The Matrix Reloaded Plot Theories

Asimo

Join Date 08/2002

The Matrix Reloaded Plot Theories

*** SPOILER ALERT ***

A few notes before you continue on with this thread:
1) There *will* be spoilers
2) If you’re here to talk about how much you hated the movie, please take it to the appropriate thread

With that said, after viewing Reloaded I was left with as many questions as I went in with, so if you have a take on what happened in the movie, please post ‘em here.

My thoughts on a few things:

.=Zion=.
Two things that we know for sure at the end of the movie is that a) Neo stopped a sentinel while “outside” of the Matrix, and

Agent Smith is now in Zion. These two facts point to one thing: Zion is not the “real world” but is, in fact another portion of the Matrix.

.=The Coma=.
After stopping the sentinel Neo slips into a “coma”. I believe that Neo had a moment of ‘self realization’ when he did this that ‘blew his mind’, so to speak. If Zion is still technically within the Matrix, then it is very conceivable that Neo is AI and this realization caused a failure in his code. Or if he is human, it could be that this portion of the Matrix has a different security level in the code and since we’re still technically bound by the rules of the Matrix while within the Matrix, Neo’s realization causes a system error that boot’s him from the system. Either way I think that the coma is induced by code that is either a) written that way so if you “become aware” within this portion of the Matrix then you get kicked from the system, or

an error in the code that cannot handle self realization in this portion of the Matrix.

.=Zion Revisited=.
If Zion is still a part of the Matrix, or a different ‘security level’ then everything that entails getting to Zion (taking the red pill, breaking free, getting flushed, etc.) are part an elaborate program to convince these individuals that they are now free of the Matrix and are now in the “real world”. If this is the case then it is still entirely possible that everyone is AI and this is an attempt by the larger part of the system to “convince” these portions of the AI that they are, in fact human. If everyone is not AI, then it still makes sense to create an area like this to ‘contain’ these renegades that cannot be contained by the “level 1” version of the Matrix.

.=The Rave Scene=.
There are no gratuitous sex scenes in The Matrix, and I believe that this scene is imagery of a much larger event, that being the union of Neo and Trinity. Perhaps it is of major significance that their “code” merges, or perhaps it is important that we see that they are passionate for one another rather than assume that they are. If we never seem them “together” then we can only assume that they have been intimate, so I think that we’ll find out that it was important that they “merged”. This could actually be a huge point of the last movie.

.=Random Thoughts=.
If AI is written good enough it will not be able to comprehend that it is AI, as this is self defeating to a “pure” AI system. Is it possible that we are watching the creation of the first AI ever that Morpheus mentions in the first Matrix? Is this cycle of Zion a recompiling and running of new code to test the compassion level of the AI towards humans? Could it be that Neo, is in fact the purpose of the AI and the point is to create AI (Neo) that is 100% compassionate towards humans so as to advert world destruction. Did they run a simulation of the AI and deem that if left to its own devices that it would attempt to destroy humanity, so Neo is the “fine tuning” process to make AI “compassionate” towards humanity? The one “failing” of humanity, according to the Architect is hope, and Neo now has that...

I have more but my fingers are tired

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Hi there -- some clues from the Animatrix and the Matrix Revolutions:

The Matrix: Revolutions --
1. Seraph, Morpheus & Trinity storm “a discotheque of some kind” where people wearing black half/full face-masks (akin to those seen in “Amadeus” times) are dancing/partying
2. Trinity, pointing her gun (at the Merovingian probably) says “give me Neo or we all die right here right now”
3. Merovingian (not shown) says “you’re ready to die for this man?”
4. Trinity cocks her gun and says “believe it.”

The Animatrix: The Second Renaissance – Part I
1. B166-ER’s murder trial sets the stage for a global “Machine Subjugation Legislation” of sorts (similar to the X-Men “Mutant Registration Act” but worse because Machines are simply slaughtered akin our WWII atrocities). B166-ER “killed” his “owners” amidst an argument that probably ensued with their decision to “destroy their property” and testified that “he simply did not want to die.” A trade embargo on Zero-One (the Machine Nation) then ensues when the surviving Machines build more advanced AI which then begins to prosper by selling hi-tech goods to Human consumers.
2. Zero-One Peace Ambassadors to the UN are then rejected.

