any advice on tracking down a winXP crash problem?

feline

Join Date 04/2001

any advice on tracking down a winXP crash problem?

i am on the verge of going into hibernation, and stopping using my computer. that, or a total reformat.

my home machine (winXP pro) has two types of crash. both happen at complete random, and i can find no pattern or cause for these crashes.

in type 1 the machine experiences a hard lock. the screen just freezes, the mouse stops working, and the keyboard caps lock light no longer changes. the only option at this point is a hard reset >

in type 2 the machine spontaneously reboots.

both have happened to me already today.

now for the details:
i have run anti-virus and spyware checks, and found nothing.
i have a nvidia gforce2 MX 64meg graphics card, with the 40.72 drivers. these are not the most recent, but they are the most recent i have found where DVD playback still works.

i thought i saw a brief flash of blue when the machine spontaneously rebooted today, so it occurred to me i may have had a blue screen of death. so, i have just turned off the "automatically restart" option in system settings for dealing with a system failure. if i do get a blue screen of death, maybe it will give me some clues as to the possible root of the problem.

the only pattern i can provide is that the spontaneous reboots only happen when i am off line (56k modem, dial up connection) and the hard locks only happen when i am online.

i have been unable to find anything even close to helpful in the system event logs

i thought i had a pattern to the online hard locks, in that for every one of them microsoft messenger (the one bundled into winXP, msmsgs.exe) was always running. one night i had 3 hard locks in 3 hours with this program running *sob*

however, earlier tonight, online again, i had another hard lock without this program running.

i am under the impression that no application should be able to do this to my machine. since i have no evidence there is a hardware problem (and i don't really have the spending money to buy a whole new PC on the off chance) a driver problem seems possible. however, this doesn't get me very far.

knowing in the back of your mind that at any moment any and all work i am doing, and any conversations i am having, can be snatched away from me with no cause or notice, this is really starting to get to me. it is taking the fun out of using my computer

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i think we may be talking at cross purposes on the driver front. feline runs off to check device manager
feline now feels confused

two days ago, when i did the format and install winXP didnt know what my temp graphics card was, and simply said it was a VGA display device. this was backup up by the driver update on windows update.

today, in device manager, windows knows that it is a voodoo3 graphics card. strange.

either way, this card has issues with WB 4, i get a fair number of screen redraw artifacts. also, it *really* doesnt like me having 6 windows visible all at once. i had put the poor graphics performance down to windows not knowing what the graphics card is. apparently that isnt the real problem.

either way, the main point it the machine is currently stable!!!

so, providing it stays stable, i will be investing in a nice ATI card sometime soon.

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kona0197

Join Date 02/2003

+86

nice to hear that your machine is stable (kona is knocking on wood) You doing alot better than I am!

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*AAAGGHHH*
insert an insanely rude word here

i was just reading the post above when this machine hard locked!!! no notice, no warning.
i have been using the machine without any problems for the last 2 days.
the only change i have made today is to install (via restore from backup zip) DesktopX 1.96[b].003

when running DesktopX there is only 1 object in the theme, which is the online time DX plugin i wrote myself. if people think this might be the problem (and given the machine used to crash and hard lock without DX running this seems unlikely) you are welcome to a copy of the source code. however, i have just been online for over 2 hours with this running, and no problems.

since this is fresh in my mind, the running software was:
IE 6, 4 windows on different web sites
Tab launchpad ver 1.12[b].002
Keyboard Launchpad 1.00.001
WindowBlinds 4.00.006
ObjectBar 1.60a[b].001
DesktopX 1.96[b].003
CursorXP 1.30.013
Atguard 3.2
WordWeb 2.1
WS_FTP LE (ftp program)

i think that is the full list of software.
as i said, i was running an identical setup except for loading DX yesterday and i had no problems.

the only drivers i have installed are:
via 4in1 drivers, installed yesterday. they didnt seem to cause any problems
Microsoft Mouse drivers 4.1 (from memory) for my optical mouse, installed yesterday. again this didnt seem to cause any problems.

to be honest, i dont feel like giving any more time or energy to this right now. it is Saturday, and i simply want to go online and spend time with my friends without having to worry that my machine is going to hard lock, and loose all of my data without any warning.

the only software "solution" i can see left to try is to delete D drive, then change the size of C drive (win98), and then recreate D drive and reinstall winXP. this will offset winXP on the HD, so dealing with the problem of file corruption that isnt being fixed by a reformat.

personally i view this as a long shot at this point in the procedings.
so, i am off to swap back to my old machine. it may be a lot slower, but at least it is stable!

feline *cries*

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joetheblow - Don't ever trust the man...

all right, i just dont follow this.
what is so hard about putting a video card into an AGP slot? i did it 8 times and it didnt work once. he did it and it worked first time.

however, on the replacement video card i put it in and it worked without a problem. i have swapped video cards around in my work machine and it normally works.

i have no reason not to trust this man *shrug*
either way, i am not in the best of moods to be having this conversation right now.

