azdruid

Join Date 11/2002

Windows: The Rebuttal

Multiple Personality Disorder

And so, the triumphant sequel to OS Wars. I recently (eh. two weeks ago) wrote an article, extolling the virtues of Linux. As an avid reader of Slashdot, NewsForge, OSnews and others, I am consistently bombarded by newsposts of the latest and greatest Linux achievements, as well as a steady stream of anti-Windows blogs. I'd like to take the opportunity to offer a response in defense of Windows (more specifically, Windows XP).

I have very little patience for newbies who write articles about an operating system without having truly mastered it. I often read poorly supported arguments for either Linux or Windows that consistently use a generic overused topic. For instance, many firmly entrenched Linux users are not willing to try using Windows because a) its not opensource

it costs money c) corporations are evil. Windows users often knock Linux by saying a) its too hard to install stuff

its free so it must suck c) lazy.

Anyway. Onto the subject of misconceptions regarding Windows XP. I recently read an article somewhere (cant remember where..sorry) that said that it was easier to convert newbies to a different OS than it was experienced users, because we know what we like and fear change. I agree with this, for the most part. So, why not use Linux exclusively?

- Even though I love apt and yum, theres still something nice about being able to download one file that walks you through installation and puts a shortcut in the launch menu (YES, I am aware that this is so because there is only one distribution platform.). On Linux, there is Autopackage, but its still in its infancy.
- When I search the Internet for software, I expect it to run on Windows. Its a conditioning that's sunk in because of Windows' prevalence. Windows just happens to be the platform that more people write for.
- Drivers. I am aware that Linux counterparts are continuously improving, but like I previously stated, its just a lot easier knowing there will be Windows drivers on the manufacturer's website than resorting to Google.
- Faster. This one definitely needs clarification. Myself, I happen to find Explorer considerably more responsive than both Konqueror and Nautilus. Plus, Windows boots faster (cold to desktop).
- This sort of goes along with the installer point, but I happen to appreciate only having to bother ensuring that program X is compatible with Win32. The downside here is that there is one way to do a lot of things; choice is sacrificed. In some cases, I would rather take a sold, universal foundation over choice, especially if I don't find any outstanding problems with the given solution.

I use a heavily modified version of Windows that is highly superior to the vanilla dumbass edition. It also clears up a lot of problems that most people complain about.

-- ITS SLOW. Hell yes! XP is horribly slow. The trick is to make it go faster. How does one do this? if you have your original XP disc, you have the option of using nLite (Link), which allows you to remove components from XP you won't use like extra services, and other components. It also lets you slipstream SPs and internally tweak stuff. Of all the programs I have ever used in my life, nLite ranks very high on that list. I won't go into more detail about its usage, since I am sure you can figure it out.

Also, TURN OFF extra services! This is the single most set of components about XP that people overlook. In most cases, over half of the currently running services can safely be disabled, decreasing memory usage. Microsoft seemed to think that Joe Dumbass was very interested in running a VPN, operating a web server, and managing remote terminals. Sound familiar? I am going to speculate that no, they do not. Sometime I will post a more indepth guide on removing services. If you want to try it yourself, go to Start > Run > type services.msc

Here are some other things I do to make Windows run better:

- Roll my install out with nLite. I probably already mentioned that. Did I also mention that it is a wonderful, wonderful piece of software?
- Never install bloatware. (ie Java, .NET fx.........)
- Run Windowblinds. I love eyecandy)
- Use a hardware firewall, which eliminates the need for a software one.
- Be intelligent. No you dont need antivirus software either.
- Use Firefox and Thunderbird. There is NO excuse for not doing this.
- If you share my passion for continuous music, do NOT use Windows Media Player or another bloated jukebox. Use Winamp or Musikcube

You know, I sincerely want to go on, but lack of structure in this piece would only confuse us both. I hope this information can help you.

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This Is An Ok Article But I'm Having Trouble With Two Opposing Comments You Made.

