Xerraire very true perhaps so, but we have alot of other stuff going on & in "our" schools but I guess that is besides the point the point is none of this had to happen if ppl seen a sick man in power at the first sign of it, they should have gotten/and or taken him out a long time ago, problem solved case over...
and on to the next when the next nut pops up? you don't wait for cancer to grow before you remove it.

Xerraire.
Point 1. Where does the 'suicide vest' story specify that kids were to use these weapons?
No different to storing any other form of munitions in schools or other public buildings that would be off limits to the 'western' way of thinking. Just another media beat-up!
Point 2. Spying on the UK by the 'Russians'? Old news, everyone 'spies' on everyone. So what, more media hype.
Point 3. 'Media' reports are far from being reliable sources of information in times of peace, let alone 'War'.
If they can't get hold of a 'good' story some creative writing is the order of the day!
Point 4. One of the non-public sources I have access to has reported the destruction of 90% of the material on exhibition or in storage at the Baghdad Museum by 'looters'.
What could not be carried away has been destroyed ..... over 7000 years of history, nothing of note related to the Hussein period, but another resource that would have assisted the eventual recovery of Iraq and the people.
Destroyed by Iraqis certainly, but why no 'Policing' by the US Forces .... there are units 'protecting' the Iraqi oil resources, but it appears that hospitals or genuine cultural centres (for example) are not valued.
'Victory celebrations' by a liberated populace can rapidly turn into looting sprees which escalate from the dubious but understandable ransacking of 'Government' buildings to private business's (large and small!) to senseless destruction of vital support facilities for the people (genuine hospital and medical centres) on to the inevitable mob mentality of 'smash everything!'
Certainly the allied forces are spread thin, but the Royal Marines seem to have taken the task of maintaining a semblance of order in Basra and other of their operational areas, the Australians are out there doing what the SAS do best, while the US troops in the capital appear to be disinterested in doing anything regarding order.
Granted, no sane person would want Martial Law of the Hussein style invoked, but some brake must be placed on the growing conflict between the looters and the lootees .... the number of citizens of Baghdad asking 'where are the Americans' expecting (and rightly so) some order from the invading troops seems to be growing.
The time to start 'winning' the peace is right now ...... running around in ever decreasing circles attempting to turn up evidence to justify the so-called 'Police Action' is counter productive and will undermine any hard earned feelings of warmth the average Iraqi citizen is feeling toward the coalition troops.

I just skipped through all this "Stuff", to say...Hello

I think it can be regained if they get on there feet about it. There has to be community leaders about. Do potrols, warn looters once, most probaly will listen, other will be caught and held for a week. No charges but held, fed, and releases on thier own. This and other measures should quiet some of the storm. Other crime will arise and there will be a need for that infrastructure soon. It will have to be done by mostly Iraqies, but order will come mostly from the military.


@ China

Of course, that came from an unofficial source....

Except Puerto Rico does not pay Federal taxes (unlike Canada and Mexico)

Xerraire, just a question.
If I agree with you that Russia/France/Germany were opposed to the war out of interest, under your very logic, should you not also be looking for what were the US/UK interests for WANTING this war?
I mean, lets be fair with all sides.
Yes, one could find suspicious the fact that these countries were so much opposed to the war. But then, logically, one must also find suspicious the fact that the US wanted this war so much. Fair is fair.

BTW, nobody yet has said anything about how weird it is that the US did not use Saudi Arabia in this war. The invading troops were based in Koweit and Qatar. Nothing in Saudi Arabia. Haven't anybody noticed how since 9/11, Saudi Arabia isn't so much a friend country with the US anymore?
Associate that with the fact that S.A. is the US #1 outside oil suplier, with the fact that Venezuela, who is the #2 outside oil supplier is living a great political oil crisis at the moment. The US import half their oil needs.
So, if indeed the US did not import much oil from Iraq in the past, doesn't mean that they won't start needing Iraq's oil real soon.
I'm not stating this as a fact, but as a definate possibility.

paxx
I think I have already stated possible reasons for this war:
But I can repeat them to you, I don't mind.

» We were attacked by terrorist, and cells and threats of them have been found world-wide...and gathered intelligence from the UK and the US points the acts of terrorism to BinLaden and that Hussein was involved. They have found Al-queida fighters there in IRaq and terrorist training camps and such while there, so, that supports the intelligence.

