UBoB

Join Date 06/2001

A formal complaint against WinCustomize.

The recent rating scandal surrounding my skin "BrassLine" prompted me to conduct a test. I noticed that the download totals seemed to sit a certain number (50) for a dispropotionate length of time. So, I therefore contacted 15 of my personal friends and asked them to visit WinCustomize and download the "BrassLine" skin at a predetermined time. 10 minutes after that predetermined time my friends had all sent emails indicating they had downloaded the skin. I went to WinCustomize to read my download totals. It still read 50.

I then conducted the test on one of my other skins, "Spander"
The result of that test was that the download total for spander rose by 15.

I am assuming this is a technical glitch, since I have repeatedly been told that this sort of thing would never be done on purpose by the good people at WinCustomize.

Please look into this technical problem.

Thank you.

Locked Post

Advanced Search

Watch this post

Do not email me updates for this post Email me updates for this post

Successfully updated karma reason!

Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1845

I'm not certain, but I believe the database record of downloads is refreshed less frequently than that.
Chances are that that one set of DLs coincided with a refresh.

Anyway...there is certainly no 'weird, wacko' things happening....no conspiracy theories, etc...

Successfully updated karma reason!

Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1845

Just checked, myself...it's reading '54' at the moment....maybe it is a glitch...

Successfully updated karma reason!

Hmmmmmm...Have these friends bought subscriptions Motion?

Successfully updated karma reason!

Sign Up or Login and this ad disappears!
There are many great features available to you once you register. Sign Up for a free account and browse the forums without ads.

Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1845

One thing to clarify. Admin's skins are not moderated so therefore are not 'automatically rated 10'. As with any person who has direct upload privilege, scripting automatically chucks a '6' on it...[which is why I'm hoping some of mine are still just a '6'....no-one hardly notices boring old grey].

Now, considering that 'accepted masters' of the craft such as treetog have their skins presented publicly at a rating of '6', then is a '5' or whatever yours had all that ghastly?

I didn't 'moderate' your WB skin...I don't do many WB skins....simply because I'm a LiteSTEP person who has never skinned an XP start menu. I leave them to those that 'know' WB more intimately....which is fair, n'est pas?

Seriously.....when MikeB's 'Colony' WB skin is currently about a '9'.....where exactly would you be putting yours?

Mine in comparison would be lucky to be a positive number....but then I've never really had a burning need to have big numbers.
If someone likes 'em...that's good enough for me...

Successfully updated karma reason!

I downgraded Mike's WB, if you want to know. It is not innovative enough to get a 10. I gave BorgX WB a 10. THAT was brilliant. In comparison with BorgX Colony is less. But the rating wasn't the point here was it? It was about download stats.

Successfully updated karma reason!

SlowNeasy - No offense to any of the skinners but I propose the downloads and rating system be abolished.

from what i understand, the rating system is unlikely to be removed.

one simple reason for this is that it is used as part of the efforts to control the ever growing bandwidth requirements of the site.

i think everyone would agree that the rating system isn't perfect. however, it has been pointed out that the more people who rate, the more "accurate" the numbers should be.

as for the download system, i really don't know there, but from what i know of this site i find it hard to believe any specific problems could possibly be deliberate acts.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1845

Just to clarify...'I don't do the moderations of' many WB skins....I do, however skin WB...just without the start menu bits because they do not show in LiteSTEP.
One of my LS themes includes a WB skin for that reason, rather than upping it as a stand-alone skin.

Were I to rate a WB skin, my practical experience with them would well qualify me to do so....more-so than a casual or even avid user, since I understand its entrails. Not only that, but I do it without SkinStudio...the old way....adaptation, modification, trial-error and editing in notepad...

Successfully updated karma reason!

T-Man

Join Date 03/2001

+76

Motion,

There is no conspiracy behind the download numbers. The download count will only be incremented the first time you download a skin. Subsequent downloads will not increment the download count. This is determined by a value set in your cookie.

So if your friends had already downloaded your skin then the number would not increase on their second and third attempts.

Successfully updated karma reason!

T-Man

Join Date 03/2001

+76

Oh, and the Rating System will not be removed. It is here to stay.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Jafo - n'est pas ==> n'est-ce pas

Successfully updated karma reason!

da_zman20

Join Date 08/2001

+51

I don't get it what's the big deal??? I download all the time based the screen shot of the skin, and what the authors say... a picture says a thousand words... Look at the screen shot for Lunar Base by treetog, perfect looking skin, works just as good as it looks... that's why I downloaded it... people don't download skins because they are rated... they download them because they look interesting to them...