- Roll my install out with nLite. I probably already mentioned that. Did I also mention that it is a wonderful, wonderful piece of software?

And

- Never install bloatware. (ie Java, .NET fx.........)

I Don't Know How You Run nLite, But You Need The .Net Framework Installed To Run It.

Cheers.

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kona0197

Join Date 02/2003

+86

- Use Firefox and Thunderbird. There is NO excuse for not doing this.

Yes there is. I don't like Firefox or Thunderbird. I'm a IE fan. Besides TB can't check my hotmail and Outlook can.

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Im actually having trouble with the entire article... a few simple minor tweaks really is all that should be necessary to run a full blown XP installation with all the "buzzers and bells" IE, Win Media, etc,etc
I argue that there isnt any reason people cant run the entire ball of wax with little to no noticible "sluggishness".

Windows XP is a "Memory Hog" thats a given, the measly 256mb of RAM most of the new generic systems are sold with today is the bare minimum to run it..
Beef up your RAM.. At least a gig, especially if your going to be running all of it at once..
Processor helps too..beef that up to the max your MoBo can be upgraded..
After that, sure..turn a few services off, dont need alot of them anyway..
But no one should have to believe they need to go without IE, Windows Media or anything else due to a slow OS..

The OS is actually quite fast if it has the resources to draw from..

Zero

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Good coverage! I'm finding that the boot-up time of Linux (SLOW!!!) can be sped up dramatically by creating a custom kernel and knowing when to select a module install versus inclusion in the kernel. It's a time-intensive setup, but it makes a significant difference.

With regards to .NET and Java, so many applications require these in recent years that I'm amazed you do without them.

XP really has turned out to be a nice operating system. Sure, it's not perfect, but most users have completely accepted it and are relatively pleased. Pitching Longhorn to new users will be a hard-sell, especially considering its multiple delays and consistent shedding of touted features (i.e.: WinFS). Ultimately, Longhorn doesn't provide the jump in productivity/stability that WinXP had over Win2K and WinMe. Hopefully it will surprise us!

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kona0197

Join Date 02/2003

+86

Beef up your RAM.. At least a gig, especially if your going to be running all of it at once..

512 is more than enough. I have YET to max my memory out.

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not bad for an article but memory really has no major effect on WinXP. Until about Dec. of last year I have run XP since it came out on my PII 450 with only 128 RAM. I could do this due to disabling alot of unneeded services and it ran perfectly. A gig of ram is more than most users need.

And one other point, instead of writing another article about tweaking services, point users to this webpage (which is the best place on the net to figure out how to make their OS run better):

www.blackviper.com

(unfortunately it seems to be down as write this, which is a first in 5 years for me.)

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I too am having trouble with this article. Seems to me that you are not all that familiar with the Windows environment - Personally I have never had a problem with WinXP and my laptop only has 512 MB RAM and I run WB, Desktop Sidebar, WinFX; additionally, I have tried Thunderbird and I don;t like it as it doesn;t offer me an intuitive interface whereas Outlook 2003 does. I have tried several versions of Linux all downloaded free off the linux mirrors and to be quite frank with you I am sick of hearing how "free" linux is. To get a decent build with any kind of usuable software one has to PURCHASE it, so please do not tout about the altruistic enlightened attitude of an Open Source OS. And for your information even doing a Google search for drivers doesn;t guarantee that one will find drivers to work with Linux.

It is like I always say one uses the OS that does what one needs it to do whether it is Mac, Windows, Linux, or whatever... Not everyone has to like or work in the same environment as everyone else.