The Animatrix: The Second Renaissance – Part II
1. Human Armies rain nukes on Zero-One
2. Zero-One retaliates – now with the new and more advanced AI in control of Zero-One (presumably – because these new War Machines are aggressive and destructive with no regard for Humans whatsoever
3. Zero-One gains the upper hand due to advanced weaponry and their immunity to nuclear fallout
4. Human Armies carry-out “Operation Dark Storm” that effectively recaps what Morpheus said in M1 and begin their final offensive
5. Zero-One inflicts “great suffering” on the Human Armies effectively ending the war and constructs the “battery farms” with all the human bodies it managed to claim from the campaign

Notes: there are many machines in the real world. each one is independent of the other and yet dependent on each other. and there are those whose only purpose is to control. and there are those whose only desire is to not be controlled.

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I need to get the Animatrix on DVD…

So, after watching Reloaded again yesterday I’m going to have to step down from my “this is how it is” soapbox when it comes to Zion being a sub-Matrix, because I just don’t see it like that anymore. At least not 100%... I now feel that the dance/party scene and Neo’s kiss with Persephone are two very important scenes. There are no rules in dance. You just move because it makes you feel good. There’s no “logical” reason for dance other than getting your swerve-on, and by watching that again I think that all of those people in that dance were very human. The movements, the sweat, it was all something that we, as humans naturally understand, yet there is no explanation for it. And the passionate kiss is something that the machine can’t fully understand either. It can replicate a kiss, but it cannot replicate a kiss and make one another feel “like you mean it”, something which we humans are very capable of. I dunno, but it now seems to me that the human elements of Zion are shown at length for "human" reasons.

Another thing that I picked up on: Lawrence Fishburn it a great actor, but in these films he’s very rigid, as if they’re asking him to act that way. The more he talks the more he sounds like the Agents when they speak. The more he moves, the more he moves in the “stiff” manner of the Agents. The “truth” serum/program that they were trying to use on him in the first movie didn’t seem to have an effect on him. Morpheus moves, acts, and reasons like a machine. And when presented with a situation where someone said something to the effect of “… let’s hope you’re right.” Morpheus replied with, “I don’t hope, I know.” And as we now know, the machines/AI haven’t (or can’t?) programmed hope into their systems because they think that it is a flaw in human design.

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Question:
If they (the architect/AI) *really* wanted Neo to pick the door to the source (to save Zion) then why did they show him that Trinity was dying, and why did he all but talk Neo into going back into the Matrix, and why even allow the choice of the door back into the Matrix?

Just more random thoughts… hehe…

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Because the oracle was right, Neo had already made the choice that he was going to try and save Trinity. This was done overtly when he asked her to stay behind and his later actions continued that. She died, like everyone said she would, but he didn't accept that state of affairs.

One could rationalize various explanations for how the architect went about his spiel, but it serves to highlight free will vs. predestination.

There's another line from early in the film that stands out to me as well. It's during the discussion of the drilling and (paraphrased) "250,000 machines, one for every man, woman, and child in Zion". Morpheus makes his entrance and says something to the effect of "That sounds exactly like the thinking of a machine to me."

One wonders how far symbiosis goes in the rabbit hole...

For the dance/rave bit, a fundamentally life-affirming process. R rating or not, Neo and Trinity weren't the only ones getting lucky that night. Everything about the interaction was overtly sexual. Right down to the one kid (I guess from the animatrix) giddy with excitement asking if it had started. First time for him.

Think about it in a historical context as well. If they've only been in Zion for 100 years (by their reckoning), they must have had a great need to crank up the 100% home-grown human production.

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what plot? this was the most stupidest movie this year, and BORING!!!!!

i told my friends to wake me up when it was over.

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I'm sorry that you didn't get it. I can offer lessons at a reasonable price.

