Hard to swallow!

bucben

Join Date 04/2003

Hard to swallow!

Its with great pain that I must say good-bye. My troubles all started about a week ago when I summited a theme called "XP-X".I received an e_mail from jafo telling me it was rejected because it was a copy of boxxi"s gridscape. Knowing it was not-I resimitted and received the same e-mail.. I then resummited with a editors note that everything in said theme was made from scratch to the best of my knowledge and it was summited. Since that time my download numbers have steadaly declined. Its hard to beleive a theme goes from 100+ downloads a day to less than 5.I really feel like I"m being blackballed for whatever reason? Kinda weird when you consider I"m not makeing a dime off of any of my work. I"ve been coming to this site almost since day one and I"m just realizing that the politics here are borderline insane.I will miss some of you for sure but under these conditions there is no way I will continue to support this site!!!

Locked Post

Advanced Search

Watch this post

Do not email me updates for this post Email me updates for this post

Successfully updated karma reason!

I forgot to put in there. To make it better might also mean, take a diffrent approach. If one way doesn't work, try and test something else that might come in your head. There is no limits.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Snowman

Join Date 03/2001

+343

If you're around just for the high download count and are pulling your stash only because that count is dropping, you're in the wrong "business" dude! I getting around a total of 100/150 downloads a day on all my skins/themes here on WC, so dont complain if just a single one of yours are dropping.

btw how come your ID is so high if you have been here since day one?! From the looks of it, it looks more like your have made an account only just resontly.

Successfully updated karma reason!

because people change accounts for various reasons...

Successfully updated karma reason!

Sign Up or Login and this ad disappears!
There are many great features available to you once you register. Sign Up for a free account and browse the forums without ads.

mmm...

polemics n. the art of controversy or disputation

Successfully updated karma reason!

Really didn"t want to make another comment but felt the need. First thanx IPlural-that was the case. I had to reformat and just thought a fresh approach with a "cooler" name was in order,exspecially when I hadn"t been active on the site other than downloading.My theme ultamately was accepted by the way-just took three times to summit-same one.Its just that after that is when the numbers came down.And no-I"m not solely into the numbers its just that if you get poor ratings-even if your work is being downloaded-they are not available to the general public(almost 18,000)downloads for desktopx in a single month).This site should be for everyone-the paying and the non-paying-thats how you get more paying customers(I should know-spent 20 plus years in retail sales). This will be my last comment on this thread so for you who understand my position thank you very much and for you who don"t-you are entiteled to yours. Everyone have a great day!!!
[Message Edited]

Successfully updated karma reason!

Byes. You'll be missed ... for a minute or two. But I will never forget! *echoes "forget" lamely*

Successfully updated karma reason!

Personally the rating is not that important.The DL count however IS.That's how I judge the success and acceptance of my work.The rating can directly influence whether or not people even see your work.Some of you are missing the point,we 're not talking about a dl count tapering off gradually,we talking about site politics killing a skin overnight.A few people are abusing the ratings system and making this wonderful site less wonderful.

Successfully updated karma reason!

c242

Join Date 03/2001

+382

Or do absolutely useless comments on a thread like this *doesn't look at arraciFleahciM*.

Successfully updated karma reason!

c242

Join Date 03/2001

+382

bucben : As You deleted all Your skins in an unneccessary hurry it is hard to judge about anything You said...

[Message Edited]

Successfully updated karma reason!

Oh I'm not missing any points of perspective, but I am not going to limit mine either.

The way I see it is that *download counts* reflect peoples interest, rating reflects peoples opinion of quality which is based upon personal thoughts about a given skin or theme, icon, cursor, wall, etc...

Maybe a higher level for the ability to rate should be put into place and a lowering of rating level for public display should also?

Ratings serve many purposes across the board, some self serving but the larger number serves the beginning skinner, experienced skinner and community as a whole.

Download counts are just that, hell I can post a PDF on the web about how to become rich in 12 easy steps and fill it with crap and it will have a high download count which doesn't reflect the quality of the information or product, just that some people had an interest to see what is was about or like...

Now if people rate the PDF it would reflect what they think of it, comments would also depict just how ugly and personal they would take it ...

Successfully updated karma reason!

I still don't see the correlation between having to resubmit a skin and show it's authenticity and the drop in downloads. Presumably due to lower ratings although he doesn't explicitly say that, so how does the cause and effect he claims work and who is he accusing of what? The mods of rating his works low? The mods encouraging others to rate his work low? Is there some grapevine where non mods have access to the info re: moderation issues (that have not been publicly discussed here, that is)? I rather doubt that. Evidently low ratings are nothing new to him, since he said he gets low ratings elsewhere so apparently his work can get low ratings on its own merits without the "poliics" he now sees here. So how does politics enter in to his works' downloads as he claims? He hasn't made a case that I can see, just accusations.

