A Little More Appreciation Wouldn't Hurt You.

Apocalypse_67

Join Date 01/2003

A Little More Appreciation Wouldn't Hurt You.

Think about this for a moment...
You sit in front of your PC and open your graphic program with a million ideas in your head. You then spend hours trying to transfer those ideas into a digital drawing pad. The end result is a decent, well thought out skin or wallpaper design that you want to FREELY share with people that might find it as useful as you do. And you go on to upload the file to your favorite skinning site only to find out that some arrogant idiot for some absurd reason totally unknown to you and with out even extending a 'thank you' slaps a big ol' 2 rating to your work. Aint that a B!*ch?

Lately I've been browsing thru the libraries and I have noticed how many nice and complete skins are "tagged" with well below average ratings with not one single word of comment.
C'mon people, if you can’t have at least the decency to extend a simple 'thank you' then don’t humiliate the authors with your idiotic ratings. And if you really find something bad on the work or have a valid reason for rating low, at least have the courtesy to post your reason.
I can understand a low rating on a sloppy skin or an incomplete skin, because that shows laziness on behalf of the author, but what I have seen on the past few days is totally ridiculous. That is why some times I think there should be an option when uploading a skin to choose if you want the skin to be rated or not.
So before you let your low-rating-trigger-finger do the job, think about the originality, time invested and functionality of the skin rather than your pitiful little reasons such as; 'I don’t like red' or 'I don’t like that author' or 'that skin is getting more ratings/download than mine'
Grow the hell up. We are here to support each others not to screw each others.

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First of all you all know the correct process:
-Download.
-Judge.
-Comment.
-Rate.

Yet because this thing has been brought up more than one times in the past i only have a couple of things to say:

A. People should appreciate the work one gave to his creation.

B. I second Jafo on the 'a comment needed in order to rate' option, users may as well start a vendetta and that would not be a wise thing to do for the site and the skinning community.

C. I second Keila on the 'not able to rate until download' option,at least that way some narrow headed will be convinced to see something new or different,while the rating bombers will stop as a frequent bomber won't have the appetite to download all skins just to have the pleasure to down-rate.

D. If there is the ability via internal observation a proposal: I believe user's IP is registered when he rates? A site safety moderator should keep graphic record of IP's VS Ratings. If a user is suspected of being abusive on ratings he should be called to give good reasons why or be EXILED or lose the right to rate.

C'MON PEOPLE WE ARE A COMMUNITY,A UNIFIED FAMILY. IT'S NOT ABOUT PLAYING WITH THE RULES,IT'S ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE'S WORK.I'VE SEEN MANY GOOD ARTISTS LEAVING THE SITE EXACTLY BECAUSE OF THIS,AS I HAVE SEEN WHOLE COMMUNITIES SHUTTER AND FALL BECAUSE OF THIS.

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C'MON PEOPLE WE ARE A COMMUNITY,A UNIFIED FAMILY. IT'S NOT ABOUT PLAYING WITH THE RULES,IT'S ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE'S WORK.I'VE SEEN MANY GOOD ARTISTS LEAVING THE SITE EXACTLY BECAUSE OF THIS,AS I HAVE SEEN WHOLE COMMUNITIES SHUTTER AND FALL BECAUSE OF THIS.

Well said.

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Fairyy~

Join Date 02/2004

+49

There really only is ONE real issue with ratings...and that is to devise a way to get MORE of them applied to each work/upload. The more there are the more 'accurately' the mean reflects the work's true appreciation.

I think thats probably a more accurate account. I have seen skins have a low rating ..yet d/loads are moving right along. Then I hit the rating and the skin goes up 1/2 star or 1 point. Now, my rating doesnt count for much, but if the skin has 500 downloads already, that kinda looks like most just didnt bother to stop to rate anything..I know its not required..but.....some wb skins take days and days to make..
I just try to say " Thankyou"

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Fairyy~ ...yes, you're right....many skins have only one or two ratings...which is hardly a 'test sample' to generate a real mean. Some have 30 or 40 ratings....that even makes a drive-by idiot's contribution 'painless'.

