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US is going to war tomarrow... dang...

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IPlural
paxx
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #726 March 21, 2003 8:56:04 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I just heard on the news that Turkey announced officially that they were going to send troops and invade the North of Irak. The US is not pleased.

No kidding. Obviously Turkey wants to take control of the Kurd territory, so they can claim it and annex it to their Kurdish province after the War is finished and the Baas government in Irak overthrown.
Quite daring, dare I say. I thought it would happen but I thought they'd wait until the war is over and the Americans troops mostly gone.
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joetheblow
Join Date 12/2001
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Reply #727 March 21, 2003 9:06:33 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
hmmmm... I thought Turkey didn't want to be apart of it?

interesting development...

It would be 'funny' if Bush tells them to take a hike. Knowing Bush and diplomecy that is probably how he handle it.

I do wonder how he will handle this development. Will Iraq have the same borders as it had before the war started? What about the deal with the Kurds? North Iraq will be a mess.

joetheblow wonders if this answers some of his ignored questions...




World politics is very hard.
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Bangkokboy
Join Date 05/2002
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Reply #728 March 21, 2003 9:08:35 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
paxx - good theory, but you must admit that none of us really "knows" what the Turks intentions are. it is disturbing. with all of the friction that the Turks have had with resident Kurds, i'd almost find it easier to believe that they want to push their Kurdish citizenry down into northern Iraq. either way it is alarming as you said.
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IPlural
sig101
Join Date 04/2002
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Reply #729 March 21, 2003 9:11:13 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Paxx, although I haven't seen or heard of that yet in the news, I saw a cable talk show discussion of this liklihood a week or so ago. The host of the show thought that would happen and a Turkish journalist said that if Turkey did that, it would probably contend that they were "protecting" the northern oil fields and cities from being taken over and held by either of the competing Kurd factions. Just so things wouldn't get too outta hand, dontcha know. But so far I haven't seen anything in the news on that happening, but I haven't started hunting yet.

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joetheblow
Join Date 12/2001
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Reply #730 March 21, 2003 9:21:10 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
A few days after the towers fell, I wondered in my mind will the US change its policies toward '3rd World countries'

Terrorist and rouge regimes will aways be a problem one way or another. I was hoping that the US goverment wouldsee that if there is a nations under UN sanctions, serious human rights voilations (not culture differences like chopping of a hand for a crime), real laws and justice, freedom fro its populus, food, education and some sort of pride and wealth that it is a serious threat to national security and world sabability.

No more just saying a country is bad or the people suffer and nothing is done about it. I was hoping the US would see we need to spread the wealth. I was hoping that we would see that we can no longer see a state have people who suffer.


I want everyone to have the right to speak freely, eat, to be housed, work, have a system, they can work with, have education and the ability to persute a life.

Terrorist would not have support if the people have freedom, wealth, can resonabaly achive there goals and live happlely side by side, understanding differences and embracing them.

People's plight can no longer be ignored. If it continues it will only spark hatred and anger... and a scape goat will be made as an outlet.


No country is perfect. There are some that are beyond worst than this. There human population must be free or we are all doomed.
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bordfryr
Join Date 05/2002
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Reply #731 March 21, 2003 9:27:03 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Hey people,FYI: Turkish troops have ALREADY crossed the Iraqi border!
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joetheblow
Join Date 12/2001
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Reply #732 March 21, 2003 9:28:52 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
so many mis-spelled words.... and the grammer

I'm to sleepy for this. I got to take a nap. Maybe things will clear up in the morning.

This Turkey thing is bothering me allot for some reason...
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Bangkokboy
Join Date 05/2002
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Reply #733 March 21, 2003 9:29:06 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
"I want everyone to have the right to speak freely, eat, to be housed, work, have a system, they can work with, have education and the ability to persute a life." - jtb

all noble goals, but we'll have to start here in our own country i'm afraid. if my math's right we'll also have to find a way to drastically increase the worlds natural resources, or slow down the rate at which our world population is exploding.
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joetheblow
Join Date 12/2001
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Reply #734 March 21, 2003 9:37:01 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
We could start here.... while other places starve. Then wonder why so many resent and find scape goats to vent thier anger.


It has to be done everywhere.
Period.
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Xerraire
Join Date 12/2002
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Reply #735 March 21, 2003 9:37:21 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
~bakerstreet
I usually always stay out of these kinds of threads, usually no minds are turned nor persuasions changed, but I had to tell you that I sure enjoy your logic, and wit in how you explain yourself.

No one likes war... I didn't particularly like 3 airplanes falling from the sky in our backyard, either. Killing our precious citizens, injuring them, breaking up families, disrupting our whole way of life, businesses, economy, and turning regular people into watchdogs for our own communities.

Thank you for your way of expressing true reasoning.

~Xerraire

www.xerraire.com
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joetheblow
Join Date 12/2001
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Reply #736 March 21, 2003 9:46:30 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
intersting...
It is my opinion that the war would have happened no matter how many lines were drawn in the sand to give Saddam a chance. No matter my trust and lack of it in the current administration, I am not sure there is much of another option. Even the quesions I posed seem to get a very sad answer (or no answer at all)

anyway.... read this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/21/international/worldspecial/21CND-MILI.html

2 quotes out of the artical- One American and one Iraqi:


Marines lowered the Iraqi flag and raised the American flag over the seaport, Reuters reported. The American flag was then taken down, in line with orders that invading troops should avoid displaying flags in the fashion of an occupying or conquering army.