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Paul –
There were two things posted to begin this thread: one was that this thread would contain spoilers, and the second was the following:

2) If you’re here to talk about how much you hated the movie, please take it to the appropriate thread

What you have done in your post here is off topic, completely disrespectful to the rest of the community here, and is nothing but trolling.

Please, show some respect and let those who want to talk about this talk about this. If you want to talk about how much you didn’t like the movie then there’s no one stopping you from making a thread about it, so feel free to do so, but please, show a little respect to the rest of the community. There are more people using these boards than just yourself.

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Nakor-
I’m not following your first paragraph (Because the Oracle was right…) too well. (Mongo slow, please bear with me). I understand that the Oracle was right about Neo already having made up his mind to save Trinity, and I think that is because he can now see “past” his choices (that being that he knew that he could revive her), but I still can’t grasp why, if it is so important for the survival of the machines for Neo to return to the source, that they showed him Trinity dying, knowing that he would go back in and attempt to save her. Or do you think that they didn’t think that he’d actually go back? Perhaps it’s important for the code that he carries that he make the choice himself? I dunno, but it sure does seem like they set it up for Neo to go back into the Matrix instead of going to the Source... as if the really didn't want him to go through the other door in the first place. Like this was their final poker face and they played the BS card as well as they could.

[Message Edited]

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My argument (to keep things in a simple context) would be that the Oracle and Architect were right that Trinity was going to die.

By extension, Neo had already made the choice she was going to die by attempting to protect her by asking her to stay out of the Matrix. And she did die.

What's "different" about Neo is he "saw past that choice" and was able to save her.

In terms of the survival of the machines? Have you ever seen that picture of a bridge in the western US in the 50's or so? The construction of it missed what was to become an engineering principle and certain conditions happened that allowed a natural resonance to be setup which destroyed the system (in that case the bridge).

As the One, there is a certain pressure valve for the Matrix. A way to allow the impulses of those who"'ve felt it your whole life" (ref: Trinity's first talk with Neo in the club in M1) to be channeled and controlled. Either by being delivered from Matrix (those that are pulled out), by believing in the One to come and deliver others, simply being human (those born in Zion, outside the bounds of the Matrix and its programming), or by being the One and feeling a responsibility to a generalized humanity.

As far as the Architect wanting him to make the choice he did... this gets very much into a speculative realm. I can think of (and have hinted at) plot reasons that this interation of the One ("interesting, that was faster than the others") should be treated differently.

Some of those revolve around Persephone.

It'll be entertaining to see, I expect. I really don't want to delve too far into what might happen in M3. I think its fun for the moment to see what can be teased out of the first 2 with a different perspective.

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Nakor, i agree with your points on Neo being able to see past his choice, it makes for all more a plot on what his true abilities are and how they keep growing and developing. Also it ties in with the fact on a previous point of how people who are freed from the matrix are humans on a higher level of thinking, maybe even super humans and we could consider Neo being like a professor x or even a apocalypse from the future who no one knows why he got there. All the more for a reason why there should be a trilogy of prequels (Im a fan of knowing why things happend before which is why i am really siked about animatrix) and another trilogy of what happens after the fact if Neo does not succeed.
Good Forum by the way

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*** SPOILER ALERT ***

If you're playing the video game and you're following the story then this is going to be a big spoiler, but remember, this thread is all about currently available Matrix spoilers

With that said...

.=This is from someone who just finished the game=.
I finished Enter the Matrix as Niobe and after Niobe helps takes down the Power Plant so that Neo can enter the source, she returns back to her ship. Shortly after that, she gets a call from Seraph. He actually calls her ship, the Logos, from the Matrix. He tells Niobe that the Oracle wants to see her. Niobe goes into the Matrix and visits the Oracle. The oracle has a new body. The Merovingian has something to do with this. She tells Niobe that when Neo entered the Source ,his mind was separated from his body and now he is somewhere between the Matrix and the real world, and Trinity is fighting like hell to save him. I can't remember the conversation verbatim, but it was something pretty close to this. I will watch a few more times tonight.
.==.

