joetheblow

Join Date 12/2001

WinCustomize Subscription Totals Won't Make The Goal: What Next?

With the WinCustomize Subscription Not Even At The Half Way Poin... What Now?

We have talked about this extensively on other threads, but now with the moment of truth upon us the question is what will happen to WinCustomize?

If this site was owned by a person and that crash with the server happened, it would have been a lost.

In fact, the idea that this happened only shows how much work is going on behind the scenes of this site that has to be costly and probably more than Frogboy will admit.

After reading the Does Stardock 'need' WinCustomize? thread as well as other threads on the message board/forums, the question is now what is next.

I think the answer will be more extreme that what we been talking about. Will it be a totally subscriber only site period (this would avoid the multiple account thing because even if you do that you will only get so much and view so much)?

What happens to the Wincustomize User Pages? How will un-subscribers be able to view it or download from it?

Will there be whole sections of WinCustomize off limits to outsiders?

I think the immediate response will be no downloads unless your signed in (unless its wallpapers, CursorXP or something) Not sure about the rest. I am guessing with the need for new restrictions that there will be a total site redesign for subscribers.

Personally, I think it is a sad day for all of this come November 1st 2005. The other sites just don't compare. I visited one site of the alternates to WinCusto and my browser crashed because of the pop-up attempts. Can you believe that?

I don't think many people will like the subscriber idea and will think Stardock is leaching off of artists. People will leave probably from what I read of some of the comments. I find that funny since most of the comments of 'leeching of artists' came from people who started off here and got there notoriety due to the 'leeching' of hosting their stuff, keeping it save, and organizing a community around it.

I always said that WinCustomize is a symbiosis between the artist and Stardock. On can not live as well without the other.

But with the restrictions soon to come on its way, what will happen to WinCustomize? What is next?

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how about a general area and a subscribers area?

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I agree Bichur, to much time and effort goes into what is created here at WinCustomize. It should not all be given for free. Most sites I visit have a free section (mostly teasers) and a subscriber section. If you want the really good things you have to pay a fee. Isn't that the way most things in life are? I do not skin yet I am just learning and finding my way around here. But I gladly pay my subscription fee just to see and use the great artwork made for WinCustomize. The price of a subscription is not much for all you get and I feel if people want the great programs and the things that go with them they should pay the small fee. This is the most friendly place to spend some time and to learn from all the great skinners here. Think of all the things you by for the same cost as a subscription that you don't really need. Keep this place going and SUBSCRIBE......

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One should not be able to access Wincustomize if one is not a subscriber.

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One should not be able to access Wincustomize if one is not a subscriber.

I can understand that, but then how do you attract more subscribers if people can't get in to see that it's worth subscribing to? That's why I think a general section where you can see all but only download very little based on either total download size or a few select few skins and the subscribers section where the party is.

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i like the public and members idea. they could see all the skins, themes, walls and the like but only get one of each a month. and get teased with the things members get any time they want!

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The situation should stay as is...but with non-subscribers privileges should be less.

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The reason why I have purchased Object Desktop (and renewed it) and purchased ObjectDock+ is the fact that I have found wincustomize 2-3 years ago and thought using these skins are fun. As time went by, I only use my own ODP skins, and the 60+ WB skins I had are deleted, having no more than 6 skins (perfect ones BTW) installed. Months go by without anything I'd fancy to download.
If wincustomize weren't free, I guess not just a WC subscription, but not even ObjectDesktop will attract people.

I go further. If WC won't be free, people (hmm. me at least) will go to other skin sites to get the skins. The skins that are free work from their authors. To use with software I was paying for. I'm not paying for my webbrowser, why should I pay for my "skin browser"? Or why should I pay for more, if I'm subscribed to another big community, that offers more interesting downloads, less restrictions about the types of galleries, (for example section for my sonyericsson phone themes) and actually the WB skins I download here are uploaded there as well by the same authors.

