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butch123
butch123
Join Date 01/2004
+201

Fair Play

Stats

January 7, 2005 9:11:45 AM from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Well, i thought i would try and get some feedback from you guys and gals, on the topic of fair play.As you all know i am one who really don't care about Stats, to me they don't mean much. When i upload a blind, logon or what ever, i do so to try and get it out to all the community.That my reward.But for the last few uploads it seems that someone is having fun by cuting rateings. My last 3 blinds, has gone from 6 to 2 of thwm to a 4 and 1 to a 3 there for limiting the amount of people who can get so see them, there for what is the use of sending anything if it is just to have the rating cut.So my question to you is ..Do you find that fair to the people who don't get to see them..and if you do then how is it fair to them ??
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butch123
CerebroJD
Join Date 01/2003
+9
Reply #1 January 7, 2005 9:37:56 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I have nothing against your stuff, and actually havent gotten around to rating any of it as yet. I must say, however, that based on first impressions, we want to give visitors to WinCustomize the best of the best. No offense intended, but your stuff isnt the best. Neither is mine. I'd rather have people coming to the site, seeing stuff by like, Pixtudio, and then they see our stuff once they join. Eventually, once you get good enough, your stuff will have higher ratings, and will be the skins giving the good first impressions to the visitors.

Dont take offence at a low rating...just make your next skin better, and keep trying.
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butch123
Lynx's Den
Join Date 08/2004
0
Reply #2 January 7, 2005 10:36:24 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Seen That happen to mine to butch, had one the other day that was rated a 5, then went to 7, then went back to 5, And JD isn't that kinda unfair, I mean no offense, but how do you really know what people coming here, really want to see, and i have to agree with some of butches comments, I mean I'm a member/subscriber too, why should i or butch or anyone else who are also members/subcribers (who also have paid to be here), or even non-members, be downgraded just because some of us haven't either been here as long, or don't have the rep like Pixstudio, Skin Factory, ect., How are we suppost to get a rep, learn and improve if our stuff (ends up so far down the line), its not being seen and commented on, to get the chance to improve.... I don't know, anyway you dice it, sound pretty unfair! but who am i
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butch123
Erk.
Join Date 10/2003
+77
Reply #3 January 7, 2005 10:55:25 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I don't think CJD meant it in the way you're understanding it, guy's ..he's not (intentionally) bagging anyone. Note he also includes himself in the response above.

Skins do go up and down all the time ...it's all down to peoples taste's.
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butch123
butch123
Join Date 01/2004
+201
Reply #4 January 7, 2005 11:03:03 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Well just went to see how my last blind was doing, and to my surprise it has been pulled. not even a e-mail. was a legal port Authorization
was enclosed by author,don't know
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butch123
HG_Eliminator
Join Date 07/2002
+354 wcwizop
Reply #5 January 7, 2005 11:09:19 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
butch it is best to Email an admin and handle it privately...
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butch123
BladeX965
Join Date 04/2003
0
Reply #6 January 7, 2005 12:23:38 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Hmmmmmm.... don't know if i want to even touch this one
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butch123
butch123
Join Date 01/2004
+201
Reply #7 January 7, 2005 1:00:28 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
HG_Eliminator Yes you are right, so i sent 2 of them. thanks
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butch123
Snowman
Join Date 03/2001
+343
Reply #8 January 7, 2005 1:09:27 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Butch: the permission was NOT included with the last one and an email has been sent to you about it

May I suggest that you get a proper mail provider, it seems like you're not able to recieve mails from certain people!
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butch123
butch123
Join Date 01/2004
+201
Reply #9 January 7, 2005 1:38:57 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Wizop Snowman Don't want to bet do ya..look in the blind it is there I put it there so it would not get misplaced, but if you want i can send a new upload thank you as a matter of fact i downloaded it from stardock this morning, and before responding i checked it thank you
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butch123
MikeB314
Join Date 07/2001
+40
Reply #10 January 7, 2005 1:58:41 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
There is a readme.txt file in there that came with the original msstyle. There is nothing from the author giving you permission to port it and post it.
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butch123
butch123
Join Date 01/2004
+201
Reply #11 January 7, 2005 2:16:12 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
The unmodified theme may be freely redistributed, always
that you include this Read me file as well.

