WinCustomize Subscription Totals Won't Make The Goal: What Next?

joetheblow

Join Date 12/2001

WinCustomize Subscription Totals Won't Make The Goal: What Next?

With the WinCustomize Subscription Not Even At The Half Way Poin... What Now?

We have talked about this extensively on other threads, but now with the moment of truth upon us the question is what will happen to WinCustomize?

If this site was owned by a person and that crash with the server happened, it would have been a lost.

In fact, the idea that this happened only shows how much work is going on behind the scenes of this site that has to be costly and probably more than Frogboy will admit.

After reading the Does Stardock 'need' WinCustomize? thread as well as other threads on the message board/forums, the question is now what is next.

I think the answer will be more extreme that what we been talking about. Will it be a totally subscriber only site period (this would avoid the multiple account thing because even if you do that you will only get so much and view so much)?

What happens to the Wincustomize User Pages? How will un-subscribers be able to view it or download from it?

Will there be whole sections of WinCustomize off limits to outsiders?

I think the immediate response will be no downloads unless your signed in (unless its wallpapers, CursorXP or something) Not sure about the rest. I am guessing with the need for new restrictions that there will be a total site redesign for subscribers.

Personally, I think it is a sad day for all of this come November 1st 2005. The other sites just don't compare. I visited one site of the alternates to WinCusto and my browser crashed because of the pop-up attempts. Can you believe that?

I don't think many people will like the subscriber idea and will think Stardock is leaching off of artists. People will leave probably from what I read of some of the comments. I find that funny since most of the comments of 'leeching of artists' came from people who started off here and got there notoriety due to the 'leeching' of hosting their stuff, keeping it save, and organizing a community around it.

I always said that WinCustomize is a symbiosis between the artist and Stardock. On can not live as well without the other.

But with the restrictions soon to come on its way, what will happen to WinCustomize? What is next?

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I do hope this can be handled well because I love coming to this site and I can't imagine a future without WC as a part of my daily routine.

Well said, Apprentice f0r3. I, too, visit on a daily basis, and dl a large amount from not only WC but other sites as well.I hope to see WC alive and well far into the future, and try to keep my membership accts paid up, also. I wonder if we could have a "Donate-O-Meter" as some sites have,say on only the Home page, showing maybe "This Month's Goal", "Amount So Far", "Amt Needed". I know, for me, such a widget on a site I want to support often motivates me to chip in a couple of bucks now and then... .

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I've subscribed to WC since it's beginning and will continue to do so. Mine doesn't run out for another 7 months at which time I'll renew for sure. Kudo's to Markdotnet for renewing early but IMHO the situation re non-subscribers needs to be resolved. Buying an extra might be good for Stardock (and Brad) in the short run but doesn't resolve the issue.

Like most people here, I think that non-subcribers should be given a preview of everything without being able to download more than a minimal amount - if at all. Sure some people will be ticked. Heck we still get complaining when these people hit the 50 mg limit. So they go away? So what? It's not like they've contributed anything but escalated costs.

Sure skins can be downloaded from elsewhere. Don't want to pay, then by all means go elsewhere. Isn't that what free marked economy is all about? The reason I'm here (and I think most of us are the same) is simply because this site has the best available stuff with the least effort to find it. And the community, can't forget the community.

Likewise with the forum - no subscription means you can read but not post. Everyone gets to make their own decisions regarding how they spend their time and money. If paying for WC subscription doesn't suit - so be it.

Those with a OD subcription might have a middle ground with some downloading - a limit of some sort. After all, when you bought WB etc. you bought the program with a number of skins included. Did you really buy unlimited access to more skins or did you buy a program?

It's time to take a hard line. Stardock raises this issue every 6 or 8 months. If it's not just a marketing ploy (sell more subscriptions) then bite the bullet and make the hard decision.

(what jerk wrote all that?

)

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After all, when you bought WB etc. you bought the program with a number of skins included. Did you really buy unlimited access to more skins or did you buy a program?

The skins are free (like in free speech, not in free beer

) work of the respective authors. If they upload it for free, I download them for free. Whether on WC or other places. If there won't be free sites, I won't download them. This is what I thought when bought OD.

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Fuzzy Logic

Join Date 05/2002

+493

The skins are free (like in free speech, not in free beer

'Free' as you call it, involves someone spending thousands per week paying for bandwidth and servers, maintenance etc. It's freeloaders like you this site needs to get rid of. You really piss me off

After reading that, it's clear now is the time to cut off all non-subscriber downloads. Let people get their freebies elsewhere and keep this site for people who appreciate it.

