Airport screeners could see X-rated X-rays

ZubaZ

Join Date 11/2001

+917

I heard the other day that the airlines will be asking for full name and birth date now. Because there were too many mix-ups with people having the same name as suspected terrorists.

My problem with this is why is homeland security waiting for suspected terrorists to board airplanes? If we think these people might be dangerous . .. find them, investigate them, put them away or remove them from "the LIST". Quit pretending that the security screenings are doing anything.

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the most idiotic thing that happen to me while travelling was to be told that i was not allowed to take any computer cables (power leads, ethernet etc) in my hand luggage and that i should re-pack them in my checked in stuff, as they could be used to garrot someone....then the first thing they gave me on the plane were a pair of headsets !! i mean, come on....no one believes that the security checks make a difference to a determined terrorist..all they do is create delays and give small minded power-hungry bigots a chance to flex their muscles on joe public...

i will never travel to the states again, as i refuse to be photographed and finger-printed just to enter your country..(i'm english)..it's insulting...you are giving away your basic rights of freedom to satisfy your mad president,and you are not becoming any safer, and just increasing ill-will from the other countries in the world...

sorry guys...

i have many many american friends...i know the vast majority of you are totally cool people...how can you sit back and let this happen? oh, by the way, i decided to pack it all in and go live on a tropical island away from the the madness....

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If they were really serious about Homland Security they would be enforcing the border laws like the Constitution requires.

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It's all about appearance. The vast majority of these 'security' procedures have nothing at all to do with actual security, and a lot to do with presenting the appearance of security. They'd rather make it look like they're doing something (however ineffectual) instead of actually implementing a process that would have an effect.

Any moderately motivated individual with an intent to do harm could easily get through these jokes of a security check with no diminution at all of their ability to do harm.

"But we took away granny's knitting needles! See how we're protecting your flight?"

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And the most nauseating of all these dictatorial diversions?

It is that this kind of fascist crap, keeping people scared,
frustrated and under the jackboot should not exist at all.

The whole 9/11 so called "terror attacks" were not
made by any foreign "terrorists".

But were orchestrated to make the american people
(and the world) tow in line behind the real bandits.

That is what the whole world is now slowly but surely
finding out.

Educate yourself and your loved ones, and work for the truth.

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kona0197

Join Date 02/2003

+86

The whole 9/11 so called "terror attacks" were not
made by any foreign "terrorists".

But were orchestrated to make the american people
(and the world) tow in line behind the real bandits.

I find it hard to believe that 9/11 was orchestrated. Why would our own Government lie to us and then kill it's own people? Just to go to war? I think not.

Granted the Government has been known to tell a lie here or there but to say the Government staged 9/11? Impossible.

Keep in mind many countries and people hate the US. And keep in mind the fact that Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban were around before 9/11.

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But were orchestrated to make the american people
(and the world) tow in line behind the real bandits.

That is what the whole world is now slowly but surely
finding out.

Educate yourself and your loved ones, and work for the truth.

You, educate yourself! The good ol' government conspiracy... Starting rumors about aliens, now 9/11? I think you're going too far and lack respect to all those who mourned in the wake of 9/11, including, to your disappointment, government officials and our President.

will never travel to the states again, as i refuse to be photographed and finger-printed just to enter your country..(i'm english)..it's insulting...you are giving away your basic rights of freedom to satisfy your mad president,and you are not becoming any safer, and just increasing ill-will from the other countries in the world...

Personally I think this is actually the smartest move from the TSA and the Homeland Secy Dept (and not our President, he has nothing to do there). If the data collected are handled effectively it'll give us a true edge over terrorists. Now if this small detail which I believe does not deny you your basic rights under Fed'l law, as a human being or say, international law, then TOO BAD! Be more selfless! I mean you should rather feel like you've deserved it when you get thru everything, screenings and security checks and all...

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they want to introduce X-ray machines that let people see through our clothes

...gives new meaning to the term: "I'm just checking out that package"

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Education for all
Link

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Ok, ok. I think that the 9/11 stuff was more of a reminder from Bin Ladin to the president to get his act together.

I also think this war in Iraq is BS, as well. All your president wants is the oil.

btw: I'm Canadian, and we were just screwed around by our Premier (Gordon Cambell, or however his name is spelled), so none of us are happy.

Note: Bin Ladin was trained in the USA, for your information. (weird, eh?)

