MadDeez

Join Date 11/2001

+147

Library Moderation (or lack thereof)

Can anything be done?

It has to come to the attention of some of us that only the wallpaper library is moderated for quality. In my opinion, it is painfully obvious that the same moderation standards should be applied to numerous other libraries on WC. I completely understand the thinking that the more skins available here, the more likely folks will be drawn to WC from other sites. But, on the other hand, people from other sites come to WC, scroll through 2 pr 3 pages of skins in a library or two, and go post elsewhere that there are nothing but 'crap' skins on WC. If a high standard of moderation can be applied to one library, why can't it be applied to all libraries? A couple examples are the CXP library and the OD library. There are some absolutely fantastic entries in each of those but there are some equally horrible entries. In the OD library, I imagine it's very possible to find almost exact duplicates of some icons/png's. If a quality standard such as the one used to moderate the wallpapers was used in these two libraries alone, 25% of the items posted would not be there, in my opinion. I'm not implying that I am the 'know it all art critic'. You can read the comments on some of these skins and see that quite a few people agree. Have a wonderful day, everyone

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RadialFX

Join Date 07/2001

+33

I agree, I'm not a "world authority" on quality either but I do believe there needs to be some sort of "minimal" standard.

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WOM

Join Date 01/2002

+253

Wouldn't hurt.

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I'd be worried it would discourage those that are submitting their first skin.

My logic is as follows:

Inot all that hard to come up with a rectangular abstract bitmap that can serve as a wallpaper.

However, the fine-grained detail work required to assemble a working WB skin along with .ini files etc is much more involved.

Therefore, to reward the submitter by allowing the skin to stand encourages those that may be reluctant to try otherwise.

My 2c worth.

Posted via WinCustomize Browser/Stardock Central

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I'd be worried it would discourage those that are submitting their first skin.

I think the issue here is not someone uploading their first skin, but rather some people constantly uploading skins of very low quality in large quantities, something that's reminiscent of mass production, rather than a work of art. I too tend to agree that there should be a minimum quality standard enforced and if a consensus is reached that a skin does not meet that standard, or an artist mass produces such skins constantly, it should be rejected.

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Attempting to get some walls accepted, I got irritated with some of the skins in some of the categories that were accepted. To my shame, I made this gripe known in a not so diplomatic way.
On one hand, everyone likes to contribute and be accepted (including me), on the other hand there will be abuses. Maybe they could allow every entry, but only allow one per skinner per week. That way the category is not flooded with the one skinners skins. Just a thought.

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Lantec

Join Date 07/2003

+346

I believe the Wallpapers are moderated heavily due to the volume of uploads. I also believe all forums are moderated to a degree to make sure they don't put up something objectionable or illegal due to copyright. By default the site does not display skins with a rating of less than 2 stars which would have been a 4 (I guess) on the old site.
This should help those just visiting avoid seeing or dowloading anything that might put Wincustomize in a bad light. While I know there are skins and packages "I" absolutelty don't like, there may be someone out there who feels just the opposite. (Personally I don't care for blue skins) I don't always agree with the ratings I see, but I don't usually vote unless I like the skin. I can tell you some of the skins I have used the most only rec'd a rating of 5 or 6 when posted. Many of those who have become regular contributors recieved a lot of "constructive" criticism when they started and their first posts didn't get accolades from the community they get now. If someone posts something he or she obviously thinks that their effort was worth submitting. The problem a moderator must face is just where to draw the line and I gaurantee that no two people will always agree on where that line is.

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Well said, Lantec. Needs to be a way to prevent someone from monopolizing a category, though.

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Just another point to everything already said, yes there are great and less-than-great uploads in many libraries. Thats where our "browsing prefferences" comes in to play. You can choose not to view anything with less than a set rating, or set it low so all uploaded entries appear in the library. Isn't that the reason there is a "star" rating system?

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RadialFX

Join Date 07/2001

+33

I know that this is a terribly difficult task, even discussing it. What I'm talking about doesn't involve and individual "taste" per se. What I would refer to is just plain old poor quality. For example, and these are only mean't to be examples: a skin with lots of magic pink around borders, a cursor with real "jagged" or unclean edges that may be due to a lack of effort and not expertise. In other words just real obvious things that anyone viewing the offering here would notice as possibly a lesser quality. Not necassarily meaning a beginner that has yet to fully develop his skills. I, don't know just my 2 cents.

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Fuzzy Logic

Join Date 05/2002

+493

There is a minimal standard - you just don't see the works which have been moderated

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butch123

Join Date 01/2004

+201

Something I was thinking...if there was a moderator in charge of each section, dont know if there is, and if everybody was given a chance as long as its acceptable with a minimum standard, that maybe this would encourage people to upload, and encourage the beginners who have never made a skin or a wallpaper before, but at the same time if lets say after a day or so their product has not done very well, well maybe it could be removed. this way I believe it would encourage people to try improve themselves and at the same time with the more experienced people it would give them a chance to take a look at the work and maybe give a helping hand to the newer, less experienced people. I believe too that this might encourage people from other sites to visit WinCustoms. Never know..just my opinion.

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Matchbook

Join Date 08/2003

+100

""I'd be worried it would discourage those that are submitting their first skin.""

-- I wouldn't. If people know this is the world's toughest site to have work displayed on and a first work is rejected, it SHOULD fuel them to do better. I know it would, for me.