What we need is more with 30 or 40...and less with 1 or 2.....but NOT the way 'some' individuals were doing it...clicking anything that moved...at 2 second intervals, not even bothering to look at the screenshots let-alone downloading anything....

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Koasati

Join Date 07/2001

+21

I've read countless threads about this 'low rating' problem, but no one ever complains about the other problem, overly-inflated ratings... This is just as much a problem, where skinner X get high marks simply because he/she is skinner X, and for no other reason. (maybe skinner x is much loved, or he/she is 'my buddy')

I've also seen people say, "if I don't like the skin, and can only rate it low, I don't rate it at all" If this is your attitude, you shouldn't be rating anything, period. It's not about stroking egos, it's about evaluating skins.

If a skin had a fair number of 'honest' ratings, then the people trying to hurt, or inflate the marks wouldn't matter so much.

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Exactamundo....

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Apocalypse_67

Join Date 01/2003

Ok let’s evaluate this from the actual/physical skin point.
What is the sole purpose/function of a skin?
It is to change the look of the basic/default interface of the program while maintaining the usability of such program.
This alone should count for 60%-70% of the rating. Originality, work and appeal should make up the remaining 30%-40%
I'll give you an example;
The Antares theme by Pixtudio (now let's forget for a moment that it was Pixtudio that created the theme and let's focus on the skin alone)
In my opinion is one of the best skins I've seen and used. It has functionality, originality and lot of work went into it. But ME personally, I don’t like the color purple. Should this little fact represent such weight in my overall rating as to give that skin a 6? Or should the fact that 'X' author made the skin have anything to do with the rating?
The opinion given on the comment box might/could be about how appealing the skin is to you, but when it comes to rating, what should count the most is the performance of the skin.
Now, constructive criticism is always welcomed when is intended for good. The constructive criticism that serves as a put-down is the one that will spark a flame thread.

If a skin had a fair number of 'honest' ratings, then the people trying to hurt, or inflate the marks wouldn't matter so much.

Totally agree. It'll be better if more honest raters would start to rate more often.

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Fairyy~

Join Date 02/2004

+49

[Koasati]
I've read countless threads about this 'low rating' problem, but no one ever complains about the other problem, overly-inflated ratings... This is just as much a problem, where skinner X get high marks simply because he/she is skinner X, and for no other reason. (maybe skinner x is much loved, or he/she is 'my buddy')

I agree with you..im one of those that will overly rate something. But..its not always because its a " friend " or a " favourite " skinner. Its because I honestly think a skin that has 2 or 2.5 stars was worth much more. And the only way to make it at least have 3 stars is to over rate it. But..im only trying to make up for those in too much of a hurry that dont rate. I understand not everyone has a lot of time.Most times I look at the SS's and previews when im not signed in and come back later. I never rate a skin I do not d/load and try. Just because its not my cup of tea...doesnt mean its not a fantastic skin. I can appreciate the hard work.......but...I prefer pink and more " girly " type skins. But thats where I can take a great skin and change it in skin studio. " Antares " would be great with a few lacey do-dads here and there

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It'll be better if more honest raters would start to rate more often.

but...but... it's so tedious. Do you have any idea the effort involved? Particularly since I'm on rural dial-up (one step up from a party line {now that would bite}). Takes forever for the pages to load, then browse, then decide, then wait, wait, wait on the download, apply, use for a while, go back to the gallery, find it, then rate and comment on it.

Do you honestly think all that effort is worth it because some skinner spent his/her time creating something that I can use for free to "dress up" my computer?

I do.

Woefully, while I do consider myself an honest rater (any one that can check can opine on that), I have been remiss. Mostly due to procrastination (I will go back and comment/rate!) and lack of short term (what was it..I was gonna...gonna...ooh Sponge Bob's on!). No excuse. {Dad always said excuses were for people that don't have a valid reason}.

So what am I gonna do about it? I don't know. But here's what I'm going to attempt to accomplish starting today: I will not rate a skin I have not commented on 1st. I will not comment on a skin I have not used. I will not download a new skin until I have commented on and rated the skin I am using.

