Do you write?

Cyberworld

Join Date 07/2002

Do you write?

...Meaning except E-Mails,skin's code,computer related writing...

Do you write? What you write? You write in a newspaper or magazine? You write articles? Do you write poems? You write short stories or long? Just out of curiosity do you use pens or you are a keyboard addict?

Have fun everybody.

Feel free to express any opinion on the subject of writing...even feel free to share something you wrote and find it really good.

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That is very cool, Bill.

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Thanks, Donna. I know it's a bit weird, but so am I. Now I only hunt with a camera.

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Ummm. yes, Cyberworld, the name comes from my interest in songwriting. I grew up analyzing the Beatles works. Not just the enjoyment I got from listening to their songs, but from a very analytical viewpoint of songwriting, arrangements, production values. But mostly arrangements. I don't think Lennon and MacCartney would have produced the quality of works they did without George Martin. I feel you really need to know how to arrange songs before you can understand their complexity in writing them. Sure, some of the greatest songs ever written are the simplest songs ever written, but those songs come from a very complex understanding of what makes a song unique.

OMG! Don't get me started! Heh! I could go on and on!

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No, Bill. It's not weird at all. I feel your words are an extention of what the modern world can do to us if it suppresses us for too long. Not weird at all.

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Thank you for the link Citizen bootasven....so did you come to any conclusion as to your philosophical questions? I'd be glad to hear it.

Cyberworld - not really any conclusions, its more many possibilities. The one thought I like to throw at people is this one regarding free will:

Basing this idea on the knowledge of physics and the idea that the universe has specific rules, rules that state how all matter and energy within it must interact. Humanity over the centuries has come to understand some, or parts, of these rules. One simple example is the equations of projectile motion. If I throw a ball and understanding the initial conditions of the ball (speed, location, direction), I can use the equations of projectile motion to predict its motion through the air and its landing on the ground. This is very simplistic but illustrates how we can map the rules of the universe, and predict the interactions of objects within the universe.

Now all objects within the universe must follow the rules of the universe, and that includes you and me. Some may say “Hey I’m not just an object!” but in essence we are made of the same "stuff", matter and energy, as the ball in my previous example. Atoms are continually interacting within us, and with the environment around us, and like the atoms of the ball, they must follow the very specific rules of the universe (such as what happens when one hits another, what happens when gravity is applied to them, etc). This of course includes the matter, energy and processes within my brain. The processes that allow us to move, to see, to hear, to feel, to THINK, all must follow the same rules as the matter, energy and processes acting on and within that ball.

As we have mapped simple rules such as projectile motion, it makes sense that all rules, or "the rule" of the universe, no matter how complex, can be mapped into equations. If we can do this, we should be able to use those equations to predict any and all interactions of matter and energy within the universe, including those within ourselves, just as I can predict the outcome of the thrown ball. Of course this goes deeper, my thoughts are generated by the interactions of matter and energy within my brain (basically a very complex network, as far as we know). If I can predict the interactions within my brain I can predict my actions and even my thoughts. If the processes of my mind must follow specific predictable rules of the universe then my thoughts and actions, my “free will!” is not free at all, but is the result of physics; the predictable rules governing the interactions within the universe.

Even writing this post and thinking about how I have or don’t have free will is predictable. This is often very hard for people to wrap their mind around. For some reason, if you follow the physical ideas, this makes sense, but then again it doesn’t. How can my every action not be MY action, but the inevitable actions of the universe?

I wrote this fast so I hope it is clear. Its much easier to explain with speech. I hope you enjoy it. I would like to hear your interpretations and ideas.

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I howl like beasts have done for ages, be it wolf or man. There is no time. Only now. Only this wild nature. Only the night. Only the hunt.

Been under stress lately Bill? Yup must have been,that is what would make a man howl like a beast. That is why wild nature is essential,you can't be suppressed constantly by big-city life or you'll get crazy,all the anxiety,stress and loneliness of the city can drive you to irrational actions. Personally when i'm angry i like to go to the sea and yell at it while throwing rocks!

Nice to see some writing work from you Bill.

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Now I only hunt with a camera.

Show us results! Show as results!

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OMG! Don't get me started! Heh! I could go on and on!

Feel free to express any opinion 47songs. The trivia you provided are very interesting,don't know much on the subject,but i do know that music studies are difficult. I used to play the piano and for some years i had to do something called Harmony,how to arrange strains in a music piece and man that was tough!

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I wrote this fast so I hope it is clear. Its much easier to explain with speech. I hope you enjoy it. I would like to hear your interpretations and ideas.

A very interesting argument you've set here bootasven (If i knew your real name would feel much more comfortable and homelike,but only if you want to share it

).

My views on the subject:

Let's play it by probabilities. So we have:

A. There is firstly the probability that science can interpretate all nature and universe rules. That would take a long long time as the understanding of a small part of nature borns new questions. In that case all living creatures will be denominated to the state of living objects and all major religions lose their gravity,as the God phenomenon will be explained. This is the one i wouldn't like to be alive to live it.