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While I know there are skins and packages "I" absolutelty don't like, there may be someone out there who feels just the opposite.

This exemplifies the spirit of Wincustomize, and where a Skins Author might not be up to a Critics Standards, they are up to the standards they set for themselves. As a beginning Skinner, those standards are a little less stringent, and through experience and education, and with a little guidance, they become streamlined and a benefit, to this Site and themselves. Tolerence, Patience and a lending hand goes alot further than moderation.

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I am comfortable with the current level of moderation. For visitors, it's only 4 and up (7 and up on the old site) that show and like someone pointed out earlier, if you don't want to see the "Lower Quality" works, set your star-rating higher. A more pro-active approach would be for folks who have skills to first rate those types of skins accordingly and then make constructive comments or offer assistance to the aspiring artist. This is a community site and I don't think the approach of shutting out folks because their skills need development is the right one.

Tolerence, Patience and a lending hand goes alot further than moderation.

Well said Cygnus!!

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butch123

Join Date 01/2004

+201

Cygnus

Tolerence, Patience and a lending hand goes alot further than moderation
Well stated, I applaude you

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i understand some of the stances taken here. i don't agree with them all but i do understand them

first of all, i know i can set my ratings level to not show the lesser rated skins. but, as someone pointed out, some of the lesser rated skins may be some that i want to view. i do not buy into the rating system at all, to be honest. many times, a skin's rating is skewed by others' like or dislike of the skin's author. also, the wallpaper library is not only moderated for objectionable material and illegal copyrighted material. some walls get rejected due to lens flares, dolphins, and so on. many walls are rejected due to the moderators flat out not liking the quality of the wall. for this, i am eternally grateful

if one library is moderated for quality, why aren't they all? tolerance, patience, and a lending hand DO NOT go further than moderation! if anything and everything submitted is approved, what possible reason for improvement does the person making the submission have? if a person's work is rejected on occasion, maybe, just maybe, that person will attempt to better his work before submitting something new. as i said before, i do not, and never will, claim to be an art critic. it just makes no sense to me that one library IS moderated for quality, among other things, and the remaining libraries are not. I realize WC is a "skinning" site and i don't want "skinners" to be shut out or discouraged but WC is not a site like DA, where anything can be posted. i've rambled on long enough. it's time to get back to the pacers game, anyway.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

WinCustomize isn't designed to be the world's toughest site to get skins onto. It's not supposed to be an elitist site.

We also do moderate skins to a certain degree if they are hopelessly awful. So you can imagine some of the stuff we get that doesn't get put up.

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...nothing made me work harder than rejection, after I contemplated why I really needed this rejection. I decided to work a bit harder and create whatever I might create for artistic value and if I liked it, than I was happy. I have a long way to go, but the moderators rejections of my walls did encourage me to:
1. Work harder
2. Study others
3. Prioritize my motives
4. Appreciate the good artists
5. Work harder
It didn't feel good, though. Especially when you are learning a new program and it has a learning curve, you may spend hours and hours on something just to have it dissappear from your "awaiting Moderation" list

I still think the answer may be in limiting the quantity. That way a greenhorn can get something accepted as a 1 star but then has a week before he can upload to that category again. No one individual's skins will be the first five skins looked at in a single area. He then has a week to sharpen his next upload.

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I think personally, that if you look at the WB Libraries, and go all the way back to the end, you get to see the growth processes of everyone here. Believe it or not there are skins here, from top authors that are not fantastic, or ground breaking. It also showcases, the growth of windowblinds as well. Also of mention is the differences, in WB Skins vs Wallpapers. Wallpapers are an open, expression of an Artist Talent with little or no restriction in deployment, other than the Images size. Windowblind are restricted to a set pattern to deploy to the OS. The Artist is free to design, yet at the same time, restricted to the usability of a skin design. A Wallpaper is not restricted as such, and an Artist is free to try many different avenues of expression. What it comes down to, is that this is the way it works, Walls are modd'ed, here because that was determined by the Admins, who in turn are employed by the Owner of the Site, and as much as we like WC, it is not a Democracy, nor Represenative Republic. Wincustomize in the end, is a business, and the possiblity of being opened up to an (IP) Infringement Suit is a lot more likely with an unfettered wall submission process.

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Sleeping Dragon rubs his chin and looks up at a 18 degree angle.

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ok, everything i said was incorrect. i guess i didn't know what i was talking about. i'll shut-up now. cya!

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Not incorrect. Different people have different opinions. I value yours.

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Snidely
We happen to disagree, we can agree to disagree, and leave it at that... I am just one mans opinion, and it's value is the same as yours, around here or anywhere else, for that matter. Hell don't listen to me, everyone will tell ya, I'm a "tinfoil hatter" Nutjob!

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actually, visitors can only see skins with a rating 6 and above (i think it was 6...)

so they generally only see the "good" skins... but there is some real crap out there

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-- I wouldn't. If people know this is the world's toughest site to have work displayed on and a first work is rejected, it SHOULD fuel them to do better. I know it would, for me.

Absolutely. I had my first 10 or so walls rejected. And the quality of my walls has improved greatly. The challenge just inspired me to get better. While it is frustrating to have a wall rejected, everytime it happens, I immediately go back to work on another wall... I think every library should be moderated for quality, particularly Cursorxp, there's some real stinkers in there... but that would be a hefty load for WC.

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