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Double Zero
Join Date 07/2004
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Reply #26 April 5, 2005 10:44:10 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Ok Raymond, Now I hate you..I cant hate MS and your the next conveinent person to hate..LoL!! J/K

You do make very good points and I have reconsidered a few of my "Gripes" ::sighs:: I suppose there will never be an OS that is perfect, and I admit that without a doubt Windows XP is the best I have used to this day. They do only keep getting better and for that reason alone is enough to keep supporting the "Evil Empire" LoL!

As for the "Cheesy" Spyware program..I actually havent tried it yet, but I do plan on it..It's free!..LoL..We do not get many bargains like that from MS!

Ever see the movie "Kings Of Silicon Valley"? If you havent then I highly recommend it..It is a decent insight into the history between Apple and MS.. It seems Gates did a little "Pirating" of his own in the begining..Hipocrit?..LoL..you decide.

Anyway, thanks for the conversation Raymond, I have enjoyed it as well.

Take Care,
Zero.
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Elesarr
Join Date 09/2001
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Reply #27 April 5, 2005 11:08:50 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
LOL - yep I've seen it and yep I agree BillG didn't play nice at all in the beginning - but I believe that people can change over time: even if the changes are small and slow.

As long as BillG keeps releasing his bug fixes and service packs at no charge and I can be happy with the computing environment I work in on a daily basis I will continue to use Microsoft Products. I am very much looking forward to Longhorn and IE7 as well as Longhorn Server.

You are welcome for the conversation! It has been awhile since I have had a nice level headed discussion that didn't turn into a "one of has to be right" debacle.

Raymond
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_02
Join Date 12/2004
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Reply #28 April 6, 2005 7:28:14 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
As for the "Cheesy" Spyware program..I actually havent tried it yet, but I do plan on it..It's free!..LoL..We do not get many bargains like that from MS!


I have had it since it came out, Zero. To my suprise it is a very good program. Another good tool in the arsenal line of defense. Cindi
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kona0197
Join Date 02/2003
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Reply #29 April 6, 2005 9:52:30 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Raymond - I doubt it has anything to do with my drivers. I have a Nvidia Nforce2 chipset based system. after a fresh install of XP and then Nvidia drivers and then SP2 the system seems to slow down to the point where it takes close to 4 mintues to boot and on top of that 2 minutes to launch any program. Uninstalling SP2 gave me my speed back. Keep in mind I have a 1.6 Ghz CPU and 512 megs of RAM.
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Elesarr
Join Date 09/2001
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Reply #30 April 6, 2005 11:29:21 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
kona0197 - there are more drivers on your system than just the video card without being able to get my hands dirty and see what you actually have installed on your machine there is no way I can diagnose what is wrong with your machine. I can only share with you my professional experience in repairing SP2 related issues.

Again I wasn't accusing you of anything I was just telling you what I have expereiencd and what might be your problem. For as many people that have had problems with SP2 that many and more have not had any problems; my point is if it were the SP2 then everyone's computer would be messed up by installing it. If you are experiencing bootup issues then I would suggest that it is not SP2 but in fact a driver/software conflict - or you could have a faulty video card - have you tried a different card with different drivers? Do you have a video chip built-into the motherboard that you can use instead of an AGP or PCI slot and then check your boot time? There are many, many things that need to be looked at before making a blanket statement of what is wrong or isn't wrong.

Your machine specs really don't have anything to do with it. My mom is running WinXP Home on a Toshiba Satellite 2060CD with 162MB memory, a p3 proc, a 4GB harddrive, Office 2003 Professional, HP Photo Software and some other useful things (this is my old machine I bought used in 2000) and has SP2 installed with no issues of speed or anything else. BTW she had to install SP2 herself because I gave the computer to her 2 years ago and she lives in Oklahoma while I am in Seattle, so I did not do the SP2 install or anything "techie" to make it work right

Sherlock Holmes always talked about "deductive reasoning" and no matter how implausible or improbable the result it has to be the correct one if nothing else is left, so I postulate: Since all WinXP based computers in the world did not mess up and stop working properly when SP2 was installed, then we must look at the computers that were affected and see what they have in common. Almost always it is a hardware/software issue or the end-user has tweaked his/her system inappropriately which caused SP2 to have strange effects on their system.

