Where Are The Moderators? » Forum Post by Boss019

Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1845

There are currently 29,707 separate artworks on Wincustomize.com, excluding screenshots. It is fundamentally impossible to remember each and every one....and thus discern whether there is, or is not an issue with any one in particular.

Re the comment reminding you to note 'permission included' in your description/s....that was to assist the moderators, as you do so many of them such comment would/could be taken on face value and save an individual check on each and everyone separately....

If there is a specific issue an individual finds with something then email an Admin/Wizop.

Include.

Your name/nick, and links to any/all relevant works, or failing that, the name of each work and what section they are in.

As skinners within a large, online community it is the responsibility of each and every one of you to 'protect' your own by doing your 'bit', too....

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1845

Oh....and 62 works 'pending'....

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

lol. Well said, Jafo.

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I guess my main point was that by just saying "Thanks" the the artist or "Permission included" that is pretty much an unstated license to rip if you do it once and it works, or somebody sees somebody else do it and it works. And there may be 62 works pending, but how many will go up in a day, and how long does it take to check for a permission? It seems there would be more than enough time. Maybe I'm off base...I don't really know.

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Re the comment reminding you to note 'permission included' in your description/s....that was to assist the moderators, as you do so many of them such comment would/could be taken on face value and save an individual check on each and everyone separately....

Fair enough on that point, but on the reverse, someone that doesn't post alot shouldn't have the luxury of being trusted when they say there is permission included or thanks to the author, those should be the first to be checked.

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Sounds good in theory, Boss, but unless one of the moderators happens to recognize something from another artist's work being used, the chances are that some things will get through. And as was stated, the sheer volume of works to moderate precludes any case by case check.

The answer? An alert community that lets the admins know when a possible violation occurs (privately by email is the preferred method, I believe), so it can be dealt with.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1845

And there may be 62 works pending, but how many will go up in a day, and how long does it take to check for a permission?

Well...that depends. Sometimes each download is 5 meg....which can take time, particularly for those who are restricted to dialup, and/or takes money ... for those who have download caps....eg, mine is approx $90 AUS for 3gig, so, ignoring the time, and assuming I'm not paying 15c per meg over the cap then 5meg would cost me 15 cents for the privilege of determining whether that particular upload was 'legal' or not.

Those 62 works might average at a meg a piece ....let's call it 50 meg total ....that's a cost to me of $1.50 and at approx 50 kps it'll be somewhere around 1000 seconds to just dl the stuff.... call it roughly 10 minutes. Now, as a Building Designer that time adds up to about $10...but let's call it 'mate's rates' and just $5....then, for the privilege of moderating the current moderation Q I'm already expending 6.50 ..... and that's BEFORE I've looked at them.

Extrapolate to a year....and the DL of moderation items alone 'costs' me better than 2000.

Now, include actual checking time and responses, possible emails and their subsequent tirade of replies .... all requiring both time and bandwidth....and the concept of other people doing 'their bit' to help sounds pretty bloody inviting, don't you think?....

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No mod/admin on a site this size can be everywhere at once, it's impossible. I seriously doubt that Jafo or anyone else on the staff here would intentionally let a rip get posted.

This logon that's been up for 2 weeks, that should be plenty of time to send off an email.

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Daiwa

Join Date 07/2001

+351

Jafo - where's the online form to sign up for that deal?

Cheers,
Daiwa

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People do do their 'bit' to help, but all the rest about the cost for this and the cost for that are just part of running a business. And when you say that it is costing "You" such and such, that was your decision either when you took the job or kept it when it was determined that "you" would pay for it and not the company. If it cost's "you" better than 2000, that consequence is on you and not the subscribers or visitors.
And a business owner with too much work will either cut corners and eventually lose out for lack of quality...or hire more people to do the job needed.

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Stockholm Syndrome, the creator of the wall in the logon was informed and didn't persue it. It wasn't my part to any more but tell him, I wasn't the one that was ripped. That was just one example that I was familiar with.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1845

but all the rest about the cost for this and the cost for that are just part of running a business.

Oh, come on....this is why it really would be 'nice' to have other people help look after their own.

The Moderators on Wincustomize.com volunteer their time to look after your property. It would be considered 'polite' for others to offer assistance rather than accuse these moderators of failing.

Several moderators have accepted the position/promotion only to withdraw due to their belief they could not reasonably set aside sufficient time to make a difference to the 'load'.

All this will be changing 'soon' as new systems/people are put in place....but none of this detracts from the responsibility/duty of those who contribute their works to also contribute with issue-notification 'when they can'.

I think perhaps we need a 'Work Report' thread posted by a Moderator.....a 'day in the life of the frontline 'grunt'', rather than just the various 'coders' work reports'...

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1845

Jafo - where's the online form to sign up for that deal?

Daiwa ... $10,000 in unmarked bills in a brown paper bag...left-luggage locker 13, Central Station...and it's all yours...