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kona0197

Join Date 02/2003

+86

Sorry....

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while burning some CD's (backing up email, downloads, documents) in preperation to moving to the backup machine, i reached a concusion. since i dont feel i can face all the work of reorganising my room to swap machines and to transfer my online life *yet again* i am staying on my suspect machine for now, but i am not going to be running desktopX.

IF desktopX is the cause of this problem (grasping at straws big time here) then this is the only way to get any evidence of this fact.

unless this machine is live and in use, how can i track the problem? however, even 1 hard lock or reboot without desktopX running, and i am swapping machines.

i just wish i had some idea of where to go from here. if it is a software interaction problem then bying a new machine isnt going to fix this.

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kona0197 - You doing alot better than I am!

anything i can do to help? i dont want to see anyone i like go through the pain i am going through, not if there is something i can do to help.

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werewolf

Join Date 04/2001

+28

Whoa!!! Something just caught my eye big time. With the newest version of DX, using some of the fishies and the dxweather object, I'm getting os crashes also. I'm convinced it has to be something in DX or the scripting. If I cold boot with no DX running at all, no problems. If I then load DX with my fishies and weather object theme, I right click on the titlebar of any window to roll it up, then left click on the titlebar and BAM!! instant OS reboot. Totally reproducible. I haven't gone through the trouble of having XP show me the actuall BSOD. I emailed Alberto with my DX theme and a crashlog, so we shall see. Right now, I've got DX running with just one little fishy, a new one I dl'd today. I'm scared to try to reproduce the error again

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What WB theme are you using?

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werewolf

Join Date 04/2001

+28

When this first started happening, it was Crystal, but it doesn't matter which WB skin.

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Keyboard Launchpad 1.00.001

feline - if you disable anything then make it this...if you assign a hotkey and another proggie, by default uses the same one (without telling you), your going to get the penalty buzzer......

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yrag - if you disable anything then make it this...if you assign a hotkey and another proggie, by default uses the same one (without telling you), your going to get the penalty buzzer......

strange. i have had this effect by accident using ASA (i used to use it for hotkeys) and trillian.

i assigned ctrl_alt_c to ASA to show and hide one of its windows, and only later discovered that trillian used this hot key. i have never seen two programs responding to the same hotkey cause a problem before *shrug*

also, all of the hotkeys i have set up via KLP use the windows key. since i am avoiding the windows combos that use windows key, i should be quite safe from this overlap problem.

werewolf - Whoa!!! Something just caught my eye big time.

ah! now that is *very* interesting. while working out how to write a DX plugin i produced several that would crash DX on demand. however, these crashes never effected the OS.

well, it has been about 5 hours since the hard lock. DX has not been running, and i have had no problems *unsure* *uncertain*

i am fairly sure i am running a different version of DX to you, but for now i will leave DX totally alone, and see. would it be possible for you to let me know when you get a version of DX that fix's your problem? IF (and it seems a big if) DX is my problem also, i am hoping your fix might also fix my problem.

in the mean time i suppose i will just continue to hope that my machine wont crash

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I have been running latest DX with 6 fishies swimming on the desktop with no problems at all. Maybe the Weather thingy might be the problem (?)

Dell 8300 P4 3.06 512mg memory and ATI 9800 Pro videocard.

XP Home

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feline is now deeply peeved

i was having a conversation with someone in MSN messenger 6 preview, downloaded from microsoft. we decided to have a nice round of solitare. it loads for them, but not for me, and i kept on getting script errors.

so, since this clearly wasnt working, i decided to reboot. after the reboot, the machine was unable to connect to the internet. i got an error that the port was already in use, or mis-configured. since i hadnt dont anything other than reboot, and it was working fine before the reboot, this seemed rather odd.

so, i tried another reboot. same problem.

so, reboot again, and boot into win98. that loaded fine. shut down machine from win98. the thinking was just to shake winXP loose from the ports.

machine shuts down fine, then press power button to turn on the machine.

normally when pressing the power button i expect the machine to turn on. it didnt!

so, try again, again, and once more. then turn power supply at back of machine off, then on, then try power button gain.

go round this cycle for about 4 minutes, then suddently the machine decides to turn on

so, i boot into winXP. the machine has definetly been off for the famous 10 seconds to help clear any temporary (memory) settings. try and connect to the internet. port is unavailable or in use >

so, go to control panel, phone and modems, modem tab, select modem, select remove.
i wanted to re-detect the modem.
the process to delete the modem hung!!! i told windows to kill this process, shut down, and have just swapped back to my old machine.

i dont know what is going on here. the symptoms dont seem consistent, or fully reproducable. i am going to have to look at this tommorow

so, i am not exactly all that happy with things right about now.