------------------------

At the same news conference today, another senior Iraqi official, Mahmoud Diab Ahmed, denied reports of an American-led advance into Iraq and said that television images of lines of Iraqis surrendering were fabricated. "Those are not Iraqi soldiers at all," he said. "Where did they bring them from?"


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Bangkokboy
Join Date 05/2002
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Reply #737 March 21, 2003 9:53:45 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
if the government's stats are right ( always a question), over 50% of all foodstuffs crossing international boundaries are being transferred from the US to some other country. What percentage was bought, and what percentage was donated they didn't say in the article. obviously they're not talking about cans of green beans, but largescale shipments of thousands of metric tons of wheat, rice, soybeans, etc.
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joetheblow
Join Date 12/2001
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Reply #738 March 21, 2003 9:54:55 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
this one too!!!

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/21/international/worldspecial/21CND-TOWN.html
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joetheblow
Join Date 12/2001
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Reply #739 March 21, 2003 9:57:45 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Fair and Balanced...

You decide.


I want to see a thread about Critical Thinking and how to emplement it. Maybe a thread on how to debate an issue.

joetheblow goes to bed.
g'night
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bakerstreet
Join Date 03/2001
+7
Reply #740 March 21, 2003 10:24:48 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Xerraire: thanks . I hate war, and had we finished this one 12 years ago it wouldn't be an issue. I hope this is the last string on which we debate Iraq, but sadly there are worse possibilites looming elsewhere in the world. I doubt it will be the last string of its kind.
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paxx
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #741 March 21, 2003 10:45:09 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
If things go as planned, N. Korea is next.

But anyway, back on topic. Only a small contingent of 1,500 Turkish crossed the border, but there are 10,000 more stationned on the Turkish side of the border.
US has urged them to not attack as they don't want to have a war within the war happening. In what situation would the US troops be, if cought in the middle of a Turkey/Kurd battle? Certainly one they don't want to be in.

Will Turkey listen to the US?
Well, chances are that once Hussein's government gone, the Kurds of the north of Irak will either declare their independance from Irak or seek to obtain power in the new Iraki government. Either of the two is bad news for Turkey.
Lets not forget that Turkey is not a nice country either. The Kurds of Turkey are victims of the Turkish governement, have no autonomy and absolutely no representation at the government. Further more thousands of Kurds were killed in Turkey over the last 2 to 3 decades. If the Iraki Kurds get more autonomy, the Turkish Kurds will certainly take the arms to seek their own autonomy as well.
Turkey needs to avoid this. A way for them to do that is to take control over the Iraki Kurds so they do NOT get that autonomy.

And of course, there is also that question of oil. North of Irak is very rich in oil.
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joetheblow
Join Date 12/2001
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Reply #742 March 21, 2003 10:51:45 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Speaking of Freedom fires...

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0314/p10s02-comv.html



I wonder if the people who thought of changing the name to Freedom Fires thought of the consciquinces of that... Freedom Fries?? give me a break.

ok, ok, now I'll go to bed.
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joetheblow
Join Date 12/2001
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Reply #743 March 21, 2003 10:55:45 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
fires = fries.
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IPlural
IPlural
Join Date 11/2001
+9
Reply #744 March 21, 2003 11:03:41 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
oh I dunno, they got nukes and one hell of a military machine, so I am thinking they are not on any list, well, not penned in anyway pencil and really lightly...

I'd probably look to Iran of down the the Philippines, soon or later push will be beyond shove and everyone will either come un glued, or everyone will roll over, anyone taking bets?


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IPlural
paxx
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #745 March 21, 2003 11:14:50 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Joe: Very cute! hehehe!

IP: Well, North Korea is in that axe of Evil... I say North Korea is next. After that, hum... I know Cuba bugs the hell out of the USA. Maybe a little pressure over there...
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IPlural
WOM
Join Date 01/2002
+253 moderator
Reply #746 March 21, 2003 11:21:39 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
The action against Iraq has started so how come this thread is still going on?

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IPlural
paxx
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #747 March 21, 2003 11:30:03 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Cause we don't want to open a new thread. This one does the job.
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IPlural
IPlural
Join Date 11/2001
+9
Reply #748 March 21, 2003 11:32:39 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
oh I dunno WOM...
wheels spinning?

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IPlural
WOM
Join Date 01/2002
+253 moderator
Reply #749 March 21, 2003 11:34:21 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I was waiting for that abortion thread Frogboy suggested.Oh well.

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IPlural
paxx
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #750 March 21, 2003 11:43:36 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Hey WOM, I've noticed that most pro abortion people are against death penalty, while most anti abortion people are in favour of the death penalty.
Isn't that funny?
I wonder where the pro war / anti war people stand in there...
I would tend to guess that most pro war people are probably pro death penalty. But I'm assuming, I don't know really.

(How's that WOM? Nice transition from one topic to the other?)
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