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People do look after others, and as I said, I informed the creator of the logon wall, he didn't persue it. I've informend many others here and on other sites of rips. I feel my responsibility in those cases is to inform the creator of the work and from there it is up to them. I think you're trying to say I should have reported it to administration, but it was not my work to report as ripped, I informed the author. I was using it as an example. It IS polite and it is being done, I'm sure you get reports of rips.
But to bring what it cost's you into this is totally off the subject.
And volunteering is just that, doing something for nothing because you love it and it doesn't necessarily make you expert in what you are doing or exempt from either praise or criticism. I never started this to slam anyone, just state a point of view that in my opinion needed addressing.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1845

But to bring what it cost's you into this is totally off the subject.

Wrong.

If people have it explained to them that others bear the financial burden of their oversights they just 'may' see the logic in getting it right next time.

Probably the best way to explain the issue....say each upload to WC cost the uploader a 'fee'. If he 'got it wrong' and had to pay a second time...he'd soon remember to 'get it right'....the old hip-pocket nerve would remind him.

You upload great Logons...derived from others' walls, etc....always with permissions....it's all good. If only others were as dilligent, but generally they are not, which is frustrating to say the least....so when mention of 'permission' is missing it's usually automatic to remind people to make note of its inclusion, simple as that...

Now, back to the 'specific'.

If you notify an author of a 'rip' and he does not pursue it ...and neither of you notifies anyone in a position to 'deal', how is it then a failing of this person that the work is not removed?

No matter how it is slanted, 29,000 uploads is just a wee bit beyond any sane person's memory-retention.

Unfortunately, although we 'may' be in a position to act we are not always appraised of the details to enable that action.

That's where others can and do help...

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Koasati

Join Date 07/2001

+21

If you notify an author of a 'rip' and he does not pursue it ...and neither of you notifies anyone in a position to 'deal', how is it then a failing of this person that the work is not removed?

I was about to say the same, but you say it much better anyway.....

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Well well well, what do we have here...

https://www.wincustomize.com/ViewSkin.aspx?SID=1&SkinID=4764&LibID=26
https://www.wincustomize.com/ViewSkin.aspx?SID=1&SkinID=4762&LibID=26
https://www.wincustomize.com/ViewSkin.aspx?SID=1&SkinID=4719&LibID=26

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe these background images used are MINE no?

Please could admin remove these logons asap as I did NOT give this person permission to use any of my wallpapers for his creations.

Obviously mods don't realise how frustrating it is to see your own creations ripped by someone other then you, uploading YOUR creations to websites thinking that it's their own.

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Maybe the jobs of the Mods (and those 'doing their bit') might be easier with a 'rip' button? I've seen them at other sites, haven't used them (I gots no art

) so I don't the exactly what's required with them. I can foresee problems with them tying up Mods time on erroneous reporting (for whatever reason) but maybe there is a way to tie to the account of the reporter (no anon reporting)?

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Koasati

Join Date 07/2001

+21

Of course we know how frustrating it is. But as Jafo has pointed out, we can't know/remember everything on the site.

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We do have a rip button - it's called e-mail

Just send a link to the rip and a link to the original and all will be taken care of.

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Thanks for removing the rips. Much appreciated.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

People do look after others, and as I said, I informed the creator of the logon wall, he didn't persue it. I've informend many others here and on other sites of rips. I feel my responsibility in those cases is to inform the creator of the work and from there it is up to them. I think you're trying to say I should have reported it to administration, but it was not my work to report as ripped, I informed the author. I was using it as an example. It IS polite and it is being done, I'm sure you get reports of rips.
But to bring what it cost's you into this is totally off the subject.
And volunteering is just that, doing something for nothing because you love it and it doesn't necessarily make you expert in what you are doing or exempt from either praise or criticism. I never started this to slam anyone, just state a point of view that in my opinion needed addressing.

Let's bottom line this -- we at least have moderation. And we catch most rips and such that do come up. Sometimes rips get through. It's life. If someone sees their work ripped, it's their responsibility to report it to us. We provide moderation as a bonus feature of the site. We do NOT consider it our responsibility to protect other people's copyright. We do what we can, far more than most websites, but we're not going to go beyond a best-effort basis to do so.

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It's a bonus now? That ought to be printed in the sales brocures. And of the 62 posts pending, maybe 15 or 20 of which were posted this morning, 3 were rips AND one wasn't even a logonxp file...it was an .exe file that could contain WHO KNOWS WHAT kind of harmful files and do major damage to a lot of computers. It just doesn't seem that big of a workload for a few moderators to catch that. Doesn't seem like much of a BONUS to me.

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Gotta watch the spelling.....Brochures

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1845

Obviously mods don't realise how frustrating it is to see your own creations ripped by someone other then you, uploading YOUR creations to websites thinking that it's their own.

The Images used [yours] are about as common as one can get. They could have been the creation of the uploader, or just about anyone else. Unless a moderator sifted through 5000 walls checking for each one it's an easy assumption to expect them to be his own works.

Example....

Someone uploads a Bryce Torus Logon. Is it his or did he just push similar buttons to that Bryce Torus Wall uploader?

All that is NEEDED is for such common-works' owners to pop in and inform the Admins and it WILL be fixed.

I let those through...because it was reasonable to assume they were his own.

You corrected that assumption.

Now they are gone...and any subsequent works will be considered with more suspicion.

Some walls are actually sufficiently 'notable', [famous] or their 'style' is so easy to pick that it's a no=brainer to intercept them.

Others are common in style and content and much harder to distinguish....

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