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Z06Leonhart
Z06Leonhart
Join Date 11/2001
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Pledge of Allegiance Case

November 4, 2003 12:43:31 AM from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
The U.S. Supreme Court has agreed to decide whether the Pledge of Allegiance - with its phrase "one nation, under God" - is something students should be allowed to say in public schools.

A federal appeals court in San Francisco shocked many Americans when it ruled on June 26, 2002, that the words "under God" render the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional.... http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=\Nation\archive\200310\NAT20031014d.html


I think a lot people know about this case. It has been a while but now the Supreme Court have decided to hear the case. My class will have a debate on this next week. I just want to know what the adult think about this case.
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Z06Leonhart
XX
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #1 November 4, 2003 12:50:17 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Well... It IS a old song that should not be changed. No matter that goverment and curch(sp) should be two seprate things.
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Z06Leonhart
IPlural
Join Date 11/2001
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Reply #2 November 4, 2003 1:33:47 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I totally agree, the added text "under god" should be removed so the origional text is as it was written.

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Z06Leonhart
Ryan1598
Join Date 09/2002
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Reply #3 November 4, 2003 1:48:49 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I graduated high school a year and a half ago and I can't remember the pledge of allegience for the life of me... It's not like it was a huge deal to say it or not... I was probably too busy with stuff that is actually important in day to day life, rather than being repetitive with something that young people my age could care less of what it means.
I'm not saying I'm ungreatful for being able to live in this awesome country, but a pledge is a pledge. You only need to say it once
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Z06Leonhart
XX
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #4 November 4, 2003 3:35:40 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
the added text "under god


You sure it was added? I don't recall any alterations.
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Z06Leonhart
bordfryr
Join Date 05/2002
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Reply #5 November 4, 2003 4:49:48 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Yes, it was added. Sometime in the fifties I think.
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Z06Leonhart
yrag
Join Date 08/2001
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Reply #6 November 4, 2003 4:51:48 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge



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Z06Leonhart
paxx
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #7 November 4, 2003 11:20:57 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

I must admit that the whole concept of the pledge of allegiance, as a non-American, is really strange to me.  I was extremely surprised when I recently learned of its existance.
It's something you have to say every day at the beggining of the day, right?

Is it just me, or does it really sound like propaganda? I mean, I know dictators in Third World and Communist countries use this method to force their idea of patriotism into the kids minds... but in the US?  Doesn't it sound like brain washing to anybody but me?

Please don't misunderstand me here. I think the US is a great country that you guys should be proud of, it's just this brain washing practice I find really strange for a democratic country.

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Z06Leonhart
kona0197
Join Date 02/2003
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Reply #8 November 4, 2003 11:24:08 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums


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Z06Leonhart
XX
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #9 November 4, 2003 11:24:41 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Sometimes something doesn't make sense, but kept because of tradition.

Of course, I'll be proud to call myself un-american if United States becomes Imperial United States.
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Z06Leonhart
IPlural
Join Date 11/2001
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Reply #10 November 4, 2003 11:34:47 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
indeed
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Z06Leonhart
_footsie_
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #11 November 4, 2003 2:04:39 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I think it should be up to the students that are reciting it to include them if they choose...isn't forcing someone NOT to say or do something that harms no one the same as forcing someone to DO or say something that does?
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Z06Leonhart
Doreen
Join Date 03/2001
+26
Reply #12 November 4, 2003 2:21:14 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
??? but why would they do this? because the words "Under God" are so threatening? if they do this then why not go further and stop making ppl in court place their hand upon a Bible and "swear to tell the truth and nothing but the whole truth so help me God"

anyways, what about the ppl in court that have no faith in God do they get to lie or what? hehe
sooo silly all of it...
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Z06Leonhart
paxx
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #13 November 4, 2003 2:24:59 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
In US court, you must swear on the Bible?
Here, you have the choice of swearing on the Bible or making a solemn oath with your hand in the air. 
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Z06Leonhart
bakerstreet
Join Date 03/2001
+7
Reply #14 November 4, 2003 2:25:12 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
There are religious groups that refuse to say the pledge, and the non-religious have the same right. The pledge is optional, so I assume the 'under god' part is optional as well. If you chose to omit those two words I doubt anyone would reprimand you.The guy who originated this suit feels that his daughter is wronged even if she opts not to say it, though.