Maybe i am making a mistake but the above line gives me or anyone the rights to redistributed as long sa i do not change his blind. which i have not, a port does not modifien his blind
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butch123
bluehalo
Join Date 07/2004
0
Reply #12 January 7, 2005 2:23:16 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I agree with butch on this issue,some of the work uploaded to the site do seem to be rated in a sort of haphazard way,dull bland skins of well known skinners recieving high marks,lesser known skinners work being down rated.I personaly was drawn to this site because it was a community that encourages novices to have a go,the products such as skinstudio ,windowblinds etc.sell the sight well enough .Elitist comments,such as shouldnt rated skins under 4 be deleted,only the best skins should be shown to potential custostomers does not encourage me to upload ,exactly the opposit.butch123 comments on nearly every skin uploaded "nice","very nice","great skin"etc this encourages me to try harder,not a drop in rating.keep up the good work butch. is this a skinning community or a site for the elite?
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butch123
MikeB314
Join Date 07/2001
+40
Reply #13 January 7, 2005 2:53:03 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Butch, this is not an unmodified theme. The author didn't make a WindowBlinds skin, he made an msstyle. In my opinion, converting it is a form of modification.

It is the very next line of the text file that you should pay attention to. Here is that section in its entirety.

"Distribution info:

 The unmodified theme may be freely redistributed, always
 that you include this Read me file as well.
 
 If you want to use this theme as base for your own creations,
 please be respectful of the job of the original creators and
 DO NOT distribute it without permission, doesn't matter how
 many changes have you made."

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butch123
butch123
Join Date 01/2004
+201
Reply #14 January 7, 2005 3:25:34 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Wizop MikeB314 Well i am sorry but i can not agree with that. you know as well as i do what he was saying, that if anyone wants to change the blind in lets say add another colour use it in a suite update it ect..then they should ask for permission,and i agree fully with that as you should know as i have said it enought times i do not belive in changing the work of a authour.So why don't we just cut the Storys and get to the truth witch is a new member has better stats the a lot of the elite here i am ranked 18 over all, and the blind snowman pulled had about 900 downloads, witch would of given me about 10,000 downloads this week. so why don't we just forget about the blind, i am not that way i have said many times that stats to me are nonthing As a matter of fact it is about 3 days that the stats on my home page don't work but you did not hear me cry about it. thank you for your comment.
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butch123
BlueDev
Join Date 12/2003
+16
Reply #15 January 7, 2005 3:30:06 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I can't agree with you butch123. The way I see it, porting is in essence modifying the theme (you modify the file format). So porting to upload really should require the author's explicit permission.