B. There is also the probability that science has physical limits,thus leaving us with unanswered questions for all ages,as well as the probability that nature itself is endless,the more deeper you go the more questions arise (like an endless fractal rule). In this probability there are two cases. In the first you can assume results (roll the dices and take your chances) or you can just agree that we do have limits and there are indeed things that we cannot concive or explain.

Now as to the matter of free will i believe the following:

Although we are a part of this universe and we are subjects to its rules and maybe we do run based on algorhythms and equations we still haven't been able to explain most of ourselves. If we look at facts we still maintain out free will,cause noone has ever proved the opposite. If we look at possibilities and if we can predict sciences developments then we may assume that one day even the phenomenon of thinking will be explained. For me that day is far away. The reason for that is that to explain this is to try solving the most difficult questions of the universe which are:

- How it was born,the Genesis phenomenon,how is matter created?
- How does matter behave?
- Why?

The first is set cause as you said all people are matter and energy, even are thoughts procedures are electric charges in our brain neurons. But the question is how do this electric charges (energy and matter) is born? What controls its growht?\\

Furthermore there is the unstability rule (may be a key question as to free will). Under same circumstances and some variable factors matter tends to behave differently. To explain this you can try the following: Take a glass of water and let it fall to the ground once from static position (i mean don't throw it). Try the same twice,from the exact height at the exact same spot. Gravity as you know has the exact same effect on all objects,yet you will notice that although you did the same thing twice the glass fragments and water spills are differently spread in each situation. Free will is probable to work the same way,the tough part is what you say: to predict! How can you predict something that in exact same conditions may function in different ways?

Lastly is the reason why! Why to try explain how we think and even if we make it to explain the rules of how there is the question as to why we think as we think?

Well this is it for the moment.

This is a nice conversation.

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Indeed Cyberworld, hence my initial statement: no conclusions, more many possibilities. I described one idea that I had regarding the lack of free will, but also have ideas of its existence. The existence of a being which allows free will, the God Phenomenon as you stated is one idea; another is the existence of variables of pure randomness within the equations of the universe; and furthermore ideas which I have yet to explore. Each idea is but a theory, all of which cannot be proven nor disproven, and many which create further questions and theories.

I personally don't believe in the unstable rule. I believe that under the exact same conditions matter tends to behave the same. The example you put forward is very complex and has many varying factors effecting it: disturbances in the air, air movement, air density, humidity, your muscles and the forces acting on them, their fatigue from maintaining your position and the glasses position, the challenges of developing the exact same water droplet by manual manipulation of the glass. Furthermore, taking from my previous theory on free will, one could go as far as to say that the exact same atoms are not interacting with each other each time the experiment was conducted and therefore it cannot be “exactly” the same each time. Just because it cannot be exactly reproducible doesn’t mean it is not unpredictable though. If I have equations to map all of the matter in the experiment I should be able to predict it.

Unfortunately this comes back to whether such a thing is possible and therefore, like my previous theory on freewill, is nothing more than a theory. But I guess that is what beliefs are, just theories. If it wasn’t a theory, it would be a fact and therefore knowledge. In this case I would know that the unstable rule was not true, but I don’t know that. It can be argued either way and neither proven nor disproven, therefore I can only believe or disbelieve in it.

With your last statement as to why; whenever someone asks me this I always counter it with why not.

Oh, btw, my real name is Kevin.

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Fuzzy Logic

Join Date 05/2002

+496

I write. I write all the time. Well, I not often wrong...

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I write all the time

Mainly about chocolate on Msgboard Marathon! And there is no error in that my friend!

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With your last statement as to why; whenever someone asks me this I always counter it with why not.

I totally agree,it's not said with the case of terminating all discussions,it's just another usual question.

I personally don't believe in the unstable rule.

I on the contrary tend to believe it,not as the absolute rule,but as a nice perception. I guess i'm a bit of romantic with this!

I'd like to think that in two similar situations the outcome would be different,that to spice up life. As a cold scientific thinking i guess you are right,in identical,not similar situations the outcome is the same. Although i ain't 100% sure,it is a speculation. Just curious: IF we do take two glasses and in artificially controlled conditions (atmo in 0Bar,no air,in glass tubes with steel ground,hanging at same height,dropped at same time, glass of same material and water,same weight,all other unpredictable by me factors same) drop them the result and kind of brake-spread will be the same? This is an interesting experiment! I think it will still be different,cause in molecular level we still don't have the capability to control all factors.

Sooo...i guess the question drives us to another two question-probabilities:

A> There is indeed free will and random events?

B> It is a question of science capabilities,the more capabilities the more control we gain over free will.

Hey this reminds me of hydra!!!

Glad to discuss this with you Kevin,pleasure to meet a thinker.

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extra cheeze? .. or no extra cheeze .. that is the question.....pizza'pizza

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extra cheeze? .. or no extra cheeze ..

Hmmm....Amlet (the name of local pizza house) i presume?

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