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WOWfactor: You can get a .NET hack for nLite on its website, allowing you to run it without really having to install the full framework. This is what I do

kona: Gmail, my friend! If you need an invite, just ask

Double Zero: Myself I do not use those extra components, so removing extraneous software does speed up my system by making the registry and system folders lighter. As stated, I use Mozilla software and do not need IE and OE. WMP? I use Winamp, which is vastly superior. There are many superior alternatives to the preinstalled software if one bothers to look. And I do have 1GB of RAM, and multitask heavily.

mrbiotech: Yeah, like newsreaders. I think though, in the end, its just better to try and find alternatives than submitting and installing .NET. Interpreted applications run too slow for my taste....

devTekPro: It's your own experience and choice. I prefer to make Windows run as fast as it possibly can, but if you are satisfied with your performance then I can do nothing for you. As for my like of Thunderbird, its because I do not need the extra features and bloat of Outlook. Your needs are obviously different than mine and I would be interested in hearing more about what you do with your system. Regarding opensource, there are many opensource applications that match and supercede commercial apps in quality. Firefox beats IE any day, and IE is bundled with a commercial operating system costing hundreds of dollars. VideoLAN and Media Player Classic offer players that are completely free and are superior to such like PowerDVD. You just saved $60 bucks. This is just one example, but if you have an open mind and are willing to look for alternatives, than you will find a treasure trove of software on the Internet.

I was, by the way, supporting Windows in this article. Opensource software was more of my own preference. And yes, its everyone's own opinion. This is my blog, so naturally I am going to post my own opinions. If you have any suggestions or recommendations, please by all means tell me. I appreciate constructive criticism.

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azdruid - I meant no disrespect...really. I was simply pointing out that I have had no performance issues with any of my boxes (which I build myself) or my laptop. I have no problem with the speed of WinXP with the sys stats I posted earlier, as I said I run a lot of "eye candy software", Dreamweaver, Adobe Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro 8, and more. I like Outlook because as you point out it meets my needs. I work in a corporate environment and it allows me to do the things I need to do: share calendars, folders and schedules with the people that I need to

It syncs with my PocketPC. Personally I don't find it bloated.

I have a very open mind and I have used a lot of Open Source software and I was simlply relaying to you and your readers my experience with Linux. Being a Network/Web Developer person in my job I try to learn what I can to support my environment or to suggest new solutions even if they are not mainstream. and to get a good build of Linux with software and support one has to pay for it: Linux is not for the average person free. Please don't take my coments regarding Linux as a personal affront,that is just my opinion and experience, as well as that of my colleagues.

As far as the other open source software available, the average home user is not going to know where it is, how to use it or how to get support for it. I see nothing wrong with the apps that are included with WinXP: the average user can install it and do what they need to do without installing any third-party apps, there is nothing wrong with that. Those of us who are more technically inclined can surf the web install whatever apps we want because we know what we are doing, we know the limitations of compatbility with said apps, and we know how to get support for such apps. I use WMP10 to play my DVDs when I am on the road: so I don't have to use PowerDVD's full version to do so, I like WMP10, it works and I have a great experience when I watch my movie: what more do I need to watch a DVD when I am sitting in a hotel room? I can listen to all of my tunes as well in any format but RealPlayer and iTunes, and yes, I have iTunes installed for the the music I can get with it.

Yes, I agree, the Windows OS (whichever flavor you want to choose) is over priced, but there is a lot of other software on the market that I find over priced as well. At least in the case of Windows I am guaranteed that I will get any patches or updates free of charge and will be notified of them. As long as BillG continues to do that I will continue to use the Windows environment.

Again, I meant no disrespect to your opinion, I fully got that you support Windows in this article, and I am not trying to get you to change your mind; however, I like you feel that Windows is underrated and I wanted to add my 2 cents to your discussion. I am looking forward actually to the Longhorn Release. It is going to be introducing a new way of computing and the way we interact with our computing envrionment: I find this to be a good thing

FireFox does have better CSS support, and one can add plug-ins, and it has tabbed browsing...IE7 will have tabbed browsing, improved CSS, and.... (btw, IE7 was being developed for the Longhorn release before FireFox had its current success, I believe that IE7 is being released as a beta this summer and being made to users of WinXP SP2 because of that success.)