Not perfect I know, but maybe it's a start to get me in a better habit?

Any other suggestions?

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I was reading this topic and quoting lines that I agreed with when my opinion changed suddenly. As a skinner I do look at the ratings as an evaluation of my work. When I see a rating drop from the level five it was started with to a rating of two with no apparent reason and, only being downloaded a few times, I have to wonder why. Seeing as this was done with no comment I know it was a "DRIVE BY ASSULT" and I dismiss the event. Now I have just gotten to the point where the ratings have no meaning and look to see how many downloads have taken place on any given day as this is a better gage of their rating than "ONE" person clicking a button and no one to come by and make a more appropriate change.

I have felt in the past that some of the rude comments and low ratings are from flaming fools or maybe jealous skinners as I am fairly new and, as I believe, talented. Going to school for multi media and digital design I can see with my own eyes that my works are improving. Some of my first skins are quite hideous in my own eyes and only stand to show how much I have improved but, I digress.

What I would like to see is a way of having downloads per day and downloads over all factored into some form of automatic rating system. This would make the ratings more relevant and have more of a meaning. Not to mention taking a "DRIVE BY ASSULT" value out entirely and giving the community a collective voice at the same time.

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A-67 The frustration is completely understandable, the simpilest graphic requires not only a certain amount of effort but also the imagination/vision to create it..Then, to go beyond that and spend the time uploading it to share with the world "free of charge" only to have it "Ridiculed" just does not seem at all worth the effort the artists put forth no matter how simplistic the work is..

Im not sure the "Rating" system really works...perhaps ratings should only be allowed to Journeyman class and above (Wizop, Super Wizop etc..etc..) At least these persons *DO understand the work involved and (Hopefully) would not "Bash/flame" the offering.
I dont really know what the answers are, but it is obvious the current system just isnt working, if it were the artists such as yourself would not be having issues with it so often.

I do not rate a skin if I dont like it, if I cannot say anything good about it I just dont say anything at all. I have noticed that even from some of the best artists on this site I have viewed skins I just do not like, now that really doesnt make the skin bad, it revolves more around my personal preference and I cannot "rate" based on that..

Hang in there Apoc, im sure you have heard what has been said about "Opinions" they are like ************, everyone has one..LoL

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WOM

Join Date 01/2002

+253

pixel-Master Draco, as your status means that a mod. has to approve of your upload and give you a rating, it takes more than 7 citizens to to bring down your rating.About 4 apprentices, 3 MA, 2 Journeyman. So you shoule see that if your rating dropped a star or 2, then it can't be a drive by unless there was a bus full. In other words, it takes a few people that don't like that piece of work to drop your rating.

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* shurugs *

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The opinion given on the comment box might/could be about how appealing the skin is to you, but when it comes to rating, what should count the most is the performance of the skin.

Actually, with the current rating system, I have to disagree wholeheartedly. Just go and remind yourself what the different stars mean (at this time). Just mouse over them and see what pops up:

5=I love it
4=I like it
3=It's okay
2=I don't like it
1=I hate it

Never, at any point, are those a measure of any objective value (ie. how well the skin performs, how complete it is, etc.). These are purely subjective criteria. And as such they will result in many, varied opinions. Let me tell you up front, there are some well known, talented, long-time skinners here whose work I hate. I recognize full well how complete their work is, how talented they are, how many unknown hours went into their work. And as such I test just about everything they release. Only to be incredibly disappointed (in a purely subjective sense). So, should I still be forced to rate it a 3-4 (as you seem to assert), simply because a lot of time went into it, even though it is a skin I absolutely would never, ever use, and would never, ever recommend to someone else? At least with the current, purely subjective rating system, I think the answer is no.

The truth is, it can be a wonderfully made skin, crafted with hours and hours of love and attention, and still be ugly, garish and unusable as hell in the eyes of someone else. If they legitimately hate it, who are you to force them to rate it a 3-4?

Sure, there are jackasses who will rate vindictively, but I would be willing to bet there are fewer than we might think.