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Truthfully I don't think a 9/11 discussion makes any sense here. The article is about security, not about 9/11.

I don't mind increased security per se. However as many have pointed out, there is no really increased security. A few weeks ago I travelled to Europe for a family visit. Let's just say I forgot to take something out of my pocket and didn't even realize it until I was already in Europe. None of the screenings found it. It was metal, and could be considered a weapon.

So, for me, the security measures really seem to be a joke, and a rather annoying joke at that. Lets face it: Most hijackings are done in countries with a lot less security than most Europe and of course the US. Introducing even more annoying and in this case invasive "security checks" is just wrong.

I can understand anyone who does not want to travel to the US anymore. I sure would not visit a country that demands my fingerprints and photo on file. What's next? DNA profiling? I wouldn't be surprised.

However... to be fair, lets see:
Travelling from the US to Europe I passed ONE security check.
On the way back I passed THREE checks before I even boarded the plane. Then one more in the US (not counting customs and such).

Did any of them seem comprehensive to me? Nope. Particularly not since after the screening in the US I saw a duty free shop which sold nail clippers and nail files... both items security would confiscate. Except that I was already past the security check...

This is just one more nail in the coffin of privacy. And one more step towards Big Brother.

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XX

Join Date 03/2001

+23

For some people, there's conspiracy everywhere.

You know those fat-free stuff? Not fat-free.

You think you was birthed by your parents? Actually it's a cover-up conspiracy of fact that you was born in a lab.

9/11? Government staged it.

Moon landing? Government and NASA conspiracy.

American colonization by British? British cover-up of fake American landing.

Humans? There is no such thing as humans on earth. We are just cover-up of certain off-world government to hide their genetic experiments.

Or it may not be a conspiracy at all...

Maybe I started some conspiracy stories for other people to write a book about and make millions.

Back to subject... I am getting concerned about this. It sounds so ineffective so it's not even funny.

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I think y'all are giving way too much credit to our government for stuff they could not do even if they wanted. About the job the TSA performs at airports: sure there's room for improvement but one has to admit they've come a long way from what used to be a joke. Fly to Europe and see how they handle security at airports.

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I will make this a combined response to kona0197, TexasJoe and Mr XX in order not to bore anyone to death.

Let's start with what the small pack of "white-collar criminals" unfortunately in the government, their cronies in the military- and news-corporations and other places of power can and can't do, will and won't do in order to "increase and secure" their power and personal wealth.

Since you are all too young to remember what happened in the 60's when the word "communism" was frequently used as a cover to murder and imprison people who did not like the path their government was taking, your homework will start with "Operation Northwoods".

"Operation Northwoods" was the big plan to be carried out so a war could be started on Cuba.
The men behind the plan were none others than the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Luckily for the people in the U.S. and in Cuba the plan was exposed by a then more patriotic government and media, which led to it being discontinued.

From The National Security Archive web page;

"This document, titled “Justification for U.S. Military Intervention in Cuba” was provided by the JCS to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara on March 13, 1962, as the key component of Northwoods.

Written in response to a request from the Chief of the Cuba Project, Col. Edward Lansdale, the Top Secret memorandum describes U.S. plans to covertly engineer various pretexts that would justify a U.S. invasion of Cuba.

These proposals - part of a secret anti-Castro program known as Operation Mongoose - included staging the assassinations of Cubans living in the United States, developing a fake “Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington,” including “sink[ing] a boatload of Cuban refugees (real or simulated),” faking a Cuban airforce attack on a civilian jetliner, and concocting a “Remember the Maine” incident by blowing up a U.S. ship in Cuban waters and then blaming the incident on Cuban sabotage."

Download and read the original document in pdf format;
Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff, Justification for US Military Intervention in Cuba [includes cover memoranda], March 13, 1962, TOP SECRET, 15 pp.

Pentagon Proposed Pretexts for Cuba Invasion in 1962
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/

This will be your starting point.

(Though remember, that just like in "the Matrix", once you have taken the red pill there is NO turning back. Your perception of the world and the "truths" you have been programmed with will be altered forever.)

Next on your new path is a more recent event and a group of people calling themselves PNAC, which is short for the "Project for the New American Century".

But before we go there, what would you call a group of people wanting to kill thousands of innocent americans so they could implement their plans to take over the government and start wars from which they themselves would profit immensely?