Well, not for the premium skin I get. It's nice, it's a lot more precise work than 99% of the skins uploaded here. It must have consumed a lot more time to do it to be this perfect than 99% of the skins uploaded here. But it's not my style.

I won't pay for a popupless site neither. What's a popup? I haven't seen many since I've been using firefox prereleases. Should it crash for some strange reason, my sessions are restored.

I stop before this comment is deleted, however none of the benefits listed mean anything to me, I'm not writing this to insult Stardock. I love the applications, I will renew my ObjectDesktop subscriptions, but IMHO this is not how the site should be kept alive.

What about financing the site with ads? (Not that I would see them. My browser must have a bug. It does not download ads.

But people who get attracted by the lack of popups will download them.)
What about giving up WC hoping that Stardock apps will sell without it?
What about ganging up with DevianART or other skin sites?

Don't get me wrong. I respect the people from Stardock. I respect (and pay for) their work. I respect their so far successful community building approach. I respect that they host my other favorite, samurize.com. I just don't understand whining about a business that --observing out of context-- generates loss.

Again. Don't get me wrong. I'll feel sad myself if WC would be down. But I won't feel guilty.

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I can understand that, but then how do you attract more subscribers if people can't get in to see that it's worth subscribing to?

That is why I think there is going to be a major site design change. The site is gotta show how or what your missing if your not a subscriber.

I still think some downloads should be allowed, maybe a special password system for those who want to share their work with friends (for the links).

One problem I see is that there are truely 4 levels of people here. The passing by crowd, the signed in crowd, the OD/Stardock crowd and the subscriber crowd.

What do people just breazing by see? The first page of everthing? Can they download? What if they go to the user page sub-urls? How much can they view from there?
What do people who sign in and create an account see? Wil they still be able to work their way up to a statis where they can see more if they contribute skins or help in the forums?
What of those who bought a Object Desktop? Does the site become no more to them than someone who saw the site while browsing the internet and signed in? Are they going to be redirected to sites that crash their browser with pop-ups? if OD subscibers or no different than a sign-in user, does this mean that Stardock wil limit the amount of money it spends on WinCusto? What happens if another failure happens?
Subscribers... what can I say? They see everything.

I think this is going to be the topic of the skinning world personlly. When you look at the other sites, and even Deviant Art and its Jark episode... what does all of this mean? Even Deskmod went down the tubes because of funding, bandwidth and database situations. Is this the future of the skinning sites?

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To me, this presents a problem for StarDock. OD subscribers having this wealth of resources can not be undervalued. The reason why I keep re-subscribing to OD is because of the content. I aalready know the product is good. I don't struggle to keep re-upping on other items in the skin world until I know I can buy it otherwise i would just wait. But OD? I miss it because new skins use new dev builds.

I CAN'T OPEN DESKTOPx THEMES BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE THE LATEST SUBSCRIPTION!!

I couldn't pull the money and let it subside, but with new widgets and themes... even Icon Packager is back...

I don't know how many people renew because of the extensive library and messageboard as well as the new article writing abiliies (with tutorials!!!)

Lets face it, other skin sites can't handle the traffic, don't have the library or the community network. I just don't see how WinCustomize is going to separate the OD subscriber from the WinCusto Subscriber without an overhaul on how the site operates.

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TYCUS

Join Date 09/2004

+43

just one question..., there going to keep going with the subscription contest?

-=TYCUS=-

(Happy birthday to me!)

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Join Date 10/2001

+21

there going to keep going with the subscription contest?

Hopefully YES .... !!!!!

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Join Date 10/2001

+21

And A Very Happy B-Day from me ... !!!!

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How many dang birthdays are there???
LOL

I wish WinCustomize had a community calender, inter-site messaging and a place to go to the bathroom.

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TYCUS

Join Date 09/2004

+43

thanks BX!!!

-=TYCUS=-

(HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO ME!)

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Lantec

Join Date 07/2003

+346

I can understand that, but then how do you attract more subscribers if people can't get in to see that it's worth subscribing to?

