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Frogboy
Frogboy
Join Date 03/2001
+2419 sdemperor

Apple to switch to Intel CPUs

The Mac, as we know it, may soon be gone..

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June 3, 2005 10:22:24 PM from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Apple Computer plans to announce Monday that it's scrapping its partnership with IBM and switching its computers to Intel's microprocessors.

Apple has been using PowerPC chips to power their Macintosh line of computers since 1994. But according to CNET, Apple is scheduled to announce this Monday at their Worldwide Developer's Conference their intention to make the switch.

Those who remember the migration from the 68k series chips back in the early 90s may recall that it took some doing. To run at optimal speeds, software has to be recompiled to the native chipset. Migrating to a totally different platform such as PowerPC to Intel will be a significant upheaval.

When Apple announced their move to IBM's next-generation PowerPC chipsets (now in the G5) some pundits have long made the argument that Apple can't ship enough computers to remain competitive on both price and performance with computers powered by Intel-compatible CPUs. Simply put, economies of scale were working against Apple in the long-run.

According to a CNET source, what may have spurred the change was just that -- IBM's concerns about making a low-volume chip that competes with x86's in performance in the same price-range.

The question is, can the Mac survive a transition from the PowerPC to Intel-based CPUs with the corresponding software compatibility/optimization issues?
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Frogboy
Jafo
Join Date 03/2001
+1846 sdemployee
Reply #1 June 3, 2005 10:48:14 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
If the change means the existing software is then redundant...or incompatible...it'll be a sting in the tail for all those Mac-fanatics.  Perhaps the hardware may be cheaper but how does that equate with repurchasing the software to run on it/them?....
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Frogboy
XX
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #2 June 3, 2005 11:34:34 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Why not? They has been paying for each patch for a long while.
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Frogboy
Odin314
Join Date 05/2005
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Reply #3 June 3, 2005 11:40:57 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
If the Apple goes from a PowerPC chip to an x86 chip, then doesn't that mean that macs will turn into PCs?
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Frogboy
phill666
Join Date 01/2003
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Reply #4 June 4, 2005 1:55:20 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Intel makes more then just x86 chips, so why assume that apple is planning to switch to the x86 architecture?
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Frogboy
whiterabbit007
Join Date 04/2005
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Reply #5 June 4, 2005 8:12:33 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
And thus Intel takes another step towards world domination
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Frogboy
TexasJoe
Join Date 12/2004
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Reply #6 June 4, 2005 8:37:28 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Darn! That's awful good news! so Apple really can tell who's the best chipmaker on the market!

Intel makes more then just x86 chips, so why assume that apple is planning to switch to the x86 architecture?

- That's right! Pentium 4 505 will soon be replaced with a model that supports x64 instructions.
- Pentium D & other dual cores support EM64T
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Frogboy
Steve Grenier
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #7 June 4, 2005 9:55:38 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I guess I won't have to make anymore Mac themes then
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Frogboy
Septimus
Join Date 03/2002
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Reply #8 June 4, 2005 10:53:55 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
At last. Mac's will be more afordable. They will still restrict the components used and without a lots of bios hacks for example you won't be able to build one, but bugger it who cares.
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Frogboy
Odin314
Join Date 05/2005
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Reply #9 June 4, 2005 12:43:40 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Oh, my mistake. I apolgize for my ignorance.
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Frogboy
Nebbers
Join Date 03/2005
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Reply #10 June 4, 2005 12:53:37 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
It's all rumor and speculation... notice Apple hasn't sued the Wall Street Journal for the leak yet? They sue leakers 99% of the time. They want this rumor, obviously. Heck, it got us all talking, what do you think it's doing to IBM or Intel? It gives them a bargaining tool. But I'll be damned if I start seeing and hearing that little Intel Swirl logo and sound on my Apple commercials!!
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Frogboy
ravenbloodbath
Join Date 04/2004
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Reply #11 June 4, 2005 2:56:48 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Intel makes the best hardware for PC"s in the world.
This will be the best thing that ever happened to Apple.
I will go buy the first one that comes out with an Intel processor.
It is about time they started thinking about the inside as much as they do about the outside.

This collobration in my opinion will spur the creation of the finest computing platform that has ever been concieved.

