I do not believe it is our place to overthrow any government. We are not the police nor the conscience of the world and we have no business acting as if we are.

But I also wholeheartedly believe this regime very much needs to be overthrown. That said, if it must be overthrown I want it to be us that does it. Imagine France or Russia or Germany branding that region with their own peculiar politics. Better our peculiarities than theirs.

I do not believe we should have gone to war, but I do not believe we should let Saddam remain in power one minute longer than necessary. The choice is a common one: the lesser of two evils.

Imperfect action is a better choice than the most perfect inaction.

I just got this little Poll off of msn.com.
------------------------------------------
IRAQ WAR POLL

Are war protests anti-American?

Yes
46%

No
34%

No, but they distract police
17%

I don't know
4%
-------------------------------------
I guess a bunch of other people think the way I do. It's un-american to protest.

kona - it would only be un-american to protest if we threw away the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and started spelling America with a 'k' instead of a 'c'.

There are many people including Senators, Judges, Foriegn Service Officers, FBI agents etc etc that are protesting both this war and the Bush administration's policies. As long as America remains true to the ideals of the founding fathers and the true American values that make this a great country, there will continue to be dissent. If there are no opposing opinions and no debate on public issues and government policies, we're all screwed.

taking the poll:

34% (no)
+17% (no, but they distract police)
_____
51%


Hollywood action movies? i thought it´s still a serious debate.

Yeah I agree. MSN does suck and so does Microsoft for that matter. Good advice Jafo, where would I be without you. I did read something local that caught my eye. It seems the war is here in the US not in Iraq. Here is a short read from the article:

-------------------------------------------------------------------

PORTLAND -- Police in Portland arrested about 135 protesters after a day of freewheeling anti-war demonstrations shut down several bridges, freeways and intersections. Late Thursday, police warned hundreds of protesters at the foot of the Burnside Bridge to leave the area.

Some left, but about 100 seated themselves on the rain-slicked road and linked arms in defiance. Soon after, police began picking up the seated demonstrators one-by-one, and putting them in police vans. Most of those arrested Thursday were charged with disorderly conduct or criminal mischief, Police spokesman Sgt. Brian Schmautz said.

Police used pepper spray to clear crowds near the bridge and threatened people on a nearby street with "impact weapons and chemical spray." Thousands participated in the day's demonstrations. Schmautz said one policeman received 10 stitches after being hit by a flying object during a confrontation with protesters at the Steel Bridge on the edge of downtown.

Elsewhere, protesters set an American flag on fire. Across the Willamette River, one protester smashed in three windows at McDonald's, while another sprayed graffiti on a sign at a Shell gas station. "I like the idea of shutting down commerce and the city to counteract Bush's economic motives for this war," said Eric Anholt, 19, of Portland.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Seems to me that Iraq is the lest of our worries. I hope Mr. Bush is watching and listening to them.

Kona, there was a poll a few years ago asking "Does the sun pass between the moon and the Earth in the winter?".

40% answered yes.


Because a lot of people believe something, it does not make it true.


Just lsiten to yourself. If you are not allowed to disagree with the governemnt, that makes the opposition party illegal. With no opposition party, you have a dictoatorship. That's what you want?

this cracks me up....

If you do not buy into the administration and keep your mouth shut your unAmerican...

WOW

I wonder how many germans ebnt to such a position when the brownshirts took power?

If you question or protest your not a true German, and you will be put down and denounced daily until you conform...

Or, Jim Jones says we must move south away from the Federal Government because they mean to destroy us and if you
refuse to come you are evil and aginst God, your family will be damned to burn in hell, shut up already and quit
your sniveling and drink that damn CoolAide already, seesh, some people...

Saddam says you will do as your told or we rape your daughters again and shoot your other dog..

We are the Borg, do not fear assimulation is painless and you will not remember afterwards so your thoughts and fears
are pointless...

Get in line at the back, what's in the boxes? I think toilet paper and over there it looks likes, YES bread!

Poncho Vila comes and steals my chickens, the goverment comes after Poncho and steals my chickens not the American army comes after Poncho and they too steal my chickens, all I want is for people to stop stealing my chickens...

Sorry kona, it is your right under the freedoms of being an American, rights that I served to protect and every single male in my family served to protect and many many other before, at the same time, do now and will in the future protect, your right to call me unamerican because I dissent, weird thing is, they and I protected my and others rights to do the same. That is until such time as they outlaw it, who knows maybe Ashcroft will get his Patriot Act II pushed through...

Then if anyone speaks side ways and he takes notice he can always label them something that will allow him to put them in prision or at worse remove thier citizenship, now thats American !!

We have a number of war time vet's in here and even though they might not care for those protesting I bet you would be hard pressed to find one of them that would make such a demand of others to see those who protest and dissent as being unAmerican.

I am not speaking of the cheap little butt munches who think that going after those who serv with verbal assults, spitting etc, those (people, term used loosly) need to either be in prision, or need a spontanious attitude adjustment on the spot.

I don't care who you are if someone spit on me for any reason I am going to break something, not beat them up, but put them in the hospital broken or end up broken or dead attempting it and they could put me in jail, at least it would be for a reason...

Sorry. Got your name wrong.

thre = their

Sometimes it can. But you have not understood what I was trying to say. Please just leave me alone and forget I exsist. I wasn't trying to anger or upset anyone. I was just trying to convey my opinions and feelings about the war and Iraq.

thank you.

Of course, our PM looks like a sniveling dweeb, whereas the Pres is merely a twit...

Ah....for a leader with charisma...[sigh]...