Very interesting... Makes me think even more that Zion is not a sub-Matrix and that the "choice" that Neo was presented with in the architect's chamber was actually the "illusion of choice" that the Oracle spoke of, where she also said that these "choices" were vital to the flow of the Matrix itself, and without choice, the Matrix would cease to exist...

The Oracle said that the illusion of choice was the key to making the Matrix work... That without it the Matrix fails.

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whoever created matrix suffers from a lack of creativity.

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Whoever created you suffered from a lack of foresight, Paul. Take your trolling elsewhere and leave the grown ups to debate one of the most intelligent movies of late.

Agent Smith in a human body... how?

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KarmaGirl

Join Date 03/2001

+118

Paul Williams, please take this as a warning.

Stay out of this thread. If you do not want to discuss plot points of the movie, then don't post on this thread.

Saying "shut up- stupid people" will not be tolerated.

This is my only warning.

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I'm told there is something in the game along the following lines:

a comment that the last iteration of the Matrix or Zion or something only lasted 72 hours? Anything on that?

The Merovingian coming through (on some levels) on his "her time is up" bit works well. Esp. given her comments on his power.

I've avoided looking, but is he in 3? Is the actress who plays the Oracle?

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KarmaGirl

Join Date 03/2001

+118

I've always been interested in how they always know his (Neo) choice, but keep saying that he needs to understand why he made the choice. It's kind of like he is already programmed to do the right thing, but by understanding why he does it, it can change something somehow (like saving Trinity even after he had chosen to let her die).

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It's my understanding that the Oracle is supposed to be in matrix 3, but the actress who played her in 1 and 2 passed awy before filming her bit.

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I think that she tells him to understand why he made the choice because it is a “power” that he is not currently in touch with, but he clearly has. He does things at times that almost make no sense to himself (like going upstairs in the beginning when he ‘sensed’ the agents) and realizes why he did it only after it is done. Like in the first movie with the kung-fu: at first he uses it within the boundaries of the Matrix, but once he understands how to stop thinking about it and just do it, he is able to manipulate the Matrix almost at his desire. Perhaps they know what choices he will make because they are basing his actions somewhat on probabilities, something which machines are very efficient at (nuke bomb technology is an example of this in action).

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1845

After the sequence with the 'Architect' I kept having thoughts of those strange creatures known as Scientologists....and thinking any minute now a 'Matrix' religion willbe registered by some very 'strange folk' just as occured in the UK with the Jedi from Star Wars.

That being the case, I think the parallels to such things biblical is a valid theory.....it's all about 'life' and 'being' and 'belief'.

Interestingly, the last time I can recall people discussing the 'meaning' within a film so extensively was back when 2001 came out....and endless debates about the 'why' of it all.

This is something that the likes of Star Wars will ever have to worry about, being such kiddie brain-food.

The true 'worth' of a movie is its subsequent debate...

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Jafo –
Lets hope that the biblical (several religions actually) references/symbolism throughout the two Matrix films are blatant enough that people realize that these movies are not preaching a new word, rather telling bit’s and pieces from existing religions… But on the bright side, if they were organized enough to form the plots of this trilogy into “The Truth”, then perhaps we could point them to this thread to have them clear up some of my questions! Hehehehe…

The Jedi… oh my… hmmm, are there Sith? Wait, don’t answer that, heh…

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He didn't sense the agents, imho. He sensed Smith.

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my- are we not in a hissy fit- karma girls comments to me. btw- asimo started attacking me for disagreeing with her. alot of you folks here are really senistive. you need to chill out.

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one more thing karma girl- lots of people do not like matrix-so get used to it.

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hey grayhaze- go screw yourself.

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Paul Williams, without derailing this thread, Asimo did not attack you for disageeing with her.

You trolled here and intentially insulted people, and with complete disregard for the topic at hand, namely discussing the various plot points behind the movie.

No one cares whether one person liked or disliked the movie. That's not the point of this thread. There is another thread for that.

What is not acceptable are trolls and flames, which you have initiated. It's obvous that ou posted to get a rise and negative reaction from people.

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