DavidK: "There are many people including Senators, Judges, Foriegn Service Officers, FBI agents etc etc that are protesting both this war and the Bush administration's policies"

I don't know about the rest, but the Senate voted 99-0 in *favor* of the military action. So, if there are Senators now protesting, then they are hypocrites.

AS for protesting, I would think that is the *most* American thing that I person could do. I you really believe something, you should voice your opinion. It's not like the American people got to vote on this. If I felt strongly enough against the war, I would protest, too (I don't, but that is a different discussion). American is built on free speech. Peaceful protests are free speech. When they become violent, that is then illegal, not un-American.

Let me make something clear because at some point I was missunderstood yesterday ... I'm not in favor of Saddam -I too think
of him as a butcher from things I' ve heard- BUT I don't think war is the answer...

As an answer to the people that said Iraqis couldn't have overthrown Saddam...I come from a country -Greece- that for 7 years
was under junta- military dictatorship -(1967-1974). I wasn't even born then, but I know very well what it was like from my parents -for example: You couldn't walk in the streets with more than just another person for company, because a company of three and more people was considered suspicious -you could be conspiring a revolution- ... If you 'd like to check, we managed to overthrow that junta

Not only artists -ONE of the reasons american artists are arousing demonstrations, is because in past wars -and probably will be in this war too- there has been censorship to songs with anti-war messages- but students in Universities fought for a free Greece then! The leaders of the Greek junta were judged by NO other then the Greek people and recently we heard that the last of them died -being inprisoned for crimes against his country.

To da_zman20 that said that the reason many Iraqi children since 1991 are born with birth defects and die from cancer and leukemia are Saddam's mass distruction weapons and Saddam's weapons alone: As sig101 said I'm reffering to the use of depleted uranium in artillery shells used by the US in the Gulf War...and personally, to think that the american army will go down there with no biological weapons of their own is ...- to my point of view-...naive!

To Karmagirl that said I should debate my point of view with facts and not emotional images... these images are the true facts and results of war...
Oh... and where did I see and describe such images that I described yesterday??? If you haven't seen the videos that the organisation "Doctors without frontiers" have made from a tour in -after 1991- Iraqi hospitals, what can I assume...
CENSORSHIP????

Also many networks here are showing this war's victims from inside iraqi hospitals-including that little girl who was injured in her spine-

As I said at the beginning of this post, I'm not in favor of Saddam, but I'm not in favor of war too...

DON'T TRY TO SAVE A NATION FROM A BUTCHER BY BUTCHERING THEM YOURSELF!!!!

I hope you agree with me in some things...

Excuse me if I look a bit aggressive towards defenders of this current situation, but I think everyone knows the sideeffects in both sides (reminding the Gulf syndrome for many american soldiers -of those who made it back alive- )

KarmaGirl - where did you get 99-0? I thought there were 5 Senators who refused to go along at all and about 20 who voted in favor with statements of dissent attached. No matter, it's done. But don't forget that the original proposal put before Congress was a duplicate of Hitler's war powers act that would have given Mr Bush the right to declare war against any country, for any reason at any time without Congressional approval or debate. That was a terrifying moment in American politics that seemed to go unnoticed by most of the public. The Bill was amended repeatedly until it was "only" for Iraq much to the dismay of the White House. There were repeated efforts by the White House to subvert the checks and balances of the American system and give the president dictatorial powers. The Senate thankfully did not allow this to happen though their performance was pathetic in allowing only 48 hours for debate on the final Bill and their performance was also pathetic in passing the Patriot Act without even reading it or debating any of its contents.

ahh thanks sig... yes that must be it. I didn't know they'd done that.

I'm just working from memory, don't have time to go look stuff up (and I always forget how easy it is).

Rev. Moon... I have heard of him before.

It is funny that Bush seems to be associated with him in many ways.

Isn't politics funny? Those guys are powerful men (Mr. Moon) and the idea of him believing he is the second coming would not surprise me at all.


I hink the only reason Bush and other politition find themselves talking to them is for votes and to get agreement passed. They really say some stupid things that most officails distance themselves from. (9/11 is punishment because of Gay rights could be an example)


I call it the Archie Bunker Syndrome. Loveable as they are you know they make no sense for the most part.

