Just4Jane

Join Date 08/2002

Need help with a possible Motherboard problem

Maybe its software

Can anyone help me with a problem or steer in the right directions for help. I have a computer system that was custom build (not by me) about 14 months ago. I have had a constant problem with USB ports not working!!!

I mean this has been since the very beginning. Everytime I have had the computer company check it, everything works fine. Herein lies some of the problem. It is not constant, but more often than not I put in a jump drive to copy and get a message that says "Device not recognized ...". Also, I have an external hard drive set up the backup every 3 hours. I am often getting messages (1-3 times a day) that says it cannot find this drive. Yesterday, I spoke with Intel. I have a D865GBF motherboard with a P-4 3.2 gig CPU. Intel had me reset some things in the Bios and than said I need to disconnect all of my devices (3 printers, scanner, external hardrive, separate PC sound card;extra USB2 card) and update the Bios and their drivers, than reformat and do a clean install of Windows. If I still have the same problem, than they will talk to me about warranty replacement. That is also a big problem. I believe I have to first send in the board and then wait (2-3 weeks) for the replacement. I cannot do that! I have a business and this is my busiest time (bookkeeping, taxes, consulting). I don't mind going back to square one and starting over, I have done that 3x since I got the computer and the same problem still exists....but, I will try again in a week or so after I get through the 1st of the month obligations. Intel says this is a software problem (naturally, they would!). I fear I will go through all of this and still have the same problem! I have tried my external HD and 2 different jump drives in the front ports when the "cannot recognize" comes up. It is the same for each of them. I have tried ports in the back and after 1 day, the external HD had the "Cannot find" error. H E L P !!! Where do I start and how do I determine what the problem is ... software or hardware. I imagine the external HD (LaCie) and the jump drives (MicroAdvantage, Sony) could be bad. It just seems strange they would all be bad. I have replaced the cord on the LaCie and still the same problems come up. I am determine to solve this problem. Other than this, I believe it is a good system. Any Suggestions? Should I just buy a new motherboard and try that? Replace the LaCie HD? Please help or tell me where I can get some really great help. The company (local) that build it, is not much help. I believe I know more than they do. Everyone on this discussion board has always been so great about helping me solve my computer problems. I am putting my hopes and dreams in all of your hands once again. Thanks so much!

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You might get some answers here:http://forum.tweakxp.com/forum/ pretty knowledgable staff over there.
If you don't get an answer here or at tweakxp, I'd call a better repair shop. If your livelihood depends on your computer, you don't want to take the risk of having someone who doesn't know what they're doing screwing it up even worse.

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Is it running WinXP? If so I assume it's Pro (not Home) if you're running a business?

Which Service Pack? Have you done a Windows Update?

Did the MoBo come with a CD of drivers? Is it installed? Are there updated versions of these drivers from the MoBo supplier's homepage?

Do the USB devices fail on their own or is it only when there's a few of them plugged in together? Maybe you're exceeding the allowable power drain from the USB port? The external HDD's should have their own power source.

Are all your USB peripherals new i.e bought at the same time as the PC? Are you able to check them all on another system?

The USB memory sticks ("jump Drives"

never heard them called that before) are notorious for being finicky about which systems they'll work with - some even need their own drivers!

I would do te following:
Test all your USB devices to amke sure they're all OK.

Make sure your PC is up-to-date with Windows Update, MoBo drivers and USB drivers for all the devices that need them - get them from the makers' web sites if possible.

Plug in each device on it's own and try to get it working - Device Manager is your friend! You may be able to chase up any error codes in Device Manager to determine the reason things aren't working.

If all else fails, presuming you bought the system and all peripherals from your supplier under the assurance that they'd work together, demand a suitable loan system until they can get yours working reliably.

That's all I got to offer at this stage. HTH & good luck

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**Intel says this is a software problem (naturally, they would!).**

I hate to say it but Intel may be correct, it sounds like you have drivers that just do not jive with the OS.. I had a wireless tranciever that was the same thing..no matter what I did it would not work 100% of the time, I was forever uninstalling/reinstalling to get back on-line..Finally I threw it out the window and bought a DSL modem..::laughs::..

Have you checked for updated drivers for your external drives at the manufacturers' site..or possibly a firmware update?.. Before I go to the extreme of starting at ground Zero...apparently again..explore every option.(obviously your doing that..LOL..just sounded good to add it!))

Good Luck,
Zero.