If you are interested you can read more of my thoughts on some Windows issues here: Link

Raymond

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Island Dog

Join Date 06/2003

+1048

Double Zero: Myself I do not use those extra components, so removing extraneous software does speed up my system by making the registry and system folders lighter. As stated, I use Mozilla software and do not need IE and OE. WMP? I use Winamp, which is vastly superior. There are many superior alternatives to the preinstalled software if one bothers to look. And I do have 1GB of RAM, and multitask heavily.

Using Mozilla software is fine, but it's nowhere near a necessity. If someone likes to use WMP thats fine. I use firefox, but thunderbird is no comparison to Outlook.

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I cant argue that, and I use FF and Thunderbird by personal choice as well. I do like Win Media player and use it instead of Winamp or any of the software recieved with my burners, but thats just a personal preference, I do have Winamp, it is just not my preferred program.
Perhaps I misunderstood, but like Raymond, I think WindowsXP catches ALOT of flack for things that arent necessarily "issues" with the OS, and really stem from "User" and or "Machine" inadequacies. Trust me I have been quick to point the finger towards MS many times only to find that I was completely wrong for doing so, I can admit that, not so many people will. ::laughs:: thats probably because they *want to hate MS for whatever reasons they can conjur..

I also demand alot from my machine, resources are rarily "un-maxed" and I have found that WindowsXP handles that just fine, MUCH better than Windows98 ever did, and stability??..sheeeesh, :

oints at windows98SE:: XP has improved 10 fold over the last OS..
So if this is any indication of MS's "forward progress" then I too can hardly wait for *Longhorn to be released..

As Raymond has pointed out, Power Users perhaps would benefit the most from your "suggestions" but I think as a general rule, the average user does not need to be worried all too much about "fine tuning" WinXP so drastically..Especially not to the point of using a "Hack" to do it..it all works well together, as it was meant to do, and with a couple of the most basic upgrades WinXP Kik's Butt!..

thunderbird is no comparison to Outlook

C'mon Island Dog, Thunderbird ROCKS!..LoL..I cant argue any comparisons between the 2 clients but I am very happy with Thunderbird. Aside from the fact that it is less prone to Hack attacks than MS's client, it works great and with each build it keeps getting better!

512 is more than enough. I have YET to max my memory out

It sure is Kona, and if your happy with that then I am happy for you as well. I'll just point out that MoBo's arent comming out with more and more RAM upgradabilities for nothing.. Bigger & Better programs need the extra boost..My MoBo for example is upgradable to 4 gigs of RAM, 1 gig of ultra low latency premium RAM seems to be more than sufficient for me, at the moment. RAM is something that is being improved upon now days, DDR, then DDR2, and so on..You can never really have "Too Much" But with the way software is heading I fear that soon 1 gig will barely be enough..
Add more RAM Kona, you'll be happy you did, especially since you seem to be a "Gamer".

Zero.

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Island Dog

Join Date 06/2003

+1048

I'm not saying Thunderbird is not a good piece of software. I use it on my laptop, but when I work from home Outlook is just better on my desktop.

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Thanks for the clarification, guys. In the future I will make more clear which audience I am writing for

I too am anxious for Longhorn and was very disapointed when MS said they'd cut out so much.

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kona0197

Join Date 02/2003

+86

kona: Gmail, my friend! If you need an invite, just ask

I have gmail and I don't like it. You alldo know that gmail scans your emails and pops up targeted advertising according to what it scans right? No thabks. Besides I run my ebay business through MSN. I don't use Outlook I use Outlook Express. I'm what they call a anti-mozilla nutcase.

Add more RAM Kona, you'll be happy you did, especially since you seem to be a "Gamer".

I'm NOT a gamer. Far from it. I have one game installed - Final Fantasy 8. I see no reason to waste money on RAM when to difference between 512 and 1 gig is hardy noticeable. Keep in mind I run a AMD powered system so I'm already on the edge of performance compared to a Pentium setup. More is NOT always better but rather sometimes a waste of money...