I always figured Bush's association with the moonies was for campaign contributions. But now I wonder... Bush has some strange coincidences with his "friends".

Did you know that the Bin Laden family are long time business partners with the Bushes? That's how Osama was picked to be the CIA's recruiter for Islamic fundamentalists that could be trained in terrorism. Osama's father in fact was killed in a plane crash in Texas after a meeting with George Bush Sr. When he died his son Saleem took over as the head of the businesses (their financial empire is quite huge). Saleem Bin Laden is the one that gave George W Bush a gift of $25 million to start his first company (filtered through the Carlyle Group). Saleem (strangely coincidentally) died in a plane crash in Texas after a meeting with George Bush. Two such coincidences are a bit much. The guy that shot Reagan (Hinckley) was the son of a business partner of George Bush's - he was even at his house for dinner the night before (or day after, I can't remember). Barry Seal (self described as "the world's biggest drug dealer") was murdered gangland style (and then some) and the police that responded were baffled when they found George Bush Sr's "personal private" phone number in his wallet (Barry always bragged to his friends that he worked for the CIA and was indeed implicated in the Iran/Contra affair where it was learned that the CIA was the number one importer of cocaine into the US). Barry had bought a new plane shortly before he died, he was very proud of it because it was all tricked out. Oddly enough, that plane today (coincidently) belongs to none other than George W Bush.

My only point is, don't delude yourselves into thinking there is any concern for "the public interest" in what's going on in politics, or that our leaders are straight-up decent people. The Moon thing only started bugging me when he "acquired" Falwell and Robertson and North Korea started threatening nuclear war. Knowing some of the history of your leaders is essential to the democratic process. Knowing how they arrive at public policies is also a guaranteed right to the citizenry that's written into the Constitution. Another right that is being scrubbed by the Bush administration after the GAO dropped it's disclosure lawsuit against Dick Cheney, succumbing to pressure from the the White House. Freedom carries with it the necessity to be aware. Freedom can be stolen from us, even here in the US, by manipulation of world events and public sentiment. The Constitution has survived for over two hundred years but it has never been in greater danger than today. Recently some Republican (I'll try to find the link) said the Constitution is an archaic document that is irrelevant in modern times. That kind of thinking endangers not only the very existence of our constitutional democracy but endangers the entire world.

My trust in the media is likely in the negative numbers, but, I just read something on UPI of interest: http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030321-023627-5923r

Here is a quick excerpt:
"A group of American anti-war demonstrators who came to Iraq with Japanese human shield volunteers made it across the border today with 14 hours of uncensored video, all shot without Iraqi government minders present. Kenneth Joseph, a young American pastor with the Assyrian Church of the East, told UPI the trip "had shocked me back to reality." Some of the Iraqis he interviewed on camera "told me they would commit suicide if American bombing didn't start. They were willing to see their homes demolished to gain their freedom from Saddam's bloody tyranny. They convinced me that Saddam was a monster the likes of which the world had not seen since Stalin and Hitler. He and his sons are sick sadists. Their tales of slow torture and killing made me ill, such as people put in a huge shredder for plastic products, feet first so they could hear their screams as bodies got chewed up from foot to head." "

But then again walk through any of the Apalacian (spelling) mountains and speak to those who live off less than 4000.00 a year....

We have our own weak and starving to deal with, what in hell are we worried about those outside our borders before worrying about them first?

circles inside of circles....

looks good in print I guess

David
Respectfully, can you show me the money trail? I would considerately read anything you can show me on it. I would think oil alone would make him rich and powerful?

A deeper question might be, why isn't that enough? Looking at the television and seeing, not one, but many palaces, how come a person can't just make his money, and enjoy life?

I don't know, the logic escapes me... that's a question that one of them would have to answer...

I never understood why anyone would need a billion dollars. Right now, there are 300 people who's combined wealth is greater than the lower 3 and a half billion people on this planet. The top 1% of the of the pyramid have 90% percent of the money. I guess at that level you have different priorities, like how do I get the other 10% ?

The last thing the richest man in the world would want is to be the president. Rich people buy presidents, they don't be them...

kona who? who is dis guy kona? I never hoid of 'im.....

To funny. I love talking with you Jam.