The Fox Is in Microsoft's Henhouse (and Salivating)

Black Xero

Join Date 10/2001

+21

The Fox Is in Microsoft's Henhouse (and Salivating)

FIREFOX is a classic overnight success, many years in the making.

Published by the Mozilla Foundation, a nonprofit group supporting open-source software that draws upon the skills of hundreds of volunteer programmers, Firefox is a Web browser that is fast and filled with features that Microsoft's stodgy Internet Explorer lacks. Firefox installs in a snap, and it's free.

Firefox 1.0 was released on Nov. 9. Just over a month later, the foundation celebrated a remarkable milestone: 10 million downloads. Donations from Firefox's appreciative fans paid for a two-page advertisement in The New York Times on Thursday.

Until now, the Linux operating system was the best-known success among the hundreds of open-source projects that challenge Microsoft with technically strong, free software that improves as the population of bug-reporting and bug-fixing users grows. But unless you oversee purchases for a corporate data center, it's unlikely that you've felt the need to try Linux yourself.

With Firefox, open-source software moves from back-office obscurity to your home, and to your parents', too. (Your children in college are already using it.) It is polished, as easy to use as Internet Explorer and, most compelling, much better defended against viruses, worms and snoops.

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For the first time, Internet Explorer has been losing market share. According to a worldwide survey conducted in late November by OneStat.com, a company in Amsterdam that analyzes the Web, Internet Explorer's share dropped to less than 89 percent, 5 percentage points less than in May. Firefox now has almost 5 percent of the market, and it is growing.

Read detailed article from New York Times at Link

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Mouse over Iben for my reply

Why do you need a spell checker in a browser? I don't think we're discussing the same application here. FWIW, there's not a spell checker in IE either. You don't need it. You need spell checkers in applications for composition such as your mail program. You don't need it for a browser which is rendering for display.

-D

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The problem is that once you find a way to exploit these technologies in IE, you can get complete access to an IE user's computer, and do some real damage. If IE was tied in the system so much, it wouldn't be a problem.

That's it folks... at least for me.

All the other stuff might be debatable to a degree, but IE's intergration with the OS is not debatable. You get through IE, you get the computer (not all the time, but there is more of a chance).

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oh and I need spell checker because I am always on message board forums and blog posting.

LOL

anyway... I'm sure FireFox will get it share of exploits once it becomes more popular, I just do not think it will be as bad as IE

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no gfidias, that's not the case. I have bookmarks there....

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I just installed Firefox and tried it out... and my web pages were bouncing around like kangaroos... I don't have time to figure out why I have graphical screw ups 5 seconds after I open it for the first time. Back to good ol reliable IE.

and with that kind of patience with "User Error" you probably should just go back to burying your head in the sand.

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firefox is a pain for web developers....

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paxx

Join Date 03/2001

Actually, it's not. If you do your code right, it shouldn't be a problem.
Test your code with Firefox first, and then check if it works with IE, instead of the other way around. IE forgives bad coding, while Firefox is a little less forgiving. Furthermore, Firefox supports alpha blended PNG's, which IE doesn't, and that's one huge cool feature. I wish everybody would use Firefox, or that Microsoft finally start emplementing it in IE. At last we can start putting buttons on textured or multicolor backgrounds without using crappy GIF transparency.

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All the other stuff might be debatable to a degree, but IE's intergration with the OS is not debatable. You get through IE, you get the computer (not all the time, but there is more of a chance).

What are you talking about?

If you can get code to execute in Firefox, it has the same access to the system as anything that gets executed through IE. And that is user-level access. So if you, the user, are running as a member of the Administrators group, then so are your programs. That includes IE and Firefox.

Most people don't understand how the "IE integration" works. Basically, the Windows shell uses Internet Explorer's interface components... to give you a consistent experience everywhere. Countless third-party applications use parts of IE as well.

But IE doesn't run as a system service, it has no special access to the system. It's entirely an user space application.

If you want to be secure, don't run as an Administrator. Unfortunately, too much software is written based on the assumption that you will. And that's something we need to change in the Windows world.

Microsoft also needs to make it easier to elevate privileges when needed. Right now you can right-click on a program in XP and see the "Run as..." option. But there are many times when an installer or update program will just give you an error instead of asking for administrator credentials.

That's something that OS X and *nix variants are better at. Hopefully, Microsoft will change that in Longhorn (or sooner).font>

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What do you mean, "do your code right?"

Do you mean by following the W3C standards that FireFox implements?

"Correct" code is code that works for most users. Not what the W3C and Mozilla Foundation decides is correct.

Browsers like Konqueror and Safari do a good job of properly rendering most anything that IE will render.

Mozilla (and thus Firefox) is far too arrogant in that regard. If a web page looks right in IE, but doesn't look right in Firefox... and you ask the user what's wrong... they won't blame the web site. They'll blame Firefox.

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If you're truly concerned about strict CSS implementations... why don't you run IE in strict mode?

Oh... because then half of the web pages you visit wouldn't display properly. Kind of like using Firefox.

And whose fault is it that IE is so forgiving? You do know that it was made that way because that's how Netscape did it, back when Netscape ruled the web?

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Well that's the 2nd collegue whose cracked under the strain and switched to Firefox...11 more to go...

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paxx

Join Date 03/2001

Of course, there is the CSS question and the JScript one where Microsoft implemented it's own instead of using industry standards, but that's not what I was refering to. Just for straight HTML, things won't display the same sometimes in IE and other browsers because IE lets you do mistakes while other browsers don't. You can forget the close a tag in Explorer. You can forget a TD in a table. You can write lazy and sloppy code and IE will still work, while other browsers won't.

And you're wrong. If I have a client using Firefox for example and his web site looks like crap in it, he won't blame Firefox, he will blame me (the web developper). If anybody using Firefox goes to a web site and the site doesn't work right, they won't blame Firefox, they will blame the site developpers. I do, most Forefox users I know do too. Because they IS a way to make it look right for both. Unless you're relying on Active X of course, but I've never liked the idea of Active X anyway.

As far as IE integration goes. Type C:\ in the address bar of Explorer. Now do the same in Firefox or any other browser. 'Nuff said.

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