Does Wincustomize need a make over? » Forum Post by Bash2cool

thomassen

Join Date 01/2003

+10

Regarding HTML and CSS; I'd be happy to assist on working out a template for the site. Just let me know when the time comes.

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Javakhanzz is right give them a break. i didn't make this article to make wincustomize fell bad or anything but i am mad about the errors i keep getting.

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I have a great solution. This should become a member only site. That way we could see if the lack of money is really the cause. Get the site in shape, check and re check all the programs on many computers before they are released to destroy ours. There will be far less people to deal with as there will be far less visitors. And that will not really be a loss, since they aren't paying now anyway, and some that are, are leaving. There are plenty of sites non paying people can visit. The way I see it, the site is the least of the problems. The programs being pushed out to compensate the lack of monies received are destroying one computer after another. I myself have not updated or upgraded anything for awhile. I hardly download anything anymore, unless it is by someone I know or who I know makes good skins. Bad skins being accepted is as big a problem as the bad upgrades and programs. I have always know that quality far outweighs quantity. If the problems at hand are not addressed, and quality put over quantity, I think that it will be the end of many years of hard work and fun. It is not fun here anymore. And if I, who is considered a low man on the pole around here, can see all the people that are complaining and leaving, surely it has not escaped those in high places here. Before any more expansion takes place, what is already here needs to be tended to like a very sick child. Before it is too late. I think this could be considered biting off more than one can chew. It seems to be a new trend in business. Not enough pay or employees to handle the load, yet the push is always there. So, now that I have probably made some people mad, I will just say that I hope it changes, and all the fun and quality returns. It would be a real shame and loss if it doesn't.

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Tarkus - it's not like the system goes "Oh, subscriber, don't crash".

That's not what I meant. What I meant is that if the site is overwhelmed by the number of users, why not cut back on what the free users can do?

And mind you, I'm not trying to be elitist. I have nothing against the free users, and would love it if everyone had a great experience here. I'm just saying if you're not equipped to handle the number of users you're getting, and you're saying not enough people are subscribing, then it only makes sense that you should be prioritizing subscribers.

I think that a lot people have come to expect free content on the net and think nothing of the vast amount of work that goes into making a site such as this work.

It's not free for a lot of us. Granted, none of us are going broke with our subscriptions here, and I don't expect the world for my subscription. However, it's unfair to suggest that we should just all sit back and appreciate all this free content, and not complain about any problems.

I have a great solution. This should become a member only site. That way we could see if the lack of money is really the cause.

I would hope it doesn't come to that. However, it does seem like a feasible solution (at least for the short term) would be to cut way back on the benefits for non-subscribers. If there aren't enough subscribers to finance the site, perhaps there isn't enough incentive to becoming a subscriber.

Posted via WinCustomize Browser/Stardock Central

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yea i agree with clwoods that it used to be fun making skins but now i think its about compitition instead of having fun.

i noticed that a lot more skins are being made at the same time. Even i myself am having a compitition with Carvan1. he might not be having a compitition against me but i am. and i think i should stop. i used to make 1 or 2 skins a month now i make 2-4 skins a week!

anyway i think that this site should be fun cause it's all a hobby to us isn't it?

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I see I have a typo in #28 It should be in all instances, Quality over Quantity.

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This one small issue aside, the large picture is that admin, trying to hold things together, downplays the problems either by disappearing from the forums when the issues get too specific, like all of the extensive problems people had with the new builds of various programs, or they answer by downplaying the problems and making some pretty damn condescending comments to people. It's what they have to do to keep their jobs. But feel sorry for them....hell, Jafo says he spends lots of money out of his own pocket to work here. Um, yeah. I'd just like to hear some truth from them...not garbage like "Go start your own site if you can do better" or "Don't walk the path of a troll, don't drag yourself into the gutter." Hey, this is MY OPINION. The site is slow...fine. There are lots of problems with the new builds, fine. But own up to them, down treat me like a 6 year old that will believe everything Mommy and Daddy tell him. This isn't whining, or being a troll, it's just being tired of listening to the kind of stuff you hear out of politicians. There may be some truth there, but a lot of bull too.