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NightTrainthedark

Join Date 07/2003

+255

It seems to me there is a conflict between taking time to evaluate something properly and raising the volume of ratings on something. I guess everyone has to find their happy medium to spread their opinion around.

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I agree in part with A_67's post. it is good to know that your work is appreciated & there are bad apples in the crowd that will stab you in the back when they get the chance.

another point I would like to raise is the response to comments when they are made.
I've noticed that one or two of the 'big hitters' in the community very rarely respond to the comments that are made by the people downloading there work.
I've noticed that one or two of the big names in the community will upload work but very rarely respond to the comments that are made. If someone compliments you on your work, a simple 'Thankyou for your comment' would be nice !

Has anybody else noticed this or am I just just being picky ?

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Apocalypse_67

Join Date 01/2003

This maybe a big part of the problem since those mouse-over definitions suggest a personal taste of what the skin looks like rather than how the skin performs.
If red is not my favorite color and I see a red skin, going by the mouse-over definition, my rating for that particular skin should be a 2 star.

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NightTrainthedark

Join Date 07/2003

+255

I can't edit my post but I meant to say it is a conflict for Journeyman and above. sorry.

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Why not expand the rating system to include various specific questions about a skin. For example:

1. Visual appeal (1-5)
2. Ease of use (1-5)
3. Length of use (1-5)
etc, etc.

An overall rating could then be calculated based on these criteria, or the various categories could be stored as seperate searchable ratings.

Obviously these are still subjective (and I'm having flashbacks to the GUIOs as I speak

) but they give a little more freedom of expression than just 'how good is this skin?'

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but they give a little more freedom of expression than just 'how good is this skin?'

Heck, I don't think that currently we can even say the ratings mean that. The mouse over interpretations for each star value make it pretty clear that the rating doesn't even mean how good a skin is, simply how much that user likes it.

But, I am going to be completely honest here. I think the continual talk of ratings is a bit silly. Now, I know I don't have any WB skins or anything that intensive here, but I have had my fair share of low ratings. And guess what. I just couldn't care less. I don't understand the obsession with the ratings, and personally wouldn't advocate to change them. No matter what is done to the system, someone will continue to bemoan the ratings process.

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WOM

Join Date 01/2002

+253

Lets go people, this horse is still moving.

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WHACK!

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Seriously, uploading a few of my creations here has really let me see how sensitive I am to how they are recieved, "out in the world".

I have felt tweaked by the ratings aspect, but I think a little honest self observation is healthy at such times, and I find that my emotional reactions are often more about something that needs fixing in me, rather than something "out there".

Just my $.02.

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Apocalypse_67

Join Date 01/2003

I don't understand the obsession with the ratings, and personally wouldn't advocate to change them.

I think you have totally missed the entire point of the post. This is not about any obsession with ratings as it is neither about my or any particular author's work. It is about the entire rating process conducted by those with the privilege of rating.
As authors/artists we know and understand that our work is prone to attract a good share of negative and/or positive feedback. This does not change or alter the status of your work.
Ratings on the other hand and on this site DO changes the status of your work. A low rating means that your work is not visible on the galleries, on the 'This Just In list' and for users that have their rating filters set to low. There for, in a site with 2 million plus members as low rated skin will go unnoticed for the most part. So why would any artist would want to invest time to create and upload something when out of 2 million people maybe a couple of hundred will see it and maybe 50 will download it. It just doesn’t make sense.
There might be a few others that share your "I could care less about ratings" opinion, but the rest of the tens of thousands other artist might not.
Again, ratings should be based on the functionality and performance of the skin and not on how 'pretty' it looks to me. If the second is the one that applies, we might as well run a WC Skin Beauty Contest.

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ratings should be based on the functionality and performance of the skin and not on how 'pretty' it looks to me

Sorry, I gotta disagree with that. Skinning is an ART...and looks matter more than functionality and performance. WAY, WAY, WAY more. If I make a skin in MS Paint, but code it perfectly in SKS, will that be a better skin than some Photoshop professional who makes a few blunders and mishaps in SKS? I dont think so...people come here for skins that appeal to them visually...thats what it's all about. The other two are secondary.

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