The reason for most of these problems (as has been discussed in this thread already) is that they generally occur because of hardware and software/drivers/tweaks that do not play nice with WinXP - one of the reasons why Zero does a manual install of his auto Updates is to ensure there is no conflict, because as he has already pointed out he has his machine configured with the hardware and software he wants to use.

I really don't know how else to explain it.

Raymond
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kona0197
Join Date 02/2003
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Reply #31 April 6, 2005 12:26:32 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Raymond - Here is my system specs:

Shuttle socket A motherboard
AMD Athlon XP 2000+
Nvidia Nforce2 Chipset (NO onboard video)
Nvidia Gforce4 400 MX AGP 8x video card
512 Megs of Corsair 2100 DDR RAM
BTC 52x32x52 CDRW Dive
16x DVD-ROM
Lantec 10/100 PCI Net Card
Maxtor Fireball 3 40 Gig HDD

The only drivers I have to install when I reinstall XP are the Chipset (Nvidia) and Video Card (Nvidia) and I get those directly from Nvidias website.

I have tried old drivers and different hardware to no avail. SP2 slows the machine down to the point I want to through it across the room.
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Elesarr
Join Date 09/2001
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Reply #32 April 6, 2005 12:35:43 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I would try a completely different vendor for a video card kona. Do you have a second machine? Are you experiencing the same problems with it? Have you contacted Microsoft Support and explained to them in detail the problems you are experiencing so they can walk you through the repair/uninstall?

Using the deductive reasoning theory you only have problems when you install the drivers for the chipset and video card, so that is where the problem probably lies.

I have a box here I built myself with an Nvidia Gforce Video Card and do not experience any boot up issues or application launch problems. The conflict is on your machine and may not easily be fixed.

Again, this is not the way to try and diagnose a problem such as yours as I have no way to look physically at your machine and watch what is installed, how the install is performed, etc etc. I am not trying to put you off, just explain it is not practical.

Raymond
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Elesarr
Join Date 09/2001
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Reply #33 April 6, 2005 12:42:45 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
kona -

I went to the Nvidia site and found this response: Link in the FAQs.

What version of DirectX9 are you using?

here is another one you might want to look at: Link

As I said there are many many factors involved.

Raymond
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kona0197
Join Date 02/2003
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Reply #34 April 6, 2005 1:18:58 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I'm using the latest DirectX and latest Nvidia drivers.

Even when I try using another video card the system still is very slow when using SP2.
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Double Zero
Join Date 07/2004
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Reply #35 April 6, 2005 4:45:10 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I have had it since it came out, Zero. To my suprise it is a very good program. Another good tool in the arsenal line of defense. Cindi


Thanks Cindi, I will hopefully have time to install and run it tonite. Im sure it's a decent utility, I actually didnt mean to "Bash" it in itself, it was more of a comparison towards the cost of Windows, the rules attached, and the offer of a free spyware program..just doesnt seem to add up..
But, thanks to Raymond, I have redone the math!..LoL, and it does "Add -Up"

It is easy to forget that MS does infact offer us free patches and upgrades to the OS for as long as 10 years after the release of the last service pack.I am still able to get Windows98SE updates for a couple of my machines and alot of my friends. After considering tha,t as Raymond explained it to me (not in so many words, but I got it..LoL) I really have no justification to complain. MS does "take Care of Us" all a little better than they get credit for.
I just allowed my ornery side to get the better part of reason is all, I am better now..LoL

Zero.
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Elesarr
Join Date 09/2001
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Reply #36 April 6, 2005 5:56:19 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
kona - the first link I posted for you to read indicates that the latest Nvidia drivers are not compatible with DirectX9.0c which is latest version of DirectX...

It really is not possible for me to diagnose your computer in this manner: however, by reading what you have posted and using deductive theory the problem with SP2 is going to be tied to a configuration involving the hardware/software on your computer in some way shape or form. That may not be palatable, but it is the only logical conclusion.