Well, let me know when you are ready to go to the next level.

And don't forget, you can always take the blue pill and lose yourself in the comfortable tv-soap-operas, sitcoms and tv-news which you have been taught to trust to "inform" you about reality.

But then again, what was the script saying which "W" so faithfully recaptured just after 9/11...."The terrorists want to take away our freedoms"....funny how it is not any foreign people taking away the freedoms of the american people but the very persons in the "administration"

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Personally I think this is actually the smartest move from the TSA and the Homeland Secy Dept (and not our President, he has nothing to do there). If the data collected are handled effectively it'll give us a true edge over terrorists. Now if this small detail which I believe does not deny you your basic rights under Fed'l law, as a human being or say, international law, then TOO BAD! Be more selfless! I mean you should rather feel like you've deserved it when you get thru everything, screenings and security checks and all.

how does this stop unknown terrorists? get real...it's just another stage of big brother collecting information for no other reason than control and a reason to justify the huge budgets your fantastically efficient intelligent services (is that an oxymoron?) demand

I think y'all are giving way too much credit to our government for stuff they could not do even if they wanted. About the job the TSA performs at airports: sure there's room for improvement but one has to admit they've come a long way from what used to be a joke. Fly to Europe and see how they handle security at airports.

this whole reason 9/11 happened you 'you' is that american airport security was a joke...europe has been battling american sponsored terrorism (the ira) for years and has had very tight security...

you're obviously from the same state as bush, both geographically and mentally...when will you realise that killing people around the world is not the way to make friends...the whole american foreign policy stinks of isolation and ignorance...wake up, there's a whole other world outside good old texas.....we should try building bridges, not blowing them up at every opportunity

if a fraction of the money spent so far on the war in iraq (a country that had nothing to do with 9/11) was spent on delveloping nations the american government would become the greatest force in erradicating world poverty, disease and hardship....and along the way would stop becoming the target for terrorism

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1846

Citizen lilstarfish

Since you are all too young to remember what happened in the 60's

When you were just a twinkle in your old man's eye I was halfway through my teens. I'm old enough NOT to remember the 60's ...

Don't assume everyone is young and innocent/ignorant....it's usually a mistake that leads to embarrassment...

As for ID checks, etc...I'm all FOR Genetic fingerprinting and Photo IDs...for every person on the planet.

Too often it's the rights of the criminal that 'must' be protected...at the expense of the victim's.

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Citizen liquidguru: you're going way outta line. I just stated facts! Airport security is tighter in the US than in most European countries. Look at the two recent commercial airplanes that had to be diverted to Bangor, ME because of Italy's and France's casual handling of security. And yeah security used to be a joke before 9/11, even here in Texas (eg, Dallas-Fort Worth Airport) where serious stuff could get thru security. It was simply appalling to see what was able to get through on TSA's random inspections. From there on it can just get better!

how does this stop unknown terrorists? get real...it's just another stage of big brother collecting information for no other reason than control and a reason to justify the huge budgets your fantastically efficient intelligent services (is that an oxymoron?) demand

where d'y'all come from? Big Brother, aliens, extraterrestrials, it's science fiction! C'mon!

I guess it's also easier for foreigners like Brits to criticize our security policies since they didn't have any terrorist attacks on their soil lately!

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well, i disagree with the uk's anti-terrorism policies too....they are trying to introduce complusary id cards for the entire population...another complete waste of time and money, due the to huge number of visitors to the country how arrive and don't need an id card....the uk government is trying tho do the same thing as the us...frighten the population so they can pass laws the erode your rights as an indivual and increases theirs....as you can see from what gets through airport security and still no more terroist attacks on planes it is a pointless exercise...not pointless to have security but pointless in trying to make it even more intrusive...x-ray machines that look through your clothes?? i am innocent until proven guilty...that is my basic human right...

i think that that main problem is you will never stop terrorism by trying to attack and wipe them out...that just breeds more hatred and creates more potential terrorists....the current policy of fortress usa does not seem to be working to stop the root causes of terrorism, rather it seems to be creating more ammo (political) for the critics of the usa to use...you also won't stop terroism by making it harder for people to fly in airplanes...you'll just make airlines bankrupt and lose thousands of jobs..