Just my take on it.
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butch123
Fuzzy Logic
Join Date 05/2002
+493
Reply #16 January 7, 2005 3:32:53 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
If you port a msstyles skin, you must have permission. The text file clearly states 'unmodified'. By importing the skin to Windowblinds you are modifying it
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butch123
PixelPirate
Join Date 07/2003
+17
Reply #17 January 7, 2005 3:34:27 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
It says the unmodified theme may be freely redistributed. I read that as, the msstyle - as it is - may be redistributed anywhere. However you ported it to WindowBlinds and you need the authors permission to do so. He must know you ported it to WB and give you his consent. Even if you haven't changed the colors or anything like it.
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butch123
MadDeez
Join Date 11/2001
+147
Reply #18 January 7, 2005 3:37:04 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
butch, what the original artist said was the msstyle can be distributed, not a port of it. that entails posting the unmodified msstyle file on your site or others' sites for distribution. when the skin is ported, it is modified by being changed from one format to another. even if a skin is released as 'open source', it is always advisable to ask the original skinner for permission to port or convert the skin to windowblinds format. and nobody is picking on you at all, butch. i went thru the same thing when i mistakenly ported a skin over a year ago. it was removed for eh same reason yours was. i thought i had been given permission by misinterpreting a readme.txt file. wow, was i wrong! phew my suggestion for you is to always contact the msstyle author for permission and include a 'permissions.txt' file inside the wba file when you upload the skin. the mods can check thing svery easily that way.
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butch123
Lynx's Den
Join Date 08/2004
0
Reply #19 January 7, 2005 4:07:19 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Couldn't of said it better my self BlueHalo, in fact thats pretty much what i said in the comment section of one of my screenshots, I also signed up here for the same reasons, along with seeing where other so called skinning communities where headed or heading (Custimize .org for example), I felt this was one of the best places (if not the best) to be.... now my feeling is whats the point!
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butch123
Sleeping Dragon
Join Date 03/2004
0
Reply #20 January 7, 2005 6:11:54 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
This is the best site for the skinning community. The best skinners are represented here and do quite a bit to help new people (myself included). The ratng thing and the points thing will always bring out competition. The new guy just wants to contribute, the seasoned veteran has an eye for detail that the newbie does not. There are going to be conflicts. I have had my share of conflicts, and let downs, and highs from this site. Let's all remember, that people are most important. Relationships are important. Skins and points and ratings are temporary, at best. I cannot begin to tell you the amount of good advice I have received from this skinning community. Everything from how to make a screenshot to what paint programs to resizing Title bars to icon resolution to dealing whith loss to emotional healing.............etc. etc for free. This site is solid and 95% fair. Where can you go in life and be promoted to CEO in one year. Everyone has to pay a bit of dues. But that being said, even new greenhorns like me were accepted here. Butch123, you started this thread, but you have had a warm reception here after starting out by threatening WC with a law suit. They could have banned you for good (privately owned site). We can't all agree on everything, but we can all be digging in the trenches together. We'll get dirty at times but the result will be... well, .. I guess a really big trench
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butch123
Jafo
Join Date 03/2001
+1845 sdemployee
Reply #21 January 7, 2005 6:32:08 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

To redistribute another's work in any form, identical OR modified you are REQUIRED to include SPECIFIC consent for you PERSONALLY to do so.

This consent MUST be included within the skin 'archive' and be clearly noted within the accompanying description.

General 'disclaimers' to 'do what you like' do not classify as tacit rights of distribution.

Copyright needs to be passed to any distributor as a conscious act on the part of the copyright holder.

It's not something that can be a 'policy debate' of opinion.

It is the rules by which Wincustomize.com is run....

Looks like I need to have a closer look at some Logons...which may or may not have the artist's consent to redistribute his/her wall images.

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butch123
Lynx's Den
Join Date 08/2004
0
Reply #22 January 7, 2005 7:21:35 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Ok Jafo Now that brings up a question, may be a little off subject (and of course if i am understanding this right ), but here it goes, I recently contacted Brad to ask him if i needed permission to use the Wincustomize logos (which are someone elses work, and i plan to modify in some way or another to fit my work, and my own graphics), for some work I am concidering about doing, In return, I recieved an email that just stated " Sure Go Ahead".... now what does that fall under, does that mean that if i upload the work, it will be rejected, since he did not give me Specific Consent?
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butch123
Jafo
Join Date 03/2001
+1845 sdemployee
Reply #23 January 7, 2005 7:22:03 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Lynx's Den .....Brad is the copyright holder....you are requesting consent for limited rights of distribution from the holder.....and you have received such.  All you need do is include that consent with subsequent distribution and all  is well.

The reason for physical inclusion is that it remains on record with the skin for any potential future argument/clarification/verification....that approval exists....

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butch123
Sleeping Dragon
Join Date 03/2004
0
Reply #24 January 7, 2005 7:27:31 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
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butch123
Lynx's Den
Join Date 08/2004
0
Reply #25 January 7, 2005 7:31:07 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Kewl!!! Thanks for the info Jafo much appreciated, and NO!!! Dragon your not but thanks anyway!!!!
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