Successfully updated karma reason!

quoted from a post I made on another string:

"Downloads are meaningless as well. People can't judge a piece until they have used it. I would rather have ten downloads that stayed on the desktop for a month than a million that went straight to the recycle bin. Sure, I want people to use what I offer, but I would be silly to think that a tenth of the people who download what I make ever actually do.

Anyone who thinks about their work, spends time on it, and is proud enough to upload it really isn't gonna be helped or harmed by an anonymous number. If you upload stuff in order to find out if something is good you are doing everyone a disservice. End-users who need numbers to decide if a piece is good enough to download have no meaningful opinion, so how much worse is it when the artists themselves need to see that number to decide if their own work is of quality? You made it, did you do a quality job?

To sum up, if you are plagued by doubt because of your ratings, then it probably *isn't* because of your ratings."

Successfully updated karma reason!

Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1845

Listen to baker...

Successfully updated karma reason!

I'm cool.

As far as the "cookie" thing T-man, I checked and they all say they delete their cookies using a program called WindowWasher, daily, which I guess would remove the cookie and the count.

I would never again suggest a conspiracy, I've learned a lesson a long time ago regarding that.

It really was just a strange inconsitancy in the total. I thought it should be updated faster. The control that I inserted in the test, using my other skin "Spander", updated to the new total almost immediately, and, in fact showed the new 15 downloads while the "BrassLine" skin still didn't.

It is a puzzle that I guess will not be solved.

All is fine then. No technical problems. That is good.

Thanks to all who responded, especially Jafo and T-Man for their behind the scenes information.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1845

motion...I think the cookie number count thingie is actually handled by the Site, and not the ones on your machines...so deleting them does not alter the original record of your having downloaded the skin already.
Is it possible that your 15 friends had already downloaded the first one but had not as yet dl'd the second?

That would solve the riddle, I think...

Successfully updated karma reason!

I like cheese.

and downloads numbers sometimes does brighten a skinners day (the like me they really like me!!!!!!)

At first you don't care, then you notice something..... am I being mistreated? How come that happens to him but this happens to me? What is that over there?

then it goes away; naaah it is just a coincidence.... then you think, you know you see it again!!

so I will admit, at first I didn't care, but now I like the "cheese" I get when I do something good. I don't count on it, but I still like cheese.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1845

Successfully updated karma reason!

Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1845

Now, THAT's class...a double post with one in the middle...I'm truly brilliant....

Successfully updated karma reason!

cheese = # of downloads
BTW

and what Jafo says is true from what I know. when I lost all of my files and redownloaded stuff, it did not increase the count on some of the skins. there were no cookies on my computer cause my computer was re-imaged.

Successfully updated karma reason!

MikeB314

Join Date 07/2001

+40

Well done, Jafo. You've been practicing haven't you?

Successfully updated karma reason!

That explains it.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1845

motion...I'm not certain that that is in fact the case, but I think it is. T-Man will let you know....

Successfully updated karma reason!

Since this seems to be the thread topic of choice today, I might as well through in my two cents. I think that the biggest problem with the rating system is that you have no idea who put the rating there, be it good or bad. If the data base can remember every skin that I have ever rated. How much of a leap would it be to code s show ratings link that would show who rated the skin and what each person rated that skin. It might, and only might cut down on the just plain mean ratings. I have no idea what this would require from T-Man and Alex and that it might not even be possible but it might be worth looking in to. One thing that was brought up is that a person should not be able to change a rating once they did it once. This I do not agree with since skins get upgraded and fixed and made better and a skin that I thought was only a 7 on Monday could end up being a 10 by Friday, and it would not be fair to the author to leave it lower than it should deserve. Just a thought that might help slow the war that seems to be catching fire once again.

Chris

Successfully updated karma reason!

After reading my post again and noticing all of the typo's that I missed, please don't rate my above post to harshly

Darn I must be tired since I even used ieSpell

Have a great night all.

Successfully updated karma reason!

paxx

Join Date 03/2001

Grog: I think that the biggest problem with the rating system is that you have no idea who put the rating there, ...

Very true. I personnaly would give a whole lot more value to ratings if I knew who they came from. For example, a 10 given by somebody that I know just gives 10's all around would not please me as much as 10 given by somebody that usually rates very severely. Also, I would value a lot more a rating from a talented artist such as treetog then a rating from somebody who can rate only cause he paid a subscription although he has no idea what skinning involves and how much work doing this or that is...

But anyway. Been there done that. It was also discussed in the past to make ratings not anonymous anymore. It didn't fly because it would cut down the number of ratings, which are already very low. Also people would be more intimidated to give low ratings.

There is no perfect solution. But I would still like to know who the ratings are from. In the rare time I rate, I usually leave my rating number in a comment as well, to let the author know how much I gave him for rating. And I appreciate when people do it on my things too.

Successfully updated karma reason!