feline

Join Date 04/2001

why does windows XP occasionally completely lock?

somewhat off topic, but i am hoping someone here will have a bright idea.

i have windows XP pro installed on two machines, my home machine and my work machine.

on both machines, windows will now and then totally lock. when this happens the screen stay the same, so no error messages, no blue screen of death, but also no change. the mouse does not work, the keyboard does not work, i cannot even get the caps lock or num lock lights on my keyboard to change. the only thing i have found that works is a hard reset.

my home machine is a fresh install, with no patches or SP's on it yet.
my work machine has every patch and SP going, except for 11 "windows" updates, like media player 9, etc, that shouldn't help fix it.

so, installing patches seems unlikely to fix this problem.

the only real clue i have is that on my home machine this nearly always happens when i am on line (dial up connection, 56k modem). but even then i can go for a couple of weeks or more with no problems at all.

it has happened once already (last night) since my fresh install of windows on my home machine, so i know the bios update i did didn't help.

any helpfully suggestions will be gratefully received.

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If you have some bad spots on your RAM, that will cause the machine to lock up. Wouldn't bother ME but XP is more sensitive to that.

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What kind of mouse and peripherals do you have feline? I once had a problem with my work machine recognizing the network, turns out it was because the mouse was incompatible. Maybe you have a bad/corrupt driver of some sort?

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WOM, the ram idea is possible. i did have that problem once before on an old win2k machine.

do you know any good and reliable ram checking programs? i tried one on my old machine which said all of my ram was bad, but only one of the ram chips seemed to be causing a problem.

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Hus - What kind of mouse and peripherals do you have feline?

i have a microsoft optical wheel mouse, and a microsoft ergonomic keyboard.
the modem is using the default driver windows installed.

the crashes at work may be related to the internal network.

i have now had 2 lockups in 2 days on the net, but the first few days it was fine. so as a long shot experiment i have turned off window blinds, in case that is stressing the nvidea video drivers to much when on line

i have got to try something, and that is something i can try *sigh*

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Sorry feline, that problem was figured out when I took the machine in and they tested everything. Thats when I changed over from ME to XP and XP kept blowing up. Couldn't figure out why and thats when I gave up and took it in.

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Here ya go feline http://www.memtest86.com/

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thanks yrag, i will try that.

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well, i tried that memory checker. it did two passes in normal mode, and didnt report any problems.

that seems to suggest this is some form of software / driver problem *sigh*

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c242

Join Date 03/2001

+382

Just a try : Do You have RAID-controllers installed on these machines ? I had some similar problems with Promise raid-controllers installed. I gave up on that one and de-activated them. No lock-ups anymore since then...

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c242, no RAID on the machine.

someone at work made an interesting comment a few minutes ago. they used the drivers that came with their modem for winXP, and winXP kept on crashing when they tried to go on line.

my machine has 2 modems. there is an external modem which winXP auto detects and simply uses. this one works fine.
there is also an internal PCI modem which winXP needs drivers to use. however, it didn't come with winXP drivers (or i haven't yet found them

). so i have disabled this modem in device manager.

so, there is the slim chance this modem is somehow a factor.

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I have XP Pro., and when I added another 256 mem card to bring my total mem. to 512, I had HUGE freezing AND automatic rebooting probems. When I took out the 2nd (new) card, it took about a week before my system 'calmed', and the freezing and automatic rebooting quit.I was told it was probably a bad mem. card? XP apparently is extremely sensitive to ANY slight driver and/or mem. 'problems' or 'bugs', as it uses any extra ram that you put in as opposed to other OS's that don't necessarily make use of all the ram. At least that's what I was told by the guy who made my computer. Sorry for the long-winded response, and it's probably not much help?? I just can empathize, I guess! Been trying to figure this out for awhile myself...still does it now and then...
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goodmorphing

Join Date 03/2002

I found this:
http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1049315428

http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/article07-200
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goodmorphing

Join Date 03/2002

http://www.zdnetindia.com/news/stories/28429.html

Office XP and Windows XP are capable of deactivating if the user makes radical changes to a computer's hardware configuration, which could trick the software into thinking it has been moved to another system.

"When you activate, what it does is lock the software to the hardware--takes the signature of the hardware," explained Guernsey Research analyst Chris LeTocq. "The technology is designed to detect changes in the configuration. Should the hardware fingerprint change, the activation technology may think you're running the software on another machine."

The potential for problems is greatest on desktops whenever consumers or businesses upgrade components, but it can also affect notebooks, where software could be rendered virtually useless on the road if the owner made substantial hardware changes.

Tom Bailey, Microsoft's lead product for Office, acknowledged this scenario can happen.

"In order for the activation to take, it identifies a wide variety of components in your system," he explained. "If a certain number of components change over time--for example, you get a new video card, add memory, this, that or the other thing to that PC--it will ask you to reactivate."

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thnks for the link! I've tried the 1st elimination list before this, but the other articles and stuff sent in by other users there might help...

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Just read the activation message from you...I upgraded to N Nvidia GeForce video card, AND I added the 256 ram shortly afterwards...??? After the Nvidia card was added, I had to reformat entirely, because I kept getting automatic reboots all the time, and got the message (from microsoft)that it was due to 'device driver' problems...after reformatting, it STILL happened, so I took out the new mem. card, and it's better...
?? Now what? I'd still like more mem., and I'm thinking about adding another 40G hard-drive. Help?

