So, continuing on that top lane discussion - here's one of my key thoughts (previous idea anyway):  take champs that provide something useful even if you are a pisser.  To me, that generally boiled down to liss (moreso back in her op days) and gnar.  There, you have champs that are VERY good at escaping ganks safely.  They have relatively safe/easy farm and very solid potential of picking up a kill with ganks.  Not only that, they have exceptional mid/late game utility even if they are having a so so... and even if they have bad game from time to time (bad not meaning I feed the crap out of my lane... bad meaning I got whooped and then played safe...).  Honestly, those 2 are the absolutely best imo at maintaining usefulness.  Weak split push, but solid and durable, and good at team fights.  Very good mobility

Anyway, with those champs, the general idea was do your bit in lane.  Look to roam if you get a nice setup to snowball.  Look to tp early mid to lock down kills in bot or mid if there is a good setup.  In my mind, a good top with those champs would win lane and quickly rotate to team fighting.  Major focus on trying to get into team fights though.

So, I guess my thoughts on those 2 are the same, but I find them weaker now in general.  Liss keeps all her pros as before, but is more squishy.  The gnar skill cap simply has gone up due to the nerfs.  He's still quite viable imo, but not a good pick for me currently without a lot of practice to adapt properly to the nerfs from some time back.  

So, now my