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Christ TH: I am running WinXP Prof. It has Service Pack 2 and is updated. I check for updates weekly. The MoBo did have a CD of drivers, but since I did a Bios update in December, it will not even open the CD!!!! I have downloaded the .inf file and the ethernet file. I have seen that there is an updated Bios, so I do probably need to do that. I believe I have the most recent drivers from Intel. As for the USB devices, the ones giving me problems are all "plug-n-play", so I do not have any special drivers. Do I need to look for some? The devices instructions all said if running WinXp just plug in!!! I have no problems with these devices on a laptop system, but in all fairness, I only use the devices on the laptop a little bit. The HDD is kept on all the time; the jump drives I back up files I need to carry about 5-6x a week. The HDD I have does NOT have an external power source that came with it. It stated it did not need one. But there is a plug for one, so I imagine this is something I could explore. I recently discovered that there was a yellow question mark under the device manager for an "audio source". I originally had not idea what it was because that was not there before and I had not attached anything new. Anyway through trial and error, I discovered it was from the on-board sound system. I use a PC card for sound (Creative). I downloaded Intel's audio driver and updated it in the Device Manager. That took care of the yellow question, but the problem was still there. I also have a USB2 card that I added to this computer. Actually it is an older one (made shortly after USB2 came out). I took it out of my old system and added it to this. I did not get any drivers because of the Windows USB driver. I wonder if this could have anything to do with it? Also, your idea about finicky memory sticks (my Jump Drives!!!) makes since. I need to use these because I have to update files weekly on clients computers. Any good suggestions for that? Also, I just ordered a USB2 hub (with a build in memory card reader). This is bus driven. I hope these might eliviate some of the problem. You mentioned about exceeding the allowable power, how would I know that? I have had the same error with the HDD when I put it in a front or a back USB. I mainly use the front for these devices because of frequently having to disconnect them. I have a 2nd built in HD which I use for data backup only as well as the external HD for backup. With may business, backups are so vital. Perhaps, I should only use the internal HD as my routine backup and just make a backup on the external one once a week or month? Any ideas there? Your ideas about going back to the supplier is great...but this is a very small town and there are about 2 computer shops here. The one I use is the lesser of 2 evils! They would never lend me a system. They just expect me to do without. They have more business than they can handle, so they do not really care. I have learned my lesson here. I have bought 3 computers locally and will never do it again. I have had a Systemax Desktop unit that I replaced with my current one. That was the best unit I ever had. I only replaced it because I needed the added business expense, so a new computer was the choice. I have even considered buying a new computer and just dumping this one! However, I will take all your advice and apply alot of it and just hopefully I can discover just what is causing this. I also put in a new video card about 3-4 months ago because I got a digital monitor. I have wondered about that. I do have the latest drivers, but I will check again.

Citizen Double Zero: You may have something there...maybe I ought to just toss the LaCie bus driven HDD and get another one which has its own power unit. It makes alot of since

Thanks to all of you. I will be working on this problem next week and will let you know how it goes. You have all been a tremendous help.

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kona0197

Join Date 02/2003

+86

Sounds like maybe a screwed up BIOS flash to me.

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Actually it is an older one (made shortly after USB2 came out). I took it out of my old system and added it to this. I did not get any drivers because of the Windows USB driver. I wonder if this could have anything to do with it?

That could be (st least part of) the reason for your USB devices not working.
Go to Device Manager (right-click on My Computer>Manage>double click Device Manager in left hand pane) Click on "Universal Serial Bus Controllers" to expand the view.
Right click on your USB card (actually if I were you I would go through each of them) and select "Update drivers" Follow the prompts and allow it to use Windows update to try and find updated drivers.
If you CD drive is not working, then hopefully you can download what you need.

Sounds like maybe a screwed up BIOS flash to me.

Kona could be right, though from what I've read, if you flash with the wrong BIOS your Mobo is pretty much toast.

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Chris gets the cigar....it has all the symptoms of an under powered system. I suspect your 12V rail has gone south. Look inside the case and see if the 4 pin 12V is connected firmly (do not touch the connector until you unplug the machine and ground yourself on the case). If you're trying to run all that 'stuff' with a generic 350 it ain't going to be a happenin' thing. If you can, post the amp rails (3A,5A,12A...) listed on the side of the PSU, as well as the total wattage.

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Hmmm, where there's a yrag, a China's sure to follow

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I doubt it...

I discovered it was from the on-board sound system. I use a PC card for sound (Creative). I downloaded Intel's audio driver and updated it in the Device Manager. That took care of the yellow question, but the problem was still there.

Almost forgot...either take out the card or disable the on-board in the bios. You can't run both. While you're in the bios (I'll assume you'll keep the sound card), make sure APIC is enabled and all USB options are enabled (2.0 and any 1.0 backward compatiable options)

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I agree with the powering being suspect. The fact that the external hard drive has a power plug that isn't being used means it's drawing a lot of watts from your power supply which is most likely under rated for the load you're putting on it.

I would highly recommend upgrading your power supply to at least 400 Watts. This may solve the entire problem. If it doesn't, at least you'll know that your system has ample power for the job. And power supplies aren't expensive.

Checking the wire connections to the motherboard is also a good thing to do as a loose connection can easily cause the type of intermittent problems you describe.

