very nice young lady across the street who undresses with her curtains open

.....and I'd sorta like ta have some memory that I too was once young.

I ask you...no, I beg you, please do not deny me the only remaining alternative I have, other than to use ma' stethoscope ta check to see if my heart's still a beatin'

As fer the wife a rollin' me outside...admittedly I had a couple of minor strokes and haven't been 100%, but I'm generally okay now and not seriously impeded in any way, just a little numbness here and there, a few headaches, etc, from time to time. Other than that, I'd be up for the marathon in the Seniors Olympics if I could tear meself away from this here darned puter....WC long enough

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starkers

Join Date 05/2004

+1153

Now I'm REALLY PISSED! The case worker not long ago rang to abuse me/us for not attending to Tanka's medical needs after she was beaten up. We were accused of neglect and a number of other things, prior to my slamming the phone down in her ear.

If the girl had come to us for help, it would have been given....but she didn't and we couldn't assist her, so where does this pathetic excuse for a woman get off accusing us of neglect, etc.

No more though...changed our phone no, made it silent/private so she cannot bother us again that way.

Dunno how high we have to go to get results, but we're going to get 'em one way or another...legally, of course.

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SHE'S GONE AGAIN

it's beyond me now.