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NightTrainthedark

Join Date 07/2003

+255

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is that fact that if freeloaders are completely blocked out, the site traffic will decrease immensly. Therefore reducing costs to run the site. It will be interesting to see. Maybe the site will be closer to self sufficient. Doubtful, but it will be interesting.

I still think that the most important elements in any of this are the Skinners. They need to upload Wincustomize only, premium skins help, but what does that do for resubscribers? Currently, as is, resubscribing doesn't have any benefits. It is mostly a donation to the site. Sure you get your wincustomize site but I don't think that matters to many.

Done for now.

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if you can get me a DL speed of 1 MB in 1 minute, I'm yours

Are you on dial-up? What's your avarage in downloading 1MB?

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What's your avarage in downloading 1MB?

can't tell my sundial broke.

yes I'm on dialup...my download speed varies but usually it's between 2-4 kb

took 33 hrs +/- to dl SP2

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I worry about one thing: if all freeload traffic is cut and the site becomes largely a 'subscriber only' affair, would that mean that it would become less attractive to the average skinner? Am I correct to assume, that part of the attraction of this site to the great skinners here is that they are able to reach a lot of people and optain high download rates?

I think we need to find a middle way here.

First, I don't think that OD-subscribers should get limited downloads on this site. Brad mentioned somewhere that since Stardock knows exactly how many Customers they have, they know that only a fraction of the daily traffic is actually caused by Stardock customers and subscribers. Its the Shareware/Warez users that are the real problem. Also, I can kind of foresee that people would get pissed off if they are made to subscribe immediately after they press a "get more skins" button in their newly purchased software.

Second: I totally agree with limiting non customers or subscribers. Why should a warez user be able to post a help thread on the support forum? (of course that would require a "no support" stance for shareware versions).

Third: How about a combined subscription/OD-renewal option? That could be ten bucks more ($44 instead of $34) than the current OD subscription and would include unlimited access to WC for another year. The old OD renewal could still be available, but with a warning that downloading would be limited to 100MB (or maybe less) per renewal.

Posted via WinCustomize Browser/Stardock Central

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TYCUS

Join Date 09/2004

+43

33hrs!!!!!!

-=TYCUS=-

(So, do you want some candy for this Halloween...?)

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It's freeloaders like you

I can't leave this unanswered.

All I'm asking you is to read at least this comment.

To start with:
According to todays official policies I'm rather an appreciated community member, a level 4 user, than a freeloader.
(Level 4: Current Stardock customer. These are users who have either purchased Object Desktop Network or some other Stardock product (Stardock is WinCustomize's sponser) within the last 2 years. These users get all the benefits of a registered user plus:
* Unlimited File Downloads. Say good-bye to file limitations! No more annoying messages preventing you from getting your download to work.) Kind words. No bad languange.

Then:
In my comments I'm writing arguments why I think mandatory subscription is a wrong solution. Admitting that operating such a site must cost a fortune.
In return I get answers like: You're sucking the blood of the community, get lost.

Furthermore:
I write, that I'm paying for the applications, and I'm stating that authors upload their work for free. (By means that THEY won't get paid.)
In return I get answers like: Why do you think bandwidth and servers are free? You don't appreciate us.

Then:
I write that if I MUST subscribe for 20USD to download skins, I guess I rather consider stopping paying 50USD to renew my OD subscription, and I ask whether this is not a bigger threat by introducing such a new policy.
In return I get answers like: we will have to shut down the site because of you, shame on you.

And of course there are the always shiny happy people like: it's nice to join a community, I subscribe every 3 months. Which is their business.

To be serious, I myself feel fed up wit the "go away you parasite, you won't get anything for free" comments, without getting a single comment on my arguments.

I don't even know what am I doing here, this is not funny at all.

I beg for a relevant comment on my arguments from "the other side".

Finally forgive my poor english, I'd check back for answers before leaving wincustomize.
BRGDS
ethsza

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gef

Join Date 08/2001

+15

I think that non-subcribers should be given a preview of everything without being able to download more than a minimal amount - if at all.

I agree.

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TYCUS

Join Date 09/2004

+43

we will have to shut down the site because of you, shame on you.

God!!! ...who tell you that?!?!?