Very happy about this and ready to go buy.
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Frogboy
Odin314
Join Date 05/2005
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Reply #12 June 4, 2005 3:57:51 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Intel makes the best hardware for PC"s in the world.


Uhh...
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Frogboy
TexasJoe
Join Date 12/2004
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Reply #13 June 4, 2005 4:15:49 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Intel makes the best hardware for PC"s in the world.
This will be the best thing that ever happened to Apple.
I will go buy the first one that comes out with an Intel processor.
It is about time they started thinking about the inside as much as they do about the outside.

This collobration in my opinion will spur the creation of the finest computing platform that has ever been concieved.

Very happy about this and ready to go buy.


Thanks ravenbloodbath (sweet name! BTW) for helping us all see the light! If you're not with Intel then you're against everything that's good and pure in our world! Yeah I'm an Intel fanatic, so what? (just kidding, though a large part of it is true)
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Frogboy
Phantom Puppet
Join Date 04/2005
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Reply #14 June 4, 2005 7:31:02 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
People won't be able to call it wintel anymore.
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Frogboy
mrbiotech
Join Date 11/2002
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Reply #15 June 5, 2005 1:22:51 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

"Intel makes the best hardware for PC"s in the world."

You really haven't looked at the G5 architecture, have you?
Your spurious claims are not supported by facts.

Hopefully this means that Apple and Microsoft will compete head-to-head on the same platforms, giving users the option of getting the Mac OS or Windows. Perhaps Steve Jobs is feeling the confidence in realizing his OS really has surpassed Windows http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,120763,pg,3,00.asp and is jockeying his position in the PC race. Just speculation.

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Frogboy
macrobaye
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #16 June 5, 2005 9:53:35 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Hmm...this could be seen as a good thing...

Chances are, if this is not a rumor, Apple will only be adopting an Intel chip for one product, like a cheaper portable or maybe a faster Mac mini.

If not, the more realistic idea would be Intel creating PowerPC chips. An Intel G5.

Also, Apple would NEVER allow OSX onto other PCs, so this would still be a mac thing.

I'm afraid that the title of this article couldn't be more wrong. Don't say goodbye to mac. With this is play, say a long awaited farewell to total MS domination. Think about this:

The best hardware running the best software on the best operating system. Microsoft need not apply!
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Frogboy
Jafo
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #17 June 5, 2005 10:20:49 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Skinner mrbiotech ... careful how you do your 'quotes'....don't inadvertently hilight parts of the page....just the text....
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Frogboy
caseagainstfaith
Join Date 11/2003
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Reply #18 June 5, 2005 10:34:37 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Intel makes more then just x86 chips, so why assume that apple is planning to switch to the x86 architecture?


What are you suggesting... Mac's running on the ITanium??? I think we can safely rule that out. Now, they make a number of flavors of x86 chips, some dual core, some not. Some with x64, some not. But, we can be pretty sure it will be something of the x86 variety. And most likely x64 I would think.
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Frogboy
caseagainstfaith
Join Date 11/2003
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Reply #19 June 5, 2005 10:38:48 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
You really haven't looked at the G5 architecture, have you?
Your spurious claims are not supported by facts.


I haven't personally looked at the G5 architecture, but, I have indeed heard many many people say that it is a very good design. Yet, the claim for why they are switching is because IBM is having misgivings about making the G5? I hate to see the loss of a competing archetecture if for no reason than competition is good.
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Frogboy
David Lin
Join Date 08/2002
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Reply #20 June 6, 2005 1:00:03 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I have no experience on software side, hence, hard to tell if there will be any advantage/hurdle for switching from PowerPC to x86 at instruction level. However, I'm kind of wondering that the reason for Apple to jump to the Intel/x86 bandwagon is because the volume of Apple boxes/systems won't be attractive/huge enough for sustaining IBM to customize their Power/PowerPC-based silicons for desktop systems. While Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo all debut/announce/plan their next-generation game consoles with more powerful PowerPC (either 1 or 3- PowerPC 970-class cores inside) core(s) inside (at least, Apple doesn't have PowerPC 970 running at higher than 3GHz frequency), Apple is awfully left behind as its flagship G5 system will look not that great compared to those game consoles (say 2.4GHz G5 system from Apple with one PowerPC 970 inside compared to 3 x PowerPC 970 @ 3.2GHz cores inside XBox 360 Xenon processor). Unlike Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo, Apple doesn't pay extra money for customized processors (IBM is moving into more design service instead of selling the standard parts like PowerPC 970 chips), therefore, I suspect that from IBM perspective it may not be lucrative enough to focus on Apple account compared to other customers.