I guess it's also easier for foreigners like Brits to criticize our security policies since they didn't have any terrorist attacks on their soil lately!

as for this comment....i was brought up in the centre of london and had to deal with 25 years of bombs placed under friends parents cars, of bombs placed in street trash cans outside busy shops, of bombs placed in office blocks, so please don't say the brits know nothing about terrorist attacks...the worst thing about the ira was that they were funded 95% by americans.....i abhor violence in all forms...i think as that we as the human race must overcome these tendancies to be afriad of anything the seems 'foreign'...i have lived all over the world and i know that the vast majority of people are just like you and me and just want to live in peace and quiet....however we should stop trying to tell everyone 'foreign' that we know better than them and they should be like us....don't forget that you (americans) are 'foreign' to everyone else in the world....we should respect everyone else's point of view...i certainly respect citizen texasjoe's point of view and his right to disagree with anything i say...at least we have the right to do that

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Welcome to my world Brad.

I have been writing about some of the current and suggested security practices used by the TSA for a while now. As a business traveler who clocks over 100,000 air miles a year, i find some of the methods very effective, some mildly effective, and some simply band aid tactics. As you pointed out, the weapons Mohammad Atta and his associates used were actually legal to carry on the planes. Obviously they have changed the approved item list many times since. Some of the changes have been wise ones, some just moronic.

Cases in point...

1. Lighters. This came about because of the case of Richard Reid, the "shoe bomber". This dumbass tried to light C-4 with a book of matches. Obviously he didnt know much about plastic explosives. You need a detonater and a blasting cap to set it off. So because of this, the TSA decided to ban lighters of all kinds in carry ons and checked luggage.

2. Plastic cups in first class on the ground, glass in the air. I like my free upgrades. And i get them often (Gold Medallion on Delta). When you get on the plane, the flight attendant always asks you if you want a drink. They bring it in a plastic cup while on the ground. When you are at cruising altitude, you get drinks in glasses. If you have a roll of medical or electrical tape and a ruler (both of which are ok to carry) and three minutes in the bathroom...You have a pretty neat little knife. Perfect for slashing. Im sure if the TSA realized this was possible they would ban rulers instead of the glasses so as not to offend their top end customers by bringing them their chardonnay in a plastic cup.

3. the "peephole" x-ray machine (my nickname for it). Anybody who knows anything about airport x-ray machines will tell you that they do the job as is. There is no way in hell you can get a gun or a knife on board. The density of the metal simply cannot get by the machine. The proposed new x-ray machines allow for a full view of someones body. In theory it sounds good, but it is definatley an invasion of privacy. Do we really need the potential lawsuits from this one? I for one would think that if there is any suspicion that someone is carrying a weapon, they would warrant secondary screening.

4. Crank up the screening for passengers, ignore cargo flights. Let's face it, 9/11 will never happen again via commercial airliners. The current security is just too tight. Cargo planes on the other hand have not recieved the security screening makeover that passenger flights have. I think it would be a hell of a lot easier to slip a bomb or terrorists inside a shipping container. Pilot doors on cargo planes also have not been upgraded to passenger plane levels as well.

I am all for making airline travel a lot safer than it was, but the governments methods are not very effective. I have spent a lot of time during layovers talking to TSA employees, and i bellieve that's their general consensus as well.

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Lo Admin Jafo.

"Don't assume everyone is young and innocent/ignorant....it's usually a mistake that leads to embarrassment..."

Indeed...and my address to kona0197, TexasJoe and Mr XX was created that way since they were not born then
and also seem not to remember these things from history class(if they were ever taught about it? I know I never
were, I had to research a lot to know what I know today).

As for ID checks, etc...I'm all FOR Genetic fingerprinting and Photo IDs...for every person on the planet.
"Too often it's the rights of the criminal that 'must' be protected...at the expense of the victim's."

Really? And how does treating everyone as a criminal help that?

Here is a healthy quote for everyone to ponder uppon.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin

And back to your tongue-in-cheek comment;
"I'm old enough NOT to remember the 60's ..."

I must counter with another healthy quote;
"Those who do not learn from the mistakes of history are doomed to repeat them."

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Citizen liquidguru: fair enough

...you'll just make airlines bankrupt and lose thousands of jobs..

At least I agree with you on that. When too much security endangers legacy airlines like AA/ UA/ DA/ NW... the TSA should really take a good look at what's time consuming and unnecessary and what's efficient and critical to maintain security - and then make the right choice. Needless to recall that low-cost airlines bear more responsibility here. Some security checks just make it worse.