That goes a bit further. I'm not in favor of 'God' being on anything governmentally sponsored, but I also don't like the idea of kids being told they are no longer allowed to say 'under God', because then it appears that the government *discourages* religious language.

I think you should be able to say whatever you want as long as it falls in the legal description of free speech. If I had to agree with anyone here so far, it would probably be Paxx



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Z06Leonhart
Doreen
Join Date 03/2001
+26
Reply #15 November 4, 2003 2:30:39 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
yes I agree too you should have a choice...
I did not know you had the choice in court, maybe I watched it too much on TV but I always seen ppl in court have to place their hands upon a Bible and swear to tell the truth hehe
I thought welllll that sure lets the ppl off the hook that don't believe in God...
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Z06Leonhart
IPlural
Join Date 11/2001
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Reply #16 November 4, 2003 2:30:58 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums


How do you figure?

Change the Pledge back to the real wording and the issue is gone. period...

Everything else is nothing more than manuvering for or against religion in public schools and the seperation of church and state.

The origional pledge didn't have a thing to do with a specific display of religious beliefs. It was edited to do that.

Use the ogirional of the origional Pledge as it was created and accepted removes that political fire cracker from the issue of the Pledge.

Then those for or against can push their position on if Public Schools should be Christian Schools or not...

Otherwise, for those who push for the changes to stay are only making use of the Pledge as a tool to inject religion into Public Schools.

The odd thing is there are Bible Study clubs and such in public schools already, though I have yet to hear of one for Satanic Religions and or other Pagan Religions, odd huh?

Remove the changes, and it would be accepted hands down I am betting.

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Z06Leonhart
IPlural
Join Date 11/2001
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Reply #17 November 4, 2003 2:32:29 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
you do not have to put your hand on the bible or say anything you do not want in US courts...
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Z06Leonhart
IPlural
Join Date 11/2001
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Reply #18 November 4, 2003 2:33:51 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
yeah what Baker said

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Z06Leonhart
Z06Leonhart
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Reply #19 November 4, 2003 2:44:08 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
And what about the "In God We Trust" in the US money. Well 90% of the population want it in there only 8% against it and 2% undicided. So I guess the 10% minority is not important .
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Z06Leonhart
craeonics
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #20 November 4, 2003 2:45:09 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
craeonics goes play the ignorant foreigner
Pledge? What the? Every day? Why? What's the point?
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Z06Leonhart
Doreen
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #21 November 4, 2003 2:49:16 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
who knows but stick the word "God" anywhere and watch ppl get nuts... hehe
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Z06Leonhart
bakerstreet
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #22 November 4, 2003 2:55:30 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
IPlural: The problem is three generations of Americans have been saying "under God". Most wouldn't see it as a simple revision. Suddenly the US government will be perceived as discouraging optional religious language. Then the lawsuits start from the other side. It should never be put in, but now that it is... it is a big mess.

I personally think if they have one at all they could leave 'to the flag' out of it as well. "I pledge allegiance to the United States of America, one nation, indivisible..." would be more to the point and a bit less creepy.
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Z06Leonhart
Doreen
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #23 November 4, 2003 3:02:38 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
but what is next? look at your dollar bill "In God we trust" uh oh! there is that word "God" on it! OMG!
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Z06Leonhart
Doreen
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #24 November 4, 2003 3:03:35 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
or since it is on a "Dollar" bill the ppl that don't believe in God have no prob w/ seeing it there? hehe
so rediculous...
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Z06Leonhart
IPlural
Join Date 11/2001
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Reply #25 November 4, 2003 3:03:38 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
yeppers Doreen and BakerStreet...

I feel there has been a serious shift in the accepted definition of what it means to be patriotic in that to some extent.
I mean the Government for the People by the People is a nice thing to think, but sadly it seems more and more to be smoke and mirrors.

It is the nation and people we should pledge our allegiance to, the protection, support and gratitude for what such an assembly gives us.
Not some institutionalized lobby driven special interest seeking corporate pandering group who are professional politicians who plan a game of Risk on a global scale while playing at being the card holder and banker in a game of National Monopoly.

I know, I know and have heard it before, but remember I'm just a goof

I am very conservative in some ways while being just as extreamly liberal in others and the splinters at times hurt like all get out
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