Why are you confused, MGiff? If you're going to use IE or an IE shell (like MyIE2 my favorite IE shell) you should tighten up IE's security settings. I posted a couple links above to help. As I mentioned the more secure your settings the more likely some functionalities will be limited on some sites. Unfortunately browser security involves some tradeoffs of general functionality. Some really trusted sites can be put in IE's trusted zone, but IMO that should be used sparingly. (By the way, I recommend that one should tighten up IE's settings as long as IE is still on the PC, including installing all IE security updates since IE is part of the OS and some shared components are likely running or IE components can be invoked by another program or perhaps something on a web site one may visit. Even if you don't use IE to browse the net.)

Using another browser like Firefox, Mozilla or Opera generally is considered safer than IE for some of the reasons I noted above. That doesn't mean they make you absolutely safe on the net, nothing doees that unless you unplug your PC. But they are considered safer than using IE since so many b*stards have geared spyware and exploits to IE which is used by the vast majority of people online.

I also use Proxomitron, a web filtering app, to block ads, popups, etc. And some folks have made some filters that block some javascript stuff from doing things it shouldn't be doing. (I use JD5000's Proxomitron filter set, just in case anyone's interested.) I use this with all browsers and I think it does add a bit to security while I still have some functionality.

Online security is a matter of tradeoffs and risk management. No silver bullet. Sorry if I confused you, and don't want to scare you, but if you can be more specific about what's confusing you? It's just I spend some time on security forums and gads there are so many people who have been zapped by spyware, etc and it sometimes can be a nightmare to clean up some of this stuff. I don't claim to be an expert but I've learned a bit from people who are.

my apologies sig for not including you in the above post, MGiff...sig knows her stuff ....I'll go sit in a corner now.

No prob, Essencay. Gary and IP can run rings around me on just about everything PC related. I'm just a PC security groupie.

Yeah MGiff, as tjesterb said, just check out various browsers and see how it goes. You have to be comfortable with whatever you use.

By the way, you haven't mentioned why you want to try something other than IE. Are you concerned about security? (Which is why some people have switched, that and/or they've gotten hooked on tabbed browsing.) Or have you been having problems with IE?

No you're not being paranoid. Unfortunately we need to be a bit "paranoid" with all the crap online now. It wasn't so bad years ago (the good old days, lol). Although I don't know why you'd need two popup blockers? Which ones are you using? (I know some popups are using some newer techniques intended to get around the usual blockers.)

What I'm most concerned about is your family website...is it hosted on your ISP? Another hosting site? Or are you actually running a server hosting your own site? Just trying to figure the situation to try and see if/how the web site was indeed compromised. That may be another issue that a browser tweak or change alone won't help. It depends.

Dumb but basic question: how do you know the family's website was compromised? Were people's AV's alerting on it or were they getting infections and then trying to figure where they were to get infected. What kinds or worms/viruses? While some can be transmitted by a compromised site/server to an unprotected browser, perhaps the majority of worms are either network worms that can be blocked by a firewall or email worms that require someone opening an attachment or file and no updated AV to catch 'em.

Just trying to narrow down the options of how people got infected and if the website was really the point or transmission. Can't tell without more info.

(Just btw, some people say they hate tabbed browsing...well they don't have to use it on Opera or Moz or Firefox, but it is an option that many of us have gotten used to. I like the latest Opera much more than the earlier versions fwiw. Firefox is cool too but Opera has been around longer and is a bit more "seasoned." Plus Opera also has its email progam and other doodads included for those who want to use them. It's just a matter of preference and which one you find easier to get used to. I have Firefox too but I've found myself mainly just using Opera at home.)
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http://secunia.com/advisories/12027/ A hole in the Mozilla browser that makes it possible for attackers to launch unauthorized applications or crash computers.

http://secunia.com/advisories/12028/ A flaw in the Opera Web browser which can fool users into believing they're on a trusted Web site when they aren't.

Just pointing out that no browser is perfect. The popularity of IE alone makes it more desirable to evildoers to exploit.

Essencay goes back to his corner

Whatever became of black screens with white type. No one ever screwed with my computer on the old local BBS

lol... lived it, don't miss it...

though I did run a BBS and was a FIDO Hub.

I do miss that to some extent.

Well it looks as if this has hit the point of diminishing returns...

color me gone from this one

Well you've stated the conventional wisdom about the IE/OS integration, tjesterb. I haven't yet played with IEradicator or 98 Lite on my old W98SE system to see what life without IE/OS integration is like on that OS. I guess it wouldn't make that much difference functionally although perhaps a bit safer maybe. Some folks who've done it have told me it's OK. They reinstall IE as a standalone browser since they still like it. I'm not sure if XPLite can accomplish exactly the same thing or not on XP. http://www.litepc.com/

From time to time there are vulnerabilities discovered in the moz/opera browsers, usually the serious ones are addressed fairly quickly. But nothing's perfect. I don't think the phishing exploit in Opera (the second link Essencay posted) has been addressed yet. I briefly browsed the Opera security forum and saw some people arguing that it wasn't a security issue (it sure is when they see it in IE, lol) or was only theoretical (even though there's a proof of concept exploit) and besides was only "moderately critical." One even accused the poster who mentioned it of trolling. Jeez.

For those who aren't familiar with phishing an example is those scam emails that claim to come from PayPal or a bank and you click on a link that leads you to a lookalike site and if you check the address bar it looks real. You might input your info or whatever thinking you're on a legit site and whamo the bad guys have it. So one should not mess with such emails and if there's any question if an email is legit or not, use a previous bookmark or type in the real url to go to the legit site. This is the most common use of phishing exploits, although funky links on websites could do the same.

Anyway, it is a plus that Moz/FF and Opera aren't incorporated into the OS like IE. Kevin McAleavey (developer of BOClean an antitrojan app and other programs) has ranted about the dangers of IE's OS integration for years. He sees how malware works at the system level so I'd guess he'd know what he's talking about. Still some exploits are possible with Moz/Opera although IE remains the main target. Arguably they wouldn't be as bad as IE's with its direct mindmeld with the OS, but any security/privacy compromise ain't good. There's nothing 100% safe as long as a PC is in communication with the outside world in some fashion.

One option/recommendation is to disable scripting including javascript in all browsers to be safer since even js can be a way for malicious script to run. But although one can function reasonably ok on the net without IE's ActiveX, javascript is used so frequently it's sort of difficult to do without completely (even the smilies here use js).

People just have to figure what their needs and comfort levels are vs. the potential risks. And take reasonable precautions. It just P's me off that we have to concern ourselves at all with all this crapola. But mainly I'm lazy so I take precautions so I don't have to deal with cleaning up a PC or reformating, etc.
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Ok, that is exactly what I need, thank you

You got me, I dont do the tab thing with firefox

#42 by juni - 7/20/2004 12:10:55 AM Only gripe with Firefox: Why can't it automatically open windows in tabs?

#48 by Scribe Hus - 7/21/2004 8:44:02 PM I hated that too when I first started using Firefox, then by accident I discovered something. If you click on a link with the mouse wheel, it will open that link in a new tab. It was that discovery that has kept me using Firefox.

http://update.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?application=firefox&id=50&vid=53