>If the USA went wackybobo with Nukes
>no one and I mean exactly that, non
>one could stop it...
>scary...
That's why i hate nukes, not only you have the power to do that (as i have written) but also you have a belicist president.
Think whatever u want.

yegods! there he goes with the "y word" again, and this time it wasn't Jafo doing it.

>Bleah.... Spain is just pissed cause
>we kicked their ass in 1898 and
>liberated their overseas held
>territories...

You realy dont think what you write, don't you???

If you have nothing inteligent to say, please don't bother.

Obviously nobody is intersted to live in a World in peace and with no war, and are not willing to make sacrifices to obtain it.
Go ahead just blow yourselves up. Just leave me out of it.

As many times as I have read this thread (and I quite enjoyed it; I think debates and understanding other poeple thoughts on a subject is always interesting and enlightenint) I have yet to here the asnwers to the fundemental quetsion. I have herd "one liners", statement that are true but pushed to be associated with why the US actions is bad, and so on.

I think we all can agree that:

a)

War is bad and no one wins; you just have one loser gets beat up more


Wanting to avoid war at all costs can empower the one you wish to contain

c)
The cost of war always takes lives of those in it.

d)
When it is agreed that war will happen, it is now BOTH parties fault for the deaths of those involved

With all this said and all the 'truths" that can be written on this (from war is for oil to fighting for freedom) it still comes back to this bottom line that eventually is where the choice to go to war or not is made; in this situation at least.


World politics is not easy. There are and will be interests other than what appears. I don't agree with Bush or with his tactics. Nevertheless, I have yet to here anything that says that Saddam has disarmed.

"Give him 30 more days." That's fine with me, but what happens when those 30 days are up? We know it happened before.

"America is only interested in oil".
Just oil? Not just from Iraq I hope because it is not worth it. We would spend more than the oil they have just fighting the war. I guess Iraq could become a launch pad for 'conquering' other oil rich places. The cost for doing so? More money than most of the oil in the region. Good investment? NO.


Why is the USA friends with China? They do the same thing as Iraq... Iraq has oil to fund its weapons production, China has a struggleing economy. The chinese soldier is more loyal. I doubt they would sell weapons to those who would later use them against themselves.


People, people ,poeple!!! It is not just about this country does the same thing or hey you have them too... it is about location, location, location, economy, additudes, stability, population comfort level (food, shelter, education, jobs)

When you include all of those factors who is more dangerous? Iraq or Argentina? Iran or Canada? North Korea or China? Serbia or Seria?


Is Saddam in breach of the agreement???

Does he have loads of money???

How loyal is his army???

Population comfort level???

How many resolutions for disarmerment????

How many years under said resolutions???????


Please, no one liners... "America wants oil!!!" "Bush is Evil!!!"

alo_cmr, if there is to be peace, how do we asnwer those questions?

paxx, yes, I would love it, and I would actually give my life for it, but I would not be willing to give someone else life by my not acting when needed. That I could not do...

As you said before, if someone were to come for you wife or child, that is different than them coming for you, same for me, thing is, they came after anyone and everyone. So people are not protecting themselves, they are protecting thier loved ones....

It's to twisted and dynamic to hash out in a message board really, but, until such time as people respond with a resounding "get bent" when told to go to war... we will have war

onc persosn at a time paxx, one person and it starts with you, me, karmagirl, frogboy, jafo, green_armani, Boxxi, everyone inthe world, etc... each of us come to things in our own time in our own way on our own path is all...

paxx - if it's any comfort, the people who've been posting here today don't control the world's armies. i'm trying to cheer you up.

people speak boldly and loudly on emotional issues when their subconscious knows that nothing is actually at stake, and they get strangely quiet, restrained, and humble if you put their finger on the Big Button.

I want peace too and I am willing to work very hard for it. I don't ever want to kill another human being even if that human being is attacking me with the intent to kill. I will do my best to thrawt that human being mission...

Even a guy like Saddam, i would try my best to not throw countries and regoins to war. While Saddam is OBVIOUSLY killing people, I can not condone more voilence to end him doing so. At that point I would be the one who would be killing those who I accedentally hit on my way to Saddam.




now said all of that, there is a point where I would take matters in my own hands and 'eliminate' the threat. I would calculate a way that HIS own actions will put himself in jeapordy of 'eliminating' the situation for me. He would be the one that would make the mistake that ends his threat toward me. I would indirectly cause his own downfall by the tactics that he uses to kill.


In self defence, I would do my best not to hurt anyone, even the enemy. Nevertheless, the threat WILL be "eliminated".

hmmmmmm.... sort of a Yin and Yang. A mixture of ideals.Survival Vs. Ideals. Being a slave and alive Vs. being Free in living Life.



paxx, I do believe that one day, our accumulated human knowledge will allow us to live peacefully.
WE are not at that point yet, but there are more people who can be peace minded today then yesterday... a "Good" sign, don't you think?

Green Armani...

Personal 'attacks' on fellow members of this site will not be tolerated.
It may be your 'opinion' that Paxx's pacifism stance is 'cowardly or wimpy' but it is also defammatory.

It is far less 'brave' to stand up amongst an army of leather-necks and spout war slogans than to be a lone civilian standing infront of a Communist tank in a city square.

Were paxx to censure you for personal attack it would be construed by many as 'petty', however I am a third-party observer [a 'Jafo', even] and was not impressed with the insult.

Yes it's a free world, but we have limits.

BTW...the 'truly' brave/heroic would publicly show contrition.

Like I stated earlier I was not trying to insult him and that was not my intention, why do I have to repeat myself again. If I cannot state my opinion on this board then whats the point of it. I shouldn't have to bite my tongue on every single thing. I already told paxx a few comments ago that I was not trying to insult him....and of story and get off my back about it already.

[the Aussie SAS]->Special Air Service
what does Aussie mean?

Green Armani...
I love the apology for the insult....very eloquent.

'not trying' or 'not my intention' not withstanding, you did and you have.

I bite my tongue every day. I suggest you learn to likewise.

alo_cmr....'Aussie' is just short for 'Australian'. [we tend to be lazy]...

"The way a man apologizes is the measure of the man." Joseph Lyons