But since whatever work he had here (with which I was unfamiliar anyway) is gone, there's no way for any one else to see if his work has been unjustly dogged or not. I've seen well rated work initially have a flurry of downloads and then dramatically drop without a change in rating. Just like most movies and their box office takes...people go and then move on to the next new thing. So whether that also could be the case or not cannot be determined since he rather conveniently removed the "evidence."

But then people who want to make their public manifestos already have their minds made up and don't post them here to open mindedly listen to alternative scenarios so adios it is. Taking a stand has more impact if people are familar with you and your work and it is still available for them to see. As it is, it's like a tree fell in a forest and most of us were at the beach at the time.

[Message Edited]

Successfully updated karma reason!

I too just went to see what the fuss was over but the evidence is already deleted.

For the record:

Wincustomize admins have no personal agenda against any submissions, we don't blacklist or interfere with anyone's downloads. I don't think there's even a way it would be possible to do such a thing. Speaking for myself, I try to do as much moderating as possible while I'm here and usually avoid the message board. It takes a lot of time to do the things we are expected to do and keeping up with the daily flow of emotions is something I would rather leave to the members.

Download counts are usually high for a couple days and then fall off DRAMATICALLY (seemingly overnight). This is perfectly normal as the piece is in the spotlight when it's first posted, everyone that wants to try it out downloads it, and then it becomes part of the 'catalog' which gets a lot fewer views. This is not an indication of any conspiracy, it's just normal behavior for any skin site.

If anyone ever feels something unfair or conspiratorial is being done to them, whether by the site or by individuals or by the evil gods of Rangnoor, you have an easy and effective way to deal with it. Write to us! All of us, one of us, Jafo, whatever... give it a shot. Generally communicating about something is much more helpful than complaining about something. Especially when that something probably doesn't even exist in the first place. We all have active imaginations (hey, we're artists right?) and we all have sensitive egos but why not take advantage of the group (community) compassion that does exist. No one wants anyone to feel bad here, we'll bend over backwards to prevent it. It amazes me how often I see someone go off feeling bad when a bit of communication, or perspective, could have prevented it.

Ratings? live with it... every site has ratings. We could pull the ratings from members, only allow admins to rate, but would that really solve anything?

Successfully updated karma reason!

Phoon

Join Date 10/2001

+382

Having been there as well, by putting my foot in my mouth once and pulling all of my work, I understand the heated frustration. My rejections were deserved and thus made me try even harder after I thought about the situation.
However, I have yet to experience the issues bucben is referring too. I agree that if you are just concerned with the DL count dropping off, you should have held off for awhile. Create because YOU enjoy it, not just for everyone else.
This site gets more ratings and DL's than any other site I have items on. I suspect that is due to the quality of content here, and the fact that the admins moderate the items that are posted.
I say keep up the good work WC.
Bucben, good luck to you wherever you land.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I feel for you Bucben, because I was forced to do the same thing too. There are a lot of politics here regardless of what the admins seem to want to portray. I won't mention names and some are kinder than others. I had to do the same thing myself regarding my skins. But, I've found that several non-admins really do appreciate the "free" work that artists share on this site. Maybe there is a lot of favoritism and quote "politics" here but you must understand that it is common throughout the world. So, why should Wincustomize be any different? Still, it is sad and quite frustrating at times. I think that what we as unhappy or angry artists with the politics here need to do is understand that we are creating for our own happiness and artistic development. And, when you occassionally get a nice personal compliment through your email about your work, it truly makes it all worth it. I wish that I had thought about that before I acted the way you did. But, I understand wholeheartedly.... >

Successfully updated karma reason!

Thank you ChasUGS-the truth of the matter it is sad to take your work to other forums that are less traveled.Regardless of what others might post here it is an injustice to have 162 downloads one day and 5 the next and say your work was not up to muster!!!I truely beleive that a few truely dictate to the many what,when, and how much.It is a shame-I feel this site is slowly looseing its grip on reality.I can take constuctive critism-but to know these facts and look at what this site does to downloads and uploads it leaves itself open to much deserved critism!Again-its not about dwindling downloads-but rather why-I don"t beleive I ever had a negative comment about any of my uploads!Its more like the old south in the USA-they are on the good buddy system!!!

Successfully updated karma reason!

I went through this myself a little while back. I got all pissed off reacted rather hastily and deleted my skins library...After a couple days passed, I calmed down, realized the error of my ways and fortunately was able to have my library restored.

It was quite a strange feeling those 2 days...I honestly felt something was missing...a kind of homesick feeling...It was because I was no longer a part of the Wincustomize family:)

Politics? There will always be politics...it's a fact of life. This system might not be perfect but it is a DAMN good system.

No one is forced to leave...It's your choice. I hope you make the right one.