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c242

Join Date 03/2001

+382

Adding a HD doesn't harm XP activation.

And phoning MS doesn't, too. I think I had to phone 5 times until now for a new Product-ID after changing boards and processors.

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c242

Join Date 03/2001

+382

Hmm and I often notice that people re-format too fast.

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i am fairly sure it isn't a windows activation problem that i am getting. i haven't changed any hardware since i installed windows.

i have run a memory checker on my ram, and it came up clean, so hopefully there are no ram problems.

a driver issue makes sense, but isn't very reassuring. i think the only 3rd party drivers i have installed are:
* latest nvidia video drivers
* creative webcam driver
* via 4in1 motherboard driver

i am still toying with the idea it is one of the programs i am running, but i was under the impression that normal programs shouldn't be able to take down the OS like that.

c242, with regard to the reformatting issue, i have been there myself. if you install a driver windows chokes on, the only way i know to get it out again is a reformat

it happened to me, apparently due to a conflict between an earlier nvidia graphics driver and my old bios version. i tried everything i could think of to uninstall the driver, but had to reformat in the end.

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Are the Extended BIOS settings disabled?

ASUS Mom-board, 1.3gtz AMD, 1.5 gig ram, GForce 2 mx400,
2 10/100 Network Interface Cards (NIC's) and XP Pro

The above described hardware ran great until I enabled the Extended BIOS tweaks.
Then I was running into intermittent lock ups and crashes. Also the keyboard and
mouse would quit functioning at odd times, even on bootup at times.

So I went through each extended setting in the BIOS and tried all combinations until
I did find out that Shadowing one specific setting was doing the dirty deed on me.

-------------------

On another note: Slot roulette might be in order.

Have you tried moving the peripheral cards to different slots to test if slot location
is an issue?

slot 1 : modem
slot 2 : sound card
slot 3 : network card

slot 1 : network card
slot 2 : modem
slot 3 : sound card

like the above?

By default times IRQ's are assigned to specific PCI slots.

At times Windows XP will assign resources used by a card to another card
that does not share resources well with others. This can cause all kinds
issues.

Also is it a Hung application or a locked up system?

Hung app, you can almost always hit the NUM, CAP Lock's and turn the lights
on your Keyboard on and off.

Locked system allows nothing, even a 3 finger salute (warm boot (crtl-alt-del))

anyway, some possibilities, hope it gets figured out as I know how frustrating
a dysfunctional system can get. I have the bent keyboards to prove it

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ah, not trying to sound or be anything other than positive and helpful here.

QUE Books has some fantastic books on Building, Troubleshooting, Repairing and Upgrading
Computers. Most are between $40.00 and $50.00, but it is money well spent because it will
give a person the information up to the depth that they wish to go in learning the deeper
operations of PC's.

Almost all of them hold information starting at Beginner levels up to Advanced levels of
information. It's a good path to ("owning" (not as a purchased item)) compukers

Of course everyone learns something new from all kinds of sources all the time.

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Fuzzy Logic

Join Date 05/2002

+493

Are there any error messages in event viewer?

The only black screen lock-up I've seen in XP was due to Nvidia drivers crashing. XP should make a report of that in event viewer. Are you using the 44.03 drivers? The drivers previous to that weren't too good. Before 44.03 only 30.82 were really stable drivers.

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c242

Join Date 03/2001

+382

Hmmm... Weren't VIA drivers said to be faulty often ? I always had Intel chipsets, so I really don't know. Maybe I am really outdated on that matter... Otherwise a matter not disussed yet is a faulty HD. But You said You had that matter on both machines, so that would be near to impossible. I also read somewhere some time ago, that bad install CD's (bad files mustn't be recognized during install) can cause some trouble. IPlural gave some good tips also, I would try that, too. Just doing a little brainstorm here.

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so, there is the slim chance this modem is somehow a factor.

have you pulled the internal modem to see if the issues is resolved by doing so?

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feline..it could, as lPlural said, be your internal modem. Disabling sometimes doesn't free up the resources that were assigned to it and locks up when the external modem uses the same resources. It sounds more like your graphics drivers though. Use this program http://www.softnews.ro/public/cat/12/1/12-1-28.shtml to get rid of any Nvidia drivers in your System32 folder and then do a fresh install of 44.03 http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?IO=winxp-2k_44.03

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to answer several questions at once

i cannot find any references in the event viewer about drivers crashing. or anything else that sounds like a crash for that matter.

when this happens, it is a total windows lock, so even keyboard lights stop working >

i have the latest nvidia drivers as of 1 month ago, i believe they are the 44.03, i will check on that tonight though.

yrag, without trying those programs, what do they do? i ask, because when i install winXP it detects the video card, and pre-installs a basic driver during install. is this driver one i need to try and remove? i went straight from that driver to the 44.xx ones i am using now, so no "bad" drivers in between were installed.

c242, it is a brand new HD, which formats fine. so, hopefully there are no problems with it *hope* *hope*

i can play diablo II for hours at a time, which suggests to me it isn't a video driver problem this time.

the comments about the internal modem are interesting. i will try removing it. perhaps this is a real possible problem. it would explain why being online seems to be a requirement for this problem to show up.

it is just a 1/2 hour operation to get my case open, since there are lots of things on my desk around my computer

so, i am loath to open up the case to often

feline hopes that will make everything all better

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