Could you allow people to police comments on thier own uploads. Give the author the ability to delete comments on his own skins?

Admin Frogboy: We will never get rid of the rating system. There will always be some mechanism in which skins that people like better than others are distinguished.

As far as the rating system is concerned... there’s your answer.
It doesn't appear that the rating system is going to change.

^^Gabriel.. but is it worth dealing with the headaches, the insults

The real issue here was the negative comments being made and the rip accusations. A moderator should have stopped that quickly and the comments should be removed. If anyone believes that their work was plagiarized they should contact a site moderator or admin instead of posting a comment.

from my experience so far...it hasn't been rude comments that have gotten to me...it's the endless requests for different features (larger fonts, different color, compact start menu's) that never end. what i've come to find out is that you have to make something for yourself and understand that sharing it with others is just that...sharing. i think alot of us get caught up in making something that will get a good ratings and that others will like (making it for everyone but yourself) and lose sight of it being fun. users have to understand that these skins were not created simply for them and that either they take it or leave it for what it is. unfortunately i think alot of great creations get poor ratings because others are rating on the basis of their own tastes (isn't the color they like, doesn't have a feature they want). if you look at video game ratings...they base their ratings on graphic quality, playability, controlls, intuitiveness...etc. based on the individual ratings you get a blended score. you also find ratings by the site and user ratings in two different catagories. that almost seems to be more fair.

with all of the new features coming out it's becoming more and more difficult to make something worth while. more features equals higher user expectations of what artists are making for free for the love of making something worth sharing. and if what you create does not support those features, your work is considered sub-par. i think the new transparency features will severely limit what we can do down the road...there are only a few ways to utilize transparency. but again, users will expect this.

bottom line is that users need to understand that one of these works is not their own...you either need to use it and love it...or feel free to make your own.

i really hope it does open up and there are cool things that come out of it. i just hope it doesn't become a standard by which everything is measured and you start seeing comments like "yeah it's great and all but it doesn't have transparency so i won't use it". for some reason those are always the comments that bother me the most...the ones that say "your work is great but it doesn't have ______ "

This is one on the most common problems and since not all admins rate skins, the possibility of having a skin rated with enough weight to disregard the drive-by twits is near to none. A couple of days ago I had to email Jafo when 2 mins after I uploaded a skin (and with no download count) it was granted a 1 star. If the rating would've stayed, the skin would have remained hidden and the purpose of loading it would've been lost.

Yes. this is a 'problem' and one that is probably at the real root of all the complaint/s.

Since the Admins/mods are all experienced within the skinning community when they post a rating it's from a basis of experience and understanding, so by and large those whose works DO go through moderation are most likely to receive a valid rating 'opinion'.

However, those whose works are auto-approved are currently exposed to the 'idiot rater' and may suffer accordingly...[as above].

I think it's a simple thing to 'fix'....just give that 'auto 6' its own weight....afterall the person who has attained that level of access 'should' be seen as responsible enough to be submitting works of a reasonable standard....that 'should' be publicly visible to all.

Ratings should ONLY be by 'peers'.....people promoted beyond 'citizen' through experience and skinning contribution, NOT through spending a few quid and 'buying the right'.

Comments should be made optional....each skin submission could be set with 'accept all comments', or 'peer only'.  The latter may mean fewer comments but they will be from the more 'experienced end of the world' and therefore may be more desirable/valid.

A rating system NEEDS to stay....but I'm sure there's some scope for adjustment.

Not every skinner is thick-skinned.  Some just laugh about twit-comments, others are actually hurt by them.

The Number One aim of whatever is done SHOULD be to promote, aid and abet the Skinner.

Wincustomize.com is a "Skinning Site" and therefore its Skinners/Contributors should be placed first within the food chain....a significant distance ABOVE the 'general user/abuser' or even paid-up member.

Just a reminder, though.....anyone having 'grief' from comments, etc....I'm here....

Just a reminder, though.....anyone having 'grief' from comments, etc....I'm here..

As am I.

I would glady forego the ratings privelege to allow apprentice and above to rate skins

Psst.. Starkers ...Check your profile, mate... You are an apprentice

I will only rate or comment on a skin that I've downloaded and applied first, but only then to show my gratitude and appreciation for the work that I'm unable to do myself.

And that, my friends ~is exactly how it should be done if you are not a skinner. Show your appreciation for the hard work put in to a skin.

If you don't particularly like the skin, say why you don't ~but tact and diplomacy are paramount. Common courtesy extended to your fellow site users/skinners/artists etc ..goes a helluva long way.