Where else are you going to have a family that is this supportive? Where else are you going to have as much exposure of your artwork? Skinning is becoming extremely popular...Better stick around if you want the world to see your work, WC is always going to be the top site for Desktop enhancements

By tommorrow you will regret your decision...I noticed you deleted your skins already. They can still be restored...Just forget about the politics and keep skinning

Successfully updated karma reason!

Oh-just as a side note-how after several weeks and 2055 downloads does one get a bad rateing?

Successfully updated karma reason!

WOM

Join Date 01/2002

+253

Are you still believing in a conspiracy. This is Sunday. Downloads do drop off. Your DesktopX was up on the 7th. Thats 13 days. A lot of people don't use DesktopX. I don't. If you were a little more observant, you yould notice that sometimes they zero things out at wierd times now. Used to be midnight. Now its whenever. Sometimes at noon or 2pm or 11am. That will make you think that your downloads are low because you lost 10 hours of downloads for that day. It still is in your overall count though. I've seen it and I understand it.When your used to seeing 2-3000 downloads a day and you only see 1200 you wonder whats up. Then it's easy to figure out. They zero'd later in the day. Digest that.

Yes one doe's get bad ratings after 10000 + downloads. Mostly from people who like to mess with you or are jealous.
[Message Edited]

Successfully updated karma reason!

First let's just make a point. Download counts seldom taper off gradually. There are a certain amount of people out there who have whatever the app is you skinned (seemingly less so with DesktopX than WindowBlinds for instance). Those people are only likely to download once. The skin really only pulls major downloads in it's first few days while it is publicly visible in the new skins section or when it is in the first few pages on the desktopx section as that is where most are going to look first or in some cases when the download count has pushed it into the top ten downloads. Once it is out of the limelight or all people with DX have downloaded it already download counts will plummet.

On to ratings . Ratings are there to keep the costs of wincustomize down. Non registered visitors do not get to see skins rated below a certain amount. This is not a conspiracy against skin authors but a means of keeping bandwidth use down and also showing visitors what should be the 'cream of the crop'.

3rd and final. In most cases when people talk about 'politics', what they actually mean is that they had a disagreement with an admin. This is seldom to do with 'politics' and is more to do with the fact that we are all fallible (yes, even admins). Just take the time to explain your case without losing your rag and things can often get sorted out.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Anthony R

Join Date 01/2003

+59

You guys actually hang out and watch download stats

Why don't we all just watch our fingernails grow

Successfully updated karma reason!

As I recall, Chas, no one "forced" you to do anything (MemberGone as you called yourself then). There were site bugs and some confusion about how the site handled updates and you convinced yourself not only that you were the only one to experience them, despite feedback attesting to that from mods and other skinners here, but also that you alone were a personal target of the mods here. Others encountered the same issues without drawing the conclusion that they were singled out for persecution. Yet you did.

Buchen, since you are evidently still around, please explain how (that is, by what mechanism) mods here control the downloads? How is that even possible since it's a simple recording and frankly, I suspect the mods don't have access to the programming? (T-Man could easily confirm whether that is the case or not.)

As for how does one get a bad rating? There are some very prominent skinners (not just well known here but elsewhere as well) who have hundreds of thousands of downloads and some of their work have gotten poor ratings. But you want to insist on your singularity so don't let mere facts dissuade you from your belief. (BTW, how did you get poor ratings on the others sites since you say you did?)

[Message Edited]

Successfully updated karma reason!

You guys crack me up-yesterday7-19-2003 am here on the east coast 2049 downloads.Today,7-20-2003 pm east coast 2058 downloads-as a matter of fact no desktops theme in the first 20 or so had fewer downloads.I decided to download myself to make sure it was working-I beleive you can download once yourself and count against your total.After downloading and refreshing the page the same! Called my brother who lives in another city in the same state and asked him to download(he hadn"t downloaded before).The same total!!What more can be said!!The numbers don"t LIE!!!!!

Successfully updated karma reason!

Phoon

Join Date 10/2001

+382

hey bucben.. "buc" up, swallow your pride, admit you were being hasty and mad,.. and have your work restored. Nobody is going to hold it against you.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Have you , buchen, or anyone else taken into consideration that there might very well be someone who is doing things like this just to cause problems?

Consider this, someone went to the trouble of sending a worm to a user on the site and it went out to other users email address and so on, just to get some twisted jollies.

Did you ask if an admin could see the pattern of rating that took place for the given theme?

10 ratings 5 minutes apart by a number of yahoo, msn, hotmail account users is a pretty good indication of someone having multiple logins and abusing the site, your ratings paticular...

just some possibilities, accusation against personal character serves no purpose of a positive nature and they can turn a nasty trick of the person wearing them when everything comes out in the wash...

Successfully updated karma reason!

or the possibility of a pointer error? it do happen intermidantly...

Successfully updated karma reason!