» One of the sole responsibilities of any government is to protect its own people. I can rationalize that for a war to happen, there must be a great future threat. This is more than just payback or unfinished business from Gulf War #1. To which to hear the Kuwaiti's tell the tale, it was horrible when Iraq invaded them.

» When you add those two things up, and then combine it with he has slaugherted, torturted, maimed, killed, performed genocidal acts of terror on his own people, past , present and likely future, I suppose it wasnt that hard for people in the know of exact details to decide what to do.

And that, paxx, is my honest feeling of what has gone on here.

In the grand scheme of things, NO ONE really knows what goes on in the bowels of government, in its deepest core, or what motivates any of them. I too, can remain skeptical in many ways on many things.

Giving the benefit of any doubt for now, those are my beliefs on why the US and the UK decided to wage this war. It wasn't very popular a decision, I do believe they care about the human lives of their own people and those of innocent Irakis to do SOMETHING.

cite away

Fun with Conspiracy Theories..... http://www.popmatters.com/features/021227-conspiracy.shtml ....I find #3 particularly funny.

wait, wait, wait... "People are paid NOT to work"????


werewolf steps up to the plate with resume in hand

i'm back...

Everything that everyone does is 'in their own interest', or they wouldn't do it. Being responsible is deciding whose interest the action is *counter* to. If you pretend that oil is the point, the world is still bettered by removing Saddam Hussein. Those opposed to the war leave him in place and make him wealthier and stronger militarily... oh, and they get the oil, too. Why talk about it? That part is over.

**

I really wonder if people know what the word 'economy' means.

Gang-related crime has little to do with the economy. If it isn't crack it is untaxed alcohol and cigarettes, guns, gambling, or prostitution. If you don't like it blame the idiots that buy their products. If anything, prosperity in crime mirrors legitimate prosperity... they don't don't barter for their crack, do they?

My wife works in a hospital, so I have a healthy amount of skepticism about the 'dying in the waiting room' thing. You can't lay inept management at the feet of the economy. For every horror-show waiting room there is one across town that does a great job. If a half-dozen grey-haired dinosaurs are getting paid $200,000 a year to 'make administrative decisions' and they can't afford enough attending staff, the economy is not to blame.

I pay about $500 a month for health insurance. My wife is abused constantly by wealthy people who refuse to pay a $10 co-pay for an office visit, or because a patient's insurance doesn't cover Rogain. Insurance covers Viagra, for God's sake, you are surprised it is expensive? I'll say it again, when a poor person can't afford insurance, part of the high cost is PAYING FOR WHITEBREAD AMERICA'S VIAGRA. Sick? Yes. A limp economy? Hardly. I know several people that can't afford health insurance but wouldn't be caught *dead* in a used car...

Is that a problem with the 'economy'? People think that acts-of-God, malpractice or car accidents are lotteries; slip at McDonald's? PAYDAY! The economy's fault? Nah, blame the legal system. You have a medical degree so you are entitled to a BMW... is that a government mandate? No, so why blame them for it?

**

When you see construction companies going out of business, and when you see car dealerships shutting down, and when you can get a decent parking place at Best Buy, then worry. If the average person has the money to keep places like that in business, then they most certainly aren't going hungry.

hehe Baker (when you can find a decent parking place at Best Buy?)

well I dunno but you said:
"When you see construction companies going out of business, and when you see car dealerships shutting down, and when you can get a decent parking place at Best Buy, then worry. If the average person has the money to keep places like that in business, then they most certainly aren't going hungry"
by bakerstreet - 4/13/2003 1:46:12 PM

not always the case Baker, did you happen to see the gorgeous palace Saddam lived in? can you imagine his car he was cruising around in cuz according to you if ppl are driving around in fancy expensive cars then all is well in paradise right? well ppl were aparently going hungry...

cosmetic things thrown all around never show what is lurking underneath things... but I don't care for these kinds of discussions so I will let you guys carry on.
I just wanted to say hello to you guys

I still think if ppl would be more compasionate and real for each other the rest all falls into place, after all the ppl that hold the high chairs they are merely "ppl"