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feline - This computer seems to be in 'self-destruct mode'. At this point, as a matter of your own personal satisfaction, I think maybe you should consider a 'pre-emptive strike' by blowing it up first! (the old "you can't quit, you're fired")

yrag2 marvels at feline's extraordinary tolerance

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1845

If and when you ever upgrade your computer...make it a 100% upgrade.....use NOTHING from the existing system....definitely NOT the Graphic card or the modem.....perhaps salvage the HD...but sell the rest to some poor unsuspecting sod who doesn't know....

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kona0197

Join Date 02/2003

+86

anything i can do to help? i dont want to see anyone i like go through the pain i am going through, not if there is something i can do to help.

how about loaning me 5 franklins so i can get off my laptop and running on a new system? at least yours comes on and powers up. My whole system is shot save the memory and hard drive and processor....

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kona0197 - at least yours comes on and powers up. My whole system is shot save the memory and hard drive and processor....

optimist!
based on current experience i cannot rely on my machine powering up *sigh*
[Message Edited]

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time for another update. following on from the unable to use the modem problem, i had another look.

i booted up the machine. the programs loading on startup are:
ObjectBar 1.60a[b].001
Keyboard Lauchpad 1.00.001
WordWeb 2.1
WindowBlinds
Tab Launchpad

i checked, and the modem didnt work.
so, i unloaded OB, KLP and WordWeb. now the modem works!

so, i rebooted, leaving all of these programs in the startup group.
they all load as expected, and the modem works.
reboot again, just to make sure, and the modem now works.

reboot again, and enter the bios. this is the reason for turning the machine on in the first place. i change the settings from the optimised defaults to the fail safe defaults, save these new settings, and then boot into winXP.

the modem no longer works!!! back to the error message about misconfigured, or already in use

i might ask how changing the bios settings can have this effect, but i wont.

so, since i wanted to get the exact version numbers of OB and KLP i loaded stardock central. this tried to connect to the net 2 or 3 times (bloddy irritating). after i had got the version info, i closed SC. on the off chance i tried the modem, and now it works!

please note that before now when the modem isnt working i have tried dialing 2 or 3 times myself and that has never fixed anything.

so, i rebooted, and the modem still worked.

the only other clue at this point is that on the boots when the modem was working it was taking a LONG time, in the 1 to 5 minute range, it varied quite a lot, for the machine to shut down. however, on the boots when the modem was not working the machine shut down in just a few seconds.

in isolation i would be strongly tempted to blame this on some strange software config problem. however, given one clean format ago i couldnt send any email on a totally clean install of winXP this doesnt make any sense.

so, the hardware expert is now in posesion of this strange machine, and is going to start by testing the powersupply. he thinks this may be causing some of the problems if it is faulty. it looks like any further news will be a few days (at least) in arriving.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1845

Change the modem...

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Use an external hardware modem.

Before XP was released I was using the Beta version and kept getting "the modem is in use". Changed to an external modem and had no further problems.

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Jafo, i am using the very same modem now, on my backup 400mhz win2k machine, and i have never had a single problem with it. also, this doesnt help with the hard locks and spontanious reboots while the modem was turned off.

mrtee, it is an external hardware modem

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Great.

Have you checked the RAM to make sure it is fully seated (mentioned earlier)?

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1845

feline....the same modem can be accesing/using different interupts in one comp as against another...perhaps even BIOS settings can influence which resources/address....so again, try a different modem...even a PCI one...

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This sounds like what happened to my computer. I had at the time a brand new HP computer. Only 3 days in home and it started that stuff with WinXP of course. What happened was that WinXP is set up to automatically update from the Microsoft site. It had downloaded the latest and greatest (cough), critical update for WinXP. The site even stated it to be important update. Well it crashed my computer. My computer started acting funny, then it started to reboot at will, and with lock ups. I reformatted and it went away and I shut off that auto update.

There are a few reasons I came up with the conclusion it was that critical update as the culprit.

1. My other computer did same thing afer exact same update.
2. My friends computer did it within hours of that update.
3. Someone in a chat room was complaining of the exact problem and when I suggested the removal of the update and the did that, their problems were solved.

You might check to see if it did an auto update with the critical patch after June 15, 2003. It is an evil little bugger.

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