He/she has to think before oppenning his/her mouth!!!!

-=TYCUS=-

(So, do you want some candy...?)

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took 33 hrs

lol.. why don't you upgrade to a faster internet?? I would go crazy if things took so long..

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So, do you want some candy...?

Hey spanking is ex officio assigned to Fuzzy Logic...find another hobby.

Just kidding Tycus...oh and Happy Birthday...

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starkers

Join Date 05/2004

+1153

I think there should be tougher upload approval restrictions. Which would cause a better database of skins and less of them. And tougher approvals would help across the board making WC "THE" place to put your skin (even more so than it is now) with less skins meaning less browsing and less downloads

Sorry, but I do not agree with this line of thinking. Many subscribers are also budding or newbie skinners, and to introduce a stricter moderation policy would not only alienate these people from the site, but also discourage them from practicing their craft and contibuting more to the site as a whole. The great skinners weren't just born that way, they had to begin somewhere, and there's no better place than WC to gain the exposure, support and encouragement that can inspire and possibly lead to eventual greatness. Obviously, there has to be some form of moderation to ensure posted skins are of a workable and acceptable level, but when one mans trash is another mans treasure, it shouldn't be that a select few can decide for the majority what's pleasing or otherwise.

The problem for Stardock and Wincustomize is not so much the large skin libraries or the skinners who upload their works, but rather the non-contributing freeloaders who advocate forever freeware/pirateware and take everything for free. Those people are the true drain on resources, and for most of us, the new restrictions can't come soon enough because they'll simply piss off and go bludge elsewhere, rather than be fair minded and subscribe.

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Well I am new to all this. I admit that the software I have is not mine cause I am trying it from a friend. I found it interesting and it was much easier to use his rather than DL a trial copy. I only have Dial-up ATM. I have learn with time that DLing software for free is a pain cause first you run the risk of getting caught, I have learn that programs tend to access the internet without you knowing it. Second, costumer support, you just can't get help when you have an illegal copy. Third, updates, updating is so much more easier thru the web but scary when you know yours is illegal.

So I look foward to getting my own copy of every software from StarDock. They are all amazing. I do how ever have the problem of not having credit and therefor no credit card to use on the internet. I am also not currently able to spend money on non-necesary items, such as this software, so it might be a while before I can save up enough for, say, Object Desktop (which I want so bad).

When I started out here, about a few months ago I never figured I had a limit to DLing. Man I should read more often. I knew about the subscription but I figured it was to access more better stuff and so far, being a newb, was happy with what I was getting. It now seems worth subscribing to get the better stuff and more but once again my financial position stops me from doing so. I would hate to think that I will not be able to access this site anymore for I found it so great and a great software as well for a PC fanatic like me. I can understand if my subscription or what ever it is called was canceled after this post I can understand and I appologize completely. I hope everything goes well for you guys and thanx for allowing me the pleasure of enjoying such a great site like this one, which BTW pointed me to another great site, joeuser.com which I like and enjoy writing and reading at. Thanx again and good luck.

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One last thing, because of this place and all the great skinds for every program I have seem I am looking into learning how to use PSP and Adobe Photo Shop so that I can make my own skins. I was hoping one day to be able to upload my own skins. I finally found something I want to do as a hobby and I am researching alot to learn as fast as I can. I don't wish to be know as a freeloader. It was not my intention, I figured that's how it was, kinda like a P2P site for skins. People made it for free and WC was the place to share it. Once again my bad, I appologize.

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Second, costumer support, you just can't get help when you have an illegal copy

just a little tip, but you are using an illegal copy right now. While it may seem OK because your friend bought it both you and he are actually in the wrong. While you saved yourself a bit by stating you plan on buying them, but I'd be careful about admitting you're using someone else's software because it's easier than following the legal path.

I do how ever have the problem of not having credit and therefor no credit card to use on the internet

There are lots of ways to buy the software without a credit card online. Buying online is the fastest way to get the software but other alternatives do exist. Have your friend buy it on his credit card (if he has one) and then just pay him back.

I'm not going to assume I know anything about your financial position and I do know that $20 can be a lot of money for some people so I'm not going to be the annoying car salesman who's only looking to make the sale, but I can tell you the subscription is a great investment. You might also just consider buying at least 1 of the apps you are currently *trying*. It will remove your download limit, at least in the near term, and it will give you that warm fuzzy that comes from knowing you're helping out where you can. Then, just start tossing quarters and dimes into a jar whenever you can and you'll have $20 in no time and you can get another app or a subscription. I'd of course suggest OD but it's a bit more expensive but well worth it!