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XX

Join Date 03/2001

+23

I was thinking about national ID... It's justa step up from current ID. That's all. As long as there's nothing added into the ID itself, such as tracking.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1846

Citizen lilstarfish

It's the same old adage...those with nothing to hide have nothing to fear.

I can see a policeman walking towards me and not break out into a sweat...because I don't break the law. Having an ID card that 'guarantees' I am who I say I am won't hurt at all...it will prevent identity theft....something which is a serious issue.

Don't fall into that trap of lauding and expounding the 'wise words' of some dead bloke called Franklin to justify any stance, one way or another.....cos shock-horror, he is JUST some dead bloke who had something to say. He's no more adroit or visionary than anyone else.

Currently I have a Photo ID for my driver's licence...a criminal offence NOT to carry it while driving...

I have a Photo ID as a Registered Building Practitioner .... to police fraud in the building industry....my details are available to anyone 24/7 online for that end.

I have a photo ID as an FIA Official in Formula One ... to police who I am and show I am competent and trustworthy in Motor Racing.

Then there's all those ID records for credit cards, club memberships....and don't forget passports.

Why NOT set all these up with data on the one card complete with DNA, etc ....if nothing else it'd make life simpler....

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"It's the same old adage...those with nothing to hide have nothing to fear."

How wonderful if that was actually true.

The sad truth is that if a corrupt government feel that your perfectly legitimate and lawful thoughts are "dangerous"
to their criminal dealings you are considered an "enemy".

I believe we all remember "W's" smirk when he repeated the words;
"If you are not with us, you are with the terrorists!"
*cheers, applause, frantic flagwaving and God damn any "unpatriotic" person daring to question it all*

Background on Cointelpro:
http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointelpro/cointel.htm

"Don't fall into that trap of lauding and expounding the 'wise words' of some dead bloke called Franklin to justify any stance, one way or another.....cos shock-horror, he is JUST some dead bloke who had something to say."

I find it hard to see how repeating good advice would be "falling into a trap".

When it comes to photo ID, my photo is on my ID/drivers license and also in my passport.
I have nothing against that and they give me access to wherever I need to be.

The problem is that adding more stuff to it will NOT "make people safer",
especially since biometric technology is unsafer than for example memorized
passwords though some people who make money of those systems like to claim
otherwise.

Just to take a few examples in no particular order;

1. Fingerprint Scanners Still Easy to Fool
http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/06/25/1315254&tid=172

2. How Secure Is Microsoft's Fingerprint Reader?
http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/01/31/1457226&tid=172&tid=191&tid=4

3. Library to Require Fingerprint to Use PCs
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/05/20/1646225&tid=158&tid=103

4. How to fake fingerprints?
http://www.ccc.de/biometrie/fingerabdruck_kopieren.xml?language=en

5. Carjackers swipe biometric Merc, plus owner's finger
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/04/04/fingerprint_merc_chop/

6. Prepare to be scanned
http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=2246191

7. ID theft is inescapable
http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2005/03/23/id_theft_cannot_be_escaped/

And one thing that persons advocating the idea of keeping check
on where and what all people are up to at any given moment like
to spin is the "convenience". But, they never mention the fact
that the "convenience" of having all information about you and your habits
in one place actually subverts your security, since, as anyone
working with security will tell you, the most secure practice
is to spread out the information you want to keep safe
from unauthorized use.

To conclude, it seems that George Orwell's book 1984 would
be a good thing for many people to pick up from your local
library, but then again, now that the reading habbits are
monitored to spot potential "terrorists" maybe getting it
from your local Barnes & Noble would be better.
Using cash of course

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1846

To conclude, it seems that George Orwell's book 1984 would
be a good thing for many people to pick up from your local
library

Again....I read that a hell of a long time before 1984....back when '84 was the 'distant future'...

Re the 'famous bloke quote'....the quote is assigned pith and substance through it's author....or is it the author is assigned pith through his quote?

Some known or unknown twit stringing words together is just that. Whether you obsess over their grandeur or not should not be based on 'who' said it but on what was said...

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Airport screeners could see X-rated X-rays

Airport screeners could see X-rated X-rays

More dumb ideas courtesy of the government