I mentioned this before but I think a trial subscription of say 60 days should come with your OD purchase. After that you must make the decision to continue or be cut-off.

As far as the shareware versions go, they need to be time crippled. Give the shareware a half dozen 5 star skins and a version that dies in 30 days. If they like what they've seen they can purchase the product and get their trial subscription.....

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My $0.02... I think that blocking people from uploading would kill some of the ingenuity. There are many excellent skins and items from a few and many mediocre items from a lot. Then, every once in a while, you run across the excellent item from an unknown or a first timer. Personally, I think WC is excellent and fun and for $20 for a two year subscription, that is truly a no-brainer. That's why I resubscribed even though I'm only half way through my renewal from last year. However, I think that rewarding uploaders, even though they might not be subscribers, would be a good idea to flesh out some new ideas. Frogboy and the rest of the power-folks can judge what kind of reward would be appropriate. Best of luck.

By the way, are there any Object Dock programmer types that would consider doing a project for me? I'm willing to pay!

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My testimonial or opinion, whichever! I've hung around here since 2000, enjoyed the free version of Windowblinds, downloaded a bunch of blinds, wallpaper, etc. Two things happened on my end. First I got a "Used" computer capable of running XP, enough processing power I could run a few more of Stardocks apps, which leads to more skins, icons, well you get the picture. Now my conscience started getting to me, the more I understood what it takes to operate a place like this and attract the many talented artist willing to share in this community, I felt truly compelled to support this place. So in 2002 Icoughed up the money for ODNT (and yes I had to stash a few bucks each week to come up with the money). Within a month or two I went for the subscription to WinCustomize. I'm sure there are some people that $20.00 isn't in the budget, yes the kids have to eat before you skin your windows, that's the priority. Don't wine, just to the right thing for your budget, skinning is a luxury not a necessity. The others that are suffering from the "post dot com bust" get real, even bad advise from a financial planner cost money! Bottom line, If you want to enjoy what there is available here, become a member of the community that helps to support the site. For me, knowing I help with my subscription, I feel like I'm more a member of the community instead of feeling like a bum hanging out on a park bench waiting for someone to forget and leave there lunch by my bench.

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Hi Reppiks,

I respect your opinion, but I think you're wrong in a couple of things, maybe the metaphors you have written are just not right.

The basic idea - paying some subscription makes you feel member of the community - this is all right. You will pay, hundreds will pay, hundreds will not pay. However my metaphor for this would be that I go to a restaurant, order a decent lunch, eat it, enjoy it, pay for it, and then before leaving the waiter tells me, that now that I have payed for the food, I have to pay for coming into the restaurant as well.

From my point of view, if I have to subscribe to access the otherwise free content that I use with my otherwise payed software, however there are 2 WB skins a year I download, neither I will subscribe to WC, nor will I renew my OD subscription.

The community feeling is great. Helping out --I do it regularly-- feels great. Paying to be able to keep up the operation of a community is more than acceptable.

But WC is a business driver for Stardock. It's not a nursery school. They do it to keep up Stardocks business, to keep up their job. (Even if someone might volunteer for some reason, there's a reason otherwise noone would do it.) They do their job very well BTW, I enjoy their products very much and enjoy WC. But I'd be more willing to pay 10 bucks more for OD every year and keep the download area free, than paying for the applications, and paying for the site that "sells" the product I have already purchased.

BTW does it make any sense to advertise Stardock products in banners on WC? The returning visitors know Stardock products, read the news entries about them. Once I got fed up with multiplicity ad, I started to filter out stardock ads on WC pages.
Why can't those banners used for paid advertisments, and finance the operations from its income? Everyone wozuld understand ads are needed. I'm not saying I wouldn't admit that operations of WC is costly, I just doubt I should be paying for that.

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PurrBall

Join Date 02/2003

+23

and beer.

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I have this idea I am probably gonna tryout on my skinning website.