I appreciate the kind words, Zero.... but I was just getting used to your ornery side

Raymond
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kona0197
Join Date 02/2003
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Reply #37 April 6, 2005 6:10:30 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Actually Raymond - the drivers they are talking about in your link are old drivers. 66.17 is outdated. The drivers I am using are 71.84 and they are DirectX compatible.
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_02
Join Date 12/2004
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Reply #38 April 6, 2005 9:01:08 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I just allowed my ornery side to get the better part of reason is all

It happens to the best of us Zero! I have had my moments on some of the threads. Anyway, glad you're feeling better! No offense or harm done. I know how you feel about MS. Sometimes I feel the same way! Cindi
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Elesarr
Join Date 09/2001
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Reply #39 April 13, 2005 7:44:07 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Well, I discovered something today as I did my Auto Update installs: Zero, clwoods I hate to say it but you are misinformed when it comes to the Auto Update feature of the new Windows Update Service. One does have the option to install updates one at a time or remove updates that have been found. You only have to choose a "Custom Install" when you are informed that updates are ready to be installed. Please see the attached images. I just wanted everyone to be aware of this functionality since the overall feeling of this thread is that Microsoft tries to limit and control everyone's computing environment. I will add that one probably has to have SP2 installed on their machine, but I cannot confirm that since I have no machines that are SP2 free.





Raymond
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Double Zero
Join Date 07/2004
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Reply #40 April 13, 2005 8:12:46 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I discovered the very same thing Raymond, when I was doing a little work on a friends PC over the weekend.. Of course I was keepin it quiet!..LoL! shhhhhhhhhhhh!

Zero.;
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Elesarr
Join Date 09/2001
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Reply #41 April 13, 2005 8:21:59 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
LOL - sorry I let the cat out the bag Zero

and I meant no disrespect to you or cindi: I didn't know this either until today, I wanted to see what could possibly be a custom install with Auto Updates, normally I just do the express and get it over with

Peace

Raymond
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Double Zero
Join Date 07/2004
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Reply #42 April 13, 2005 12:06:51 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
and I meant no disrespect to you or cindi: I didn't know this either until today, I wanted to see what could possibly be a custom install with Auto Updates, normally I just do the express and get it over with


Raymond, would you quit being so damn "nice"..LoL!! I dont know about Cindi, but I can take a slap in the face once in awhile, and sometimes I even deserve it! shhhhhhhh..LoL

No disrespect noted, at all.. I also was very surprised at my discovery and felt quite foolish when I made it. Now I am going to charge that MS is reading this board and they changed the updates just to embarass me! to get even for my labeling them the "Evil Empire"
It coulda happened!..LoL

You know it's funny, my friend has the Auto Update feature turned on, she has ever since she's had her comp, but she has the toughest time remembering to install them, even with the balloon that pops-up informing her that updates are ready to install, LoL!. There were a total of 48 updates waiting installation when I arrived to "tune-up" her PC because she was complaining that it was running very slow..

9 trojans, 15 Adware items and 11 Spyware items..::laughs:: needless to say her PC is really working very well now!
Hopefully my preaching "Security" to her for the zillionth time has actually "sunk-in" but I doubt it...

Anyway, She has her fun with her home PC, downloading music, chatting, and surfing the web, playing Yahoo games, who am I to tell her she cant do that stuff without being paranoid about snoops, she just wants to have fun and relax at home on her PC without any concerns, so I guess I'll just be over there again in a month cleaning out the box..LoL

Take Care Raymond,
Zero.
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Elesarr
Join Date 09/2001
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Reply #43 April 13, 2005 12:16:36 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
No disrespect noted, at all.. I also was very surprised at my discovery and felt quite foolish when I made it. Now I am going to charge that MS is reading this board and they changed the updates just to embarass me! to get even for my labeling them the "Evil Empire"
It coulda happened!..LoL


Thanks...:: blushing :: I just don't wanna make anyone mad...

You are probably right about Microsoft reading this thread - I was thinking something along the same lines.

Peace,

Raymond
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_02
Join Date 12/2004
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Reply #44 April 13, 2005 1:52:48 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I just don't wanna make anyone mad


I am not mad over your info or anything else. A person can't learn anything when their mad. I appreciate the info. Thankyou! Cindi
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Elesarr
Join Date 09/2001
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Reply #45 April 13, 2005 5:58:33 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
thanks Cindi! you are welcome

Raymond
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