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WOWfactor: You can get a .NET hack for nLite on its website, allowing you to run it without really having to install the full framework. This is what I do

Interesting. Back When It Was Released, There Was No Alternative .Net. One Of The Reasons Why I Stopped Using The Program Was Because I Really Disliked The .Net Framework. Thanks For Bringing The Alternative To My Attention.
I Just Hope MS Doesn't C&D It ....

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Lantec

Join Date 07/2003

+346

xino, Blackviper seems to be down for now but there's another source for Service info at Link
It's not as good as the BlackViper site only because they don't tell you what to run and not to run. They do however let you know what the service does.

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LoL, Kona, Kona, Kona...again with the AMD BS..is there a day that goes by that you do not have that issue on your mind? ::sighs:: AMD's cost less and there is a very good reason for that, it is because they are 2cnd rate Kona.

Pentiums are the premium chip to have as far as a total computing enviroment.. Both chips have their strong and weak points and that is where your decision upon them should lay..Being that you are not a gamer then I would say your using a chip that is contradictory to your computing habits, since AMD's strong suit is infact *Gaming* but I am sure that the chip is fine with your usage since you probably wont ever really put it to the test performing the things that Pentiums are known to excel at.

Before you go off half cocked, and full of anger because I have a very different opinion than you do let me just say (again) that I have nothing against AMD and I am not "Bashing" it in any way, as you seem to love to do with Pentiums.

This argument is dead Kona, it has been litterally beaten to death, nobody wants to argue about it anymore, well except for you that is..
Give it a rest dude, and if you feel that insecure about owning an AMD then go and get a Pentium, no one is going to blame you..do whatever it takes but quit preaching to us about how superior AMD's are..it just is not so, the chips are basically "even-steven" deal with it..

Now back to our normally scheduled thread,
I believe it was *Windows* not *Processors*
Zero.

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I'm what they call a anti-mozilla nutcase

Kona, that's about the worst kept secret in the world.

As far as Windows tweaks, I've found some of the best here: http://www.pcstats.com/#news

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kona0197

Join Date 02/2003

+86

Zero I guess I shuld have reworded my respone. I was mearly trying to point out that in my speed range my AMD outdid it's P4 couterpart. No big deal I guess. I not angry with you at all.

One of these days I will need to upgrade this machine and I have been thinking about trying a Pentium setup.

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I too am anxious for Longhorn and was very disapointed when MS said they'd cut out so much.

As far as I am aware azdruid the only thing that was "cut" was the WinFS and that was so Longhorn could meet its May 2006 Launch Date - my understanding is that WinFS will be released after Longhorn is though there is no set launch date for it.

I think it is still worth looking forward to with the Avalon and Indigo technologies being revealed: not to mention the fact I won't have to upgrade right away since Avalon and Indigo are going to be released as "add-ons" to WinXP SP2 users. I can get a nice interface using Windowblinds so I can wait to get the full Longhorn and Aero envrionment

it's all about the technology anyways, right?

Raymond

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You alldo know that gmail scans your emails and pops up targeted advertising according to what it scans right?

yep...that is why I do not use it either...I do not need someone telling me what I should or shouldn't buy based on my email. Hmmmm...sounds like "legal" spam to me

Raymond

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WOWfactor: Link. At the bottom of the page, there is a download called Alternative Runtimes. This is what you want. I hate .NET as much as you.

Regarding Gmail....you do know they offer POP service right? Straight to Thunderbird. No ads.

devTek: Yeah, but you just know they cut other stuff out and aren't telling us. Granted, MS has had a lot on their hands with SP2 and Windows Server 2003, but for a product that was expected years earlier, laziness is not an excuse. Have you read Paul Thurrot's guide to Longhorn? It is definitely one of the best. Link

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kona0197

Join Date 02/2003

+86

azdruid - it's still the point that gmail still scans your mail even when you use POP access. I like my privacy thank you.

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azdruid - yes I am familiar with Thurrott - that is where I get my info. And there is no indication that they have cut anything else, so no I don;t know that they have... why are you being so quick to bash something you haven't even used yet...?

Raymond

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I'm a pessimist

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