...that would be 'luscious', Oh Luscious One

Well, between Konfabulator and DesktopX, you've said the same yourself before Frogboy. They're both the same, and they're both different.

DesktopX is a wonderful app (I can only assume it still is. I like my old beta still! ) but Konfabulator has the nice feature of OSX's Unix core, allowing it to tie in with other apps (such as top).. but still, Konfabulator's always reminded me as more of a more-graphical Samurize than DesktopX anyway.

As for the quality of the skins/widgets between Apple and PC? Hrm... I don't know. Really, I bet if you took the best of the best from the Apple side as well as the best of the best from the PC side, you'd find that if nothing else, the #s were about the same for both.

I dunno I use both, just depends on the situation, or job requirements. But as I've always argued with my "mac is lord almighty" biased staff, proffesors and students. Making a new folder on a mac is different than it is for making a new folder on pc, but operating system aside, and blind views behind it, the programs (i.e. photoshop, 3ds max) are no different on mac or pc. There are advantages and disadvantages of both, but artist wise? Thats a dumb question, about as dumb as asking which has better drivers, ford or chevy? ...but besides that I think pc users are just as bias as mac users.
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hmm thats a tough one, i guess you couldn't really compare as it is a different layout of desktops.

Only two guys i know of thats probably top class for the Mac, like Pixtudio/SkinPlant is for the PC would be Max Rudberg and William Bart.

Max Rudberg's

Aluminum Alloy

http://homepage.mac.com/max_08/





and Bill Bart http://www.bbxstudio.com


I couldn't say Mac users are rippers IPlural because if you look at it both sides, Mac and PC designers have their good and bad community its just knowing the right people
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Anyone that's been on one of the mailing lists for the Mac skinning programs knows that Mac users are pretty convinced that they're a lot better at skinning (and are convinced that PC users are a bunch of rippers -- a charge, that while over generalized, we all have seen how little respect some people have for the rights of skinners).

It makes me mad too that many Mac users would convict all Windows skinners as being reppers? They must have looked at a site like themexp.org and drew a conclusion from that. At another site I was arguing with a bunch of Linux zealots that Windows has the best looking themes and that skinning on Windows via Object Desktop plus other Stardock products was light years ahead of Linux's native skinnability. It just makes me made that this one zealot accused me of being a lyer and made the accusation that Stardock products hack Windows.

brazil, ok, but what about the creativity, not a disection of the apps and the issues you have faced with them (not everyone has been through exactly what you have been through with the programs or computers (though I do not have a clue as to what you've been through with them))

Voodoo_Freak I like those and they really look sweet, but excluding a few astetic changes, they are a hald pipe, orbs and some textures...

I am not trying to take anything away form them in the least. Much better than I can do without a doubt. But, I feel the dynamic is totally different when looking to skin on a MAC and skinning on a PC. For someone to claim such a thing as 1. MAC skinners are more creative is a reach in my opinion and 2. to claim that all PC skinners are ripping (thieves another words) is down right ignorant...

Yup, what the hipster said.

Since Apple seems to have such a stranglehold on the whole graphics design industry, the ratio of people that actually have the skills to create good stuff is much better on the Mac side of life than in PC land. PC's are more for the average Joe who likes to drink beer and watch sports.

But... that has nothing to do with the system and more with the old prejudice that if you wnat to be a graphics designer you should work on a Mac.

thats ok mormegil, you can come visit and we'll go fishing though it's a bit cold right now theses days, mmm, think it is getting down into the high 70's to low 80's today

Sides, your an Artie`st hell with Designer

Just a thought ... but maybe the idea that Windows skinners are 'ripping' the work of Mac skinners comes from so many Windows skinners trying to emulate Mac type buttons (glassy/gel), at least in WindowBlinds skins. If you look at some of the older WB skins, you don't see as much of the glassy buttons, whereas the popular ones now are mostly glass button types.

Even though they don't get the popularity/downloads, I like seeing the new WB skins that strike out from the current mold to do something original.

Frogboy said: “But these days, a handful of skinners seem to be supplying the entire community on Windows.”

If what I describe doesn’t apply to anyone else, consider it one Jackass’s opinion. I have been discouraged from skinning because of all this, and I need to get over it. I don’t think we have much appreciation for the skilled hobbyist in our community. The Mac community doesn’t seem to feel the same.

Contrary to the recollection of some, I never predicted commercialism to be the death of skinning. I thought it would be the death of the elite hobbyist. Was I all that wrong? Elite skinners aren't filling the sections with gems, they are only giving us a couple of skins a year, and for one or two apps. The ‘best-of-the-best’, for-hire skins are mind-bogglingly great, but most are heavily-branded by those outside of the community, FOR those outside the community, most often for an exclusive app. Where are the SkinsFactory quality skins made just for the hell of it to the delight of their peers? Wasn’t that the mood in the beginning? Isn’t that the mood with the Mac folks?

I believe hobbyists are the ones that make or break this community. I was really alienated when I was told that I was foolish for not turning our hobby into a business by numerous people, over and over. The same could be said for any hobby; model airplanes to knitting. The hobbyist wants to make his own masterpiece for its own sake, regardless of compensation. Commercial endeavors are for the PUBLIC and the PUBLIC just wants something slick to match their Harry Potter lunchbox, or at least something mediocre with some Harry Potter stickers glued on. Personal interpretation of commercialism and ‘fan art’ aside, skilled hobbyists are alienated by such mainstreaming, and they are less apt to contribute and associate because of it.

That was what I thought then, and though I wish I had stated my concerns differently, I still feel the same. I have also accepted that there is nothing that can be done about it. The downloader is going to dictate the site, not the skinner.

I can fix my own attitude, though. I just have to stop being ashamed that I'm not producing commercially and do it for the love of the art. I also need to stop focusing on those without the creativity to make their own art. That, too, discourages us from creating and sharing. We aren’t benefiting ourselves by watchdogging and warring, we should be out-producing them and over-shadowing them with quality.

The spotlight needs to return to what made the community great in the first place, amateur artists creating beautiful skins just because they LOVE to make beautiful skins. That is what you see in the Mac community, I think, and what we have lost.

er, Frogboys implied question being: which skinning direction will flourish.

Bakerstreet, you've gotta get a blog going on JoeUser. That was an excellent post. I'm not sure how much I agree with it (have to think about it more) but it's really thought provoking.