Keeping all of your drivers up to date is just good practice. You should do regular checks with the manufacturers websites to see if new drivers have been released.

In all honesty it doesn't sound like the mobo itself is the problem. It's possible of course, just not the most likely suspect.

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kona0197

Join Date 02/2003

+86

Yrag - I have a USB card and it plays nicely with the stock onboard USB ports. What gives?

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Sound card, Kona...Sound card

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kona0197

Join Date 02/2003

+86

Yeah - I misread...

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Hmmm, where there's a yrag, a China's sure to follow

Whats China have to do with "Gary"..isnt china that female wrestler woman?..LoL

Anyway, sounds like Yrag is definitely on to something here..::nods::

Zero

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LittleBearJason

Join Date 11/2004

+11

yraq

Yo yraq ... im sorry to bother you... and the original poster , but I have a post that needs your attention... at your conviennce...

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Hey, guys! Thanks for all the suggestions. I have went to the device manager and updated the drivers on all my USB's (there were 12 listed!). They all said "could not find a better driver." I intend to go the Bios, but I don't feel I am real good in that area, but I sure want to be. Yesterday, the Intel guy had me set things back to "default", so I think that brought in the on-board sound. I will take "yrang's" advice and go into the Bios to disable the on-board and double check the APIC for enabled USBs. I have discovered that I did get a power source with that LaCie HDD! When I went to look for it originally, I did not recognize it because it connects throught the mouse PS port! I guess that is okay. Anyway, I have connected that also and purposely set that drive to backup new items every hour to test it. I have tested the use of the jump drive (memory card stick, I guess) several times. It usually comes up, but with a wierd thing ... the first time I plug it in, it will call it by name, but than not show the files in there. If I remove and do again, it seems to do fine. I will continue testing. I also need to see about any possible updates for the Creative card.

Jrag: I gotta say, the items you mention to check in the case, I would not know! I am not that familiar with the inside case.

Wish I was though! Thanks again, everyone. I will keep you posted! You have been such a great help. I do think, as this point it is not quite so annoying. Hopefully, checking the Bios and sound card driver will also make a difference.

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Just Jane,

I believe, though not absolutely positive, that yraq is talking about your Power Source Unit (PSU) and it's connection to the motherboard and drives. If the connection is not solid you may be getting inconsistent power supplied to the board which would become evident when you have a lot of devices connected which are asking the motherboard for power.

yraq also suggeted that you post the information listed on the label on the Power Supply Unit (the box inside the case that your computer power cord connects to). You should see a listing for total wattage output as well as a number of listings for volts and amps (lines of information in the output list similar to "+3.3V / 14A MAX"). The colored wires coming out the back of this box lead to the motherboard, drives, and sometimes the fan on the CPU. If you disconnect the computer power cord from the wall, then touch the side of the Power Source Unit to ground yourself - you should be able to safe and gently check the motherboard connector for a solid connection (this is at the end of the aforementioned colored wires coming out of the Power Supply Unit). It would probably be good to check for secure connections at the back of all your drives while you are at it.

Power consumption is cumulative, so each device connected will drain some of the amperage (power) available from the power source. If the power demand of the connected devices exceeds that of the Power Source Unit's available amperage output - you will have issues with device performance and will tax the OS because it has to deal with managing which device has priority over another to receive available power, especially with USB.

This is a common cause in USB problems, especially if the devices are relying on the computer for their power. The USB host controller is only allowed to give out so much power, that is why it is better to use devices that have their own power source.

If you post the information on the Power Source Unit label, yraq or another can probably tell you whether your best bet is to purchase a Power Source Unit which can deliver more amperage. The "350" reference, is the common amount of amperage supplied by the stock PSU's in most mainstream computers.

I hope this gives some insight.

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JustJane,

Your issue can be resolved in two easy steps.
You need a 7-port POWERED USB2 Hub. Belkin has a pretty decent one that has 5 in the back and two on top (for those thumb/jump drives).
Next: If you can maneuver around your bios, do this: Diable the two serial ports, they are using resources that you dont need and perhaps even the parallel port (if no printer is attached to it).
Plug all your devices into the hub and watch everything run fine.

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Chris gets the cigar....

Hi praise indeed! [walks around with a smug look]

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Sorry, I could not edit previous post to change my typo's from Amperage to Wattage, so here are the corrections in bold (I actually did know what I meant).

Power consumption is cumulative, so each device connected will drain some of the Wattage (power) available from the power source. If the power demand of the connected devices exceeds that of the Power Source Unit's available Wattage output - you will have issues with device performance and will tax the OS because it has to deal with managing which device has priority over another to receive available power, especially with USB.

And -

If you post the information on the Power Source Unit label, yraq or another can probably tell you whether your best bet is to purchase a Power Source Unit which can deliver more Wattage. The "350" reference, is the common amount of Wattage supplied by the stock PSU's in most mainstream computers.

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