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But the # of subscribers we get is pitiful. We have plenty of bandwidth. What we don't have are enough IT people.

Sounds like a catch22. There are lots of ways to bring that number up. First off maybe get some great looking skins in the subscriber section. Something new by Pixtudio or Skinplant, something that makes people want to subscribe to WC. The current skins are years old, time for something fresh.

Have another subscription drive, but this time have a drawing out of the new subscribers to win some Stardock products.

WC compared to other sites from Stardock like GCII, Totalgaming.net, is way slower. The other sites mentioned fly compared to here.

There are lots of ways to make it happen, not just these couple suggestions. As far as people getting all the content of the site without subscribing, eating up bandwidth, there are ways around that too. DA has features available for subscribers only, WC can do something along the same lines.

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I've had my share of complaints here, but honestly the folks in charge don't want to see these problems either, and are working to get them resolved. You think they like to see so many site bashing threads? How about some solutions? It is very easy to complain but not so easy to come up with resolutions for these problems. Bones is on the right track, I believe. Let's sell a couple of skins or have a fundraiser. Sell a Tiggz or Danilo suite for $15. Have another GUI Olympics where skins are only available to subscribers.
....something.
If money is the issue, let's raise some money.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1845

It's what they have to do to keep their jobs. But feel sorry for them....hell, Jafo says he spends lots of money out of his own pocket to work here. Um, yeah. I'd just like to hear some truth from them

Oh it's the God's truth, matey.

The difference between thee and me? I persevere with the site issues and do what I volunteered to do....help keep people happy here by treating the recalcitrant and the genuinely decent just the same, chasing upload issues, explaining why Moggy-the-photo wasn't accepted, getting between children pulling hair and spitting, helping to keep Wincustomize.com a [mostly] friendly place to be.

It simply takes a bit longer to do it lately when site issues arise.

You want condescending comments? You want the 'truth'? I find much of your site interaction here obnoxious. There....a bit of 'truth' for you..... much less 'political'....much more 'honest'.....

So...we're not allowed to say 'heavy traffic load'....'not enough money'....etc, because those reasons are only 'excuses'.....and what you want it to be is 'incompetence' because that will be some tacit vindication of your presumed superiority.

In reality I steer clear of T-Man and the crew who are dealing with the site coding.....they don't need interruptions from people, unless there's valid input. When the guys have it sorted we can chat about the urbane, but in the meantime those who care about the site and its community will keep at it in spite of the childish foot-stampings of the spoilt brats.

Oh, sorry.....

What I should have said....PC and all....

"Please be patient"....

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CerebroJD

Join Date 01/2003

+9

Right on, Jafo.

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Fuzzy Logic

Join Date 05/2002

+493

#35 Ditto

(I'm a man of few words... )

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You are the one that started all of this garbage and made me actually take a look at what's behind your well scripted words and "old buddy Jafo" personna. You just did it again, totally trashing my comments....which are ALL VALID,and calling names again. That's all you have...there are no excuses for the way you and some of your fellow admin treat the people here.Just make my "Opinions" out to be some kind of attack and trash me. My point is made. You just showed what you got, nothing.

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CerebroJD

Join Date 01/2003

+9

#38

Where did he call you names?

Your comments are invalid, mostly unfounded, and aimless.

You have no point to make, so how did you make it?

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1845

Sorry for my candour Br Aus....[candor] US

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BTW, can you guys fix the bookmarking, so that it opens to the first unread message instead of the top of the thread?

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Fairyy~

Join Date 02/2004

+49

[fervc]
I think they need to be more concerned about the technical issue plauging the site, before even worrying about what the site looks like.

Lets see..signed in this am..uploaded screen shot..waited 10 minutes or more..got error message " File contains no data " Exited site, opened site again..filled out all info for 2 nd time..hit submit..waited longer this time ..got " Error, timed out " exited site, re-entered, filled out info for 3rd time..hit submit..watch my pretty cursor hypnotize me for a long time.....finally. Paydirt.

Total time to upload screenshot..40 minutes. Do I care what the site looks like ?

Hell no.