Slow the connection down for non-subscribers, let them DL 1MB in 1minute
and for the subribers ofcourse the fastest speed available...

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From my point of view, if I have to subscribe to access the otherwise free content that I use with my otherwise payed software, however there are 2 WB skins a year I download, neither I will subscribe to WC, nor will I renew my OD subscription.

I don't think any of this has to do with your current usage patterns on WC. The changes aren't caused by someone like yourself who is a customer of Stardock, and downloads very limited content from WC. The problems are caused by the people who you see posting sometimes who have either illegal copies of Stardock apps or they are using the Shareware versions and download every wallpaper, WB skin, IP theme and DX object that is released. I hope that WC remains free to use to people like yourself who aren't trying to take advantage of the situation but there has to be something put in place for the people who believe that everything in the world is free.

I do agree that there aren't a lot of compelling reasons to subscribe to WC but I do it because I download A LOT, I mean I've downloaded gigs of stuff from this site, and because of that and because for me the subscription is a good deal even without extra perks I do subscribe.

I personally like the idea of only giving non-subscribers and non-customers a very limited view of the site, show them the thumbnails of the subscriber content but only allow them to download certain items. Also, add pages with nothing but an add on them between when they click on download and when the download actually starts, make them look at that add for 10 seconds, if they have an Ad-blocker that's fine but make them stare at a blank page for 10 seconds, or have a text version of the ad on the page also. I mean, make it painful to get the content. I really only think that this should apply to people who are truly feeloading from the site, if the person has purchased an SD product but not a WC subscription they should not get the same treatment. It seems like there's this push to alienate even SD customers. No offense, but someone who paid $50 for OD should not have the same hassle as someone who feels Shareware is the *free version* of a program. I'd also suggest time bombing the shareware versions. It's obviously too easy to use the shareware version indefinitely because there are lots of people who admit to doing it on these message boards. It's pretty clear people don't get that Shareware means "limited time use", and if they don't get that they won't buy your product no matter how much they like it.

Well, I've rambled enough now but I do hope this can be handled well because I love coming to this site and I can't imagine a future without WC as a part of my daily routine.

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let them DL 1MB in 1minute

if you can get me a DL speed of 1 MB in 1 minute, I'm yours

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Chasbo

Join Date 01/2005

+1045

Whatever it takes. If Brad cannot make a go of it without the subscriptions then he needs to make this a subscriber site. Simple. It's his business and he can do what he wants with it. Those of us who do not subscribe but have purchased Stardock software will feel ripped off. Does purchasing Stardock software help pay for the site? If it does than I'd say we would be ripped off.

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SKoriginals

Join Date 03/2005

+68

Well, I was alot like Reppiks in how things worked out for me.

I'm sure the biggest problem WC has is browsing, uploading and downloading. Maybe there should be restrictions on the uploading and downloading. Already non members can only see skins rated 3.5+ stars. I think there should be tougher upload approval restrictions. Which would cause a better database of skins and less of them. And tougher approvals would help across the board making WC "THE" place to put your skin (even more so than it is now) with less skins meaning less browsing and less downloads. Maybe also get rid of alot of the very low rated and outdated skins.

Maybe susbscribers only should have access to skins rated 4.5+ stars for download. But that would boil down to the fact that there are alot of other places to get the same skins for free. Leaving it up to the artist themselves on what they do, meaning they would have to restrict themselves. This sorta leads me to another point. The skin artist do as much for this site as Stardock themselves. Without great artist out there creating skins then what would really be the purpose. Maybe if WC gave some sort of benifit to the really good artist (determined by either Dl's or ratings or votes or whatever). Otherwise what reason would the artist have in doing such a thing? I think if WC did do some things to benifit the artist themselves then maybe the artist would in turn be more willing to create WC exclusive skins.

These are all just rambling ideas I have had, nothing more.

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Does purchasing Stardock software help pay for the site?

I'm guessing it's where part of the budget comes from.

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