If you can't be respectful, then you shouldn't be here anyway.

My Mum always says: "If you ain't got something nice to say....." [etc]

I don't think the rating system is the main problem of all of this (thats its own thing and I've yet to see one that truely works right, but I do like the idea of app. and up doing it). We skinners make these things for free... bottom line, we get nothing from it except maybe some slight bragging rights. To get bashed for it is just insane, you don't like it... fine, don't use it. Think its a rip, then report it to an admin (which I've had to do even). I love the idea of either restricting comments with access levels set by the skinner themselves and/or being able to delete comments (maybe at least be able to report them to be deleted). Just my 2 cents... as far as the rating sys... I think the worst problem there is not the system at all but people rating on things other than the skins quality.

Wow. Long thread, much said. I think that Frogboy has exactly the right idea. Skinners need to be able to say "I dont want any comments" and then not have to worry about it. They should also be able to specify: "I dont want any comments from non-skinners". That kind of thing... I think that would reallly help out alot.

I think one solution may be to have a place here on the forums where skinners can easily report this kind of thing and we moderators can jump in and take care of those people. I feel contempt for losers who have nothing better to do than to crap on people who share their hard work with the world.

There is a plan in progress for something like this on IRC. There will be a bit of an announcement if things work out well for it.

As for myself... I can honestly say that I dont look at my own ratings. At all. I dont look for abuse, so I dont see it. If people want to drive-by me, then I'll never notice... thats just my take on it. As for comments, I love them! Comments totally rock, and I love seeing comments from new people to the site, and the 'vets' that have seen so much other work. A pat on the back from them... man, what a boost!

Since I'm a Moderator here on the site now, I guess I get to see a little bit different side of things. More 'front line' protecting, regarding ratings and comment abuse, etc. If there was an easier way for someone to say "Man, I wish someone could take a look at this to see if its abuse", things might be better. Many solutions exist... its just a matter of finding one that will work the best, and implementing it. In the end, I dont think that that is an unreasonable goal. WinCustomize strives to maintain a positive outlook on the skinning community. To do that, a balance must be found between the good of the skinner and the 'freedom' of all the citizens to rate, comment, etc. Lines will need to be drawn, though, that determine who can rate/comment on certain skins. Goal: Skinners choose this, but they CANNOT choose to 'remove' certain comments. (i.e. censoring out improper comments is a worthy goal but not an achievable... removing ones that the skinner 'doesnt like' is not acceptable, and both are not mutually exclusive)

An 'optimised' community will always be the goal... happy skinners, happy users. Compromises must be made, since as soon as you 'remove' the ability to comment, then there will be many POSITIVE commenters lost in that transition as well. In the end, I think that its better to have MORE commenters on your skins than block user ranks due to a few bad apples. These are just my thoughts on the matter.

(P.S.... Gabe, you know I love that Xbox skin... been using it since 10 seconds after it was released! (first download, go me!) )

Ever thought about removing the anonymity of the ratings? If your rating is there to see, in plain sight...by anyone and everyone...wouldn't that stop the malicious raters? You're not going to steal a TV from a store, if you see cameras all around.

Also, Frogboy mentioned only 1% of this site can rate skins...that's not a true average in my opinion. Let anyone who's registered, paying, non-paying, if they have an account...they can rate. This will get you a lot more rates, and more rates will mean a better true rating. Again, with ratings visible...no worries for a malicious one.

Then all we gotta worry about is the people who think their skins are greater than god, and deserve nothing but 10's...meanwhile, anyone who knows better...know's it's mediocre at best. I can see it now..."Citizen X, why did you give me 2 stars? ARE YOU CRAZY??!!! OMGWTFBBQ!"

Ok, maybe visible ratings is a bad idea. Instead, hide the name of the rater, and just show the individual ratings, (4,4,2,4,2) etc. People can police their own work, and see for themselves if there is a malicious rating or not.


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Forgot to answer the original question...

Is it worth it? I spent just over 2 MONTHS making my last skin...thats more than 60 days, 8 weeks, a lot of frickin' time! I do it because I enjoy making skins. I enjoy tweaking the finest details, until I think it's perfect. The benefits of uploading are all bonuses to me. I create the skins because I enjoy doing it...the question, "Is it worth it?" doesn't really come into my mind...

Oh I like that one A67 I like that alot hehehehehe

If you are doing it (or anything else) in order to please others, you will consistently get upset about it, simply because tastes are so different in this world.

Exactly!