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Fuzzy Logic

Join Date 05/2002

+493

there are no excuses for the way you and some of your fellow admin treat the people here

Yes, I must apologise to everyone for giving up my free time for them, for being here now when I should have been in bed two hours ago, for spending all of Sunday moderating when I could have been out in the sunshine, and for helping all those folks who I could have left to sort things out for themselves.

Fortunately most people here don't think like you, it is they whom I give my time for willingly. Still, in every crowd there will always be one ungrateful (comment removed by admin)...

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1845

(comment removed by admin)...

Wasn't me....

I was busy approving Logons.....funny, that.....

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Fuzzy Logic

Join Date 05/2002

+493

Fuzzy Logic *innocent look no 22*

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I think everything is easy to find, and until window's screws everything up. Wait. Naw, don't fix it if it ain't broke.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

Is this the time yet for the "If you don't like it, go start your own site" comeback yet? That's just turning things around to take the focus off of the site problems here.

No, I'm pretty much just ignoring you at this point.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

May I point out that if the website separated the look into a CSS file and left the HTML semantic by using HTML 4.01 strict or XHTML instead of the current tagsoup it would save some bandwidth. As it is currently, this webstie rely heavily on tables, something that quickly adds excess code. Remember how much traffic this site attracts, it quickly adds up. If the look of the site where put into a CSS file it'd not only be less content in the HTML file, but the CSS file would in most cases be cached the first time a user visit the site. Resulting in even less bandwidth usage. I'd think that's be in the interest of both the owners and the users. And then when the appearance is separeted from the content it'd be esier to do makeovers.

As I mentioned previously, our problem isn't bandwidth. It's database and coding. The site actually doesn't use that much bandwidth because evething is compressed when sent out via a third party plugin we use.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

Here are the facts on the ground:

1) Without VOLUNTEERS like Fuzzy Logic and Jafo, this site would cease to exist. WinCustomize's #1 problem is that it lacks human expertise on many areas because it woudl cost too much to employ them. WinCustomize could never even begin to afford Fuzzy and Jafo and the others for their time. So treat them with respect.

2) WC's issue isn't bandwidth.

3)The issue is that when you have a site that gets 3+ million users, all kinds of tiny little database choices and scripting choices that are fine on a smaller site start to fall apart. I can assure you, if SkinBase.org and Skinz.org or Customize.org got even a fraction of the traffic this site gets they would run into the same trouble.

4) deviantART went through the same thing. But, for whatever reason, they are able to get vastly more subscribers which in turn allowed them to hire an entire team of full-time salaried web developers, database administrators, etc. For example, these problems people are running into (including US) we have had to look and look and look to try to find out what the problem is.

5) The specific cause of the problems is that *something* is locking the articles database across our servers. In turn, requests to it pile up and eventually the database starts to go down but not before everything slows to a crawl.

6) Hopefully you've noticed that since 1pm EST the site has been pretty stable.

7) People need to seperate WinCustomize from Stardock. Stardock's position has been consistent, it doesn't need WinCustomize. It could happilly just send people over to deviantART for skins and themes. WC has to sink or swim on its own. Stardock pays the lion's share of the bills.

8) We are working on it. I did very little else this weekend but to try to look into this myself and I'm no database admin or web developer. We are giving it serious attention. These sites are very complicated and what works with 50 people on or 500 people on falls apart when there's 5000 people on sometimes.

9) We would love to have volunteers who can help us with some of these issues. So the CSS template offer, I'll happily accept that help as soon as we get the site working reliably as-is.

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it's been i think three years since Wincustomize changed its website look so should it change it's look now? Well to me ... i think they should wait till Microsoft releases Longhorn cause longhorn will be different than windows. and there will be new styles.

So should it have a new make-over? please place comments on what you think.

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WOW!!! i think thats how this thread started.....i love this site a whole lot i think things are very easy to find....and most people are friendly enough to ask question or give answers.

But..... most of this thread has been people shooting off there mouths about one another and other silly CRAP!!!the only thing that would make me stop comin here wouldnt be the "sites look"
it would be how people act towards each other here...

grow up....or stay in kindergarden and take it to the sandbox

I HEART WINCUSTOMIZE

cityboy

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