Good luck, and remember, technically you're using the software illegally so don't be surprised if someone else comes along and is pretty brutal about your admitting to using someone else's software because it was easier than downloading the Shareware versions...

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Well just to make it clear I am simply testing it. I am not keeping the copy for the simply reason of not getting my friend in trouble. It does sound easy to be able to save a penny here and there, but it's not always that easy. Still I do look foward to getting OD ASAP. Maybe there are other ways of buying stuff online. I am a bit uneducated as to how. I don't have a bank account and I don't wish to use someone elses credit for my benefit cause it always comes back to bit you. I should know it has happened before with my brother.

I know I can expect a wave of insults and hatred. I figured if I was honest it would not be as bad but it's not something I can get away with. I was only trying to be honest when I realized the dilema WC is going thru with people like me "freeloading". I never figured that was what I was doing and am stopping from doing so. As I said it was not my intention to be part of the problem. I always look foward to help in any way I can and I gladly offer any help I can give if it will help me stay in this great community. If it is not enough, once again I understand and will take whats coming to me. I still have joeuser.com, I hope.

Hopefully I will be able to return (if I am restricted) and be part of the community as a member not a freeloader. If anyone understands that free doesn't always mean free it's me. Little by little I have learned to find free options to some software but getting it was not easy, which is where the not completely free part comes in. I'm sure most here know what it's like to download 75 MB of software thru a dial-up.

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NightTrainthedark

Join Date 07/2003

+255

DJBandit
UserID: 1139447
Member Since: 4/28/2004 12:12:45 AM
Last Visited: 10/26/2005 2:47:11 PM
Access Class: Citizen (1)
User Level: Visitor (2)

You passed the trial period well over a year ago.

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DJBandit
UserID: 1139447
Member Since: 4/28/2004 12:12:45 AM
Last Visited: 10/26/2005 2:47:11 PM
Access Class: Citizen (1)
User Level: Visitor (2)

How is that possible if I only signed on about a month ago or so? I don't get it. Must be another person.

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TYCUS

Join Date 09/2004

+43

..find another hobby.

Maybe you should tell me which hobby would became the best:
-creating skins
-living comments in others skins and post at the forum
-listening my little bird
-cooking my little bird
-giving my little bird to my cat...
-stay still until you put your answer...

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If there won't be free sites, I won't download them. This is what I thought when bought OD.

I hear you. I was told I could come get what I wanted when I bought OD. I am an OD & WC subscriber. I subscribe to OD to get the new versions. I come here because of the sheer number of skins and the forums. I subscribe here because I would hate to see the site disappear, which would force me to either: go to other sites and have to deal with a lot of crap (skins, ads, spies, trojans, installers, etc) - or - learn how to create my own {and I have no original artistic talent

}. In a sense, I am a freeloader. I have no other premium skins other than the 3 I now have due to subscriptions. I prefer free stuff. I like free stuff. Free stuff doesn't hurt my wallet. I don't get upset when I don't use or delete free stuff for whatever reason.

Personally, the way I see it: If I did not subscibe here (being a customer/OD subscriber) I would get upset if y'all berated me. I was basically told being a customer and OD subscriber I was more than welcome to come get stuff. Seems to me part of my OD subscription should be applied here.

I do not feel obligated to subscribe here since to me this place is part of Stardock - I subscribe here because I want to.

I have no idea what I'm actually trying to say. It's just that based on the information I and others were given when we purchased OD, I don't really think it's fair to call any OD subsciber a freeloader.

Odds are this won't make sense. I'm at work and actually started this about 3.5 hrs ago and I keep getting interrupted.

You may now trash the Troll

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@DJBandit:

email me: Email

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All I can say is that I would have a VERY hard time justifying paying $60 for ObjectDesktop when I wouldn't have any skins to use it with unless I paid an extra $20 for Wincustomize! I have been saying often that I really don't like the style of the vast majority of premium suites that come with OD, so then there is no point to me buying OD if there are no skins to use it with.

So unless Stardock plans to start making lots and lots of OD-only skins to make up for the lack of free ones on Wincustomize, I can't see many people being pleased about shelling out $60 to buy OD and then another $20 just to use it.

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