If Apple continues hanging with PowerPC architecture, Microsoft can easily step into Apple's turf by enabling Windows running on XBox 360 and re-brand/sell the three-core inside XBox box as Super G5 system (while you may only need to pay less than a Mac Mini price to get XBox 360 with three 64-bit PowerPC 970-class cores inside).

In a nutshell, I think IBM dumps Apple somehow (as IBM's resource is sucking into developing customized chips for others but not Apple).

Steve Jobs may make a right choice for the time being, but in long run, could Apple be as influential to Intel chip architecture as it used to be to PowerPC chip architecture before? I don't think so ...
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Frogboy
TexasJoe
Join Date 12/2004
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Reply #21 June 6, 2005 3:05:08 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Steve Jobs may make a right choice for the time being, but in long run, could Apple be as influential to Intel chip architecture as it used to be to PowerPC chip architecture before? I don't think so ...


Intel vs AMD competition prompts each party to innovate regularly while I believe IBM and its PowerPC chip was in a niche subjected to little competition.
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Frogboy
Eroticus Prime
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #22 June 6, 2005 3:42:55 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
There's no reason why Apple would switch to a different architecture from one they had a hand in designing themselves. Slashdot agrees with me:
http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=151621&cid=12720530
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Frogboy
DesignCaddy
Join Date 06/2003
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Reply #23 June 6, 2005 12:41:52 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
according to an article carried in reuters this weekend, apple is switching from IBM because IBM can not deliver on promises of productivity and technology advancement. the way i take this, is, IBM is slowing apple up through both merchandise availability and processor performance that isn't growing as fast as - say, intel.

intel certainly has great capacity to build chips.

apple's initial plan, according to reuters, is to place intel chips in the cheaper computers first.. to keep a mac mini and imac cheap. thus far, it would seem that apple is counting on a 'lesser' processor for its 'lesser' computer. but in fact, in two years apple is to place intel chips into its high performance systems as well. now, i say - whoa - what happened to all that talk about how PC processors (cough*intel*cough) have always been inferior to the ones in macs? i'm very axious to read Job's retoric... if he answers the question at all, he will most likely focus on windows as being an inferior platform, and not neccessarily the processor, as a reason why macs "perform better".

in addition, apple doesnt have to use your run-of-the-mill processor, you say.. they will use a high performance processor not used in your general windows computer. so i say, look at what intel did when the G5 came out.. intel scrambeled to increase processor bandwidth and released the xeron and 64bit chips to compete. i don't believe intel has tricks up its sleeve that it would save for apple and not windows based machines. my guess (and i am an amateur) is that apple won't have anything the rest of us don't have - be it dual processor, or intel's top of the line 64 bit chip. this will be a kick in the teeth for them because in any case software will need to be rewritten. its not as dramatic for the OS - osx is unix based, right? well we run unix on intel machines all the time. but other software will take a hit.

additionally, macs don't become normal pc's because as someone said, you still have apple packaged hardware with apple specific drivers, and you still have mac os- and lets face it - the only thing that makes a mac, a mac, is the OS. [...trust me on that..]

i am confident, however, that with OSX to include Intel processor and mainboard drivers - you will see in many cases people trying to use OSX to replace windows on their intel-based machines. i am more certain however, that people will sit back and say "well what's so special about a mac, now?", and many people who were planning to upgrade to apple machines will now sit on their hands until this plays out more completely, as existing macvocates invent new ways to label your now 'step sister' pc machines inferior..

// my two cents
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Frogboy
caseagainstfaith
Join Date 11/2003
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Reply #24 June 6, 2005 4:11:50 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
As to the debate as to whether the Intel chips that Apple will be using are "x86" or not, you'll notice that in the press release, the phrase "X86" was NOT used. However all the technical data on the Apple developer site indicates that it will in fact be a Pentium-equivalent CPU.
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Frogboy
jaydub
Join Date 11/2001
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Reply #25 June 6, 2005 5:59:57 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Will that also mean that the Mac OS will compete directly with Windows = users have an option of Mac/Windows OS ?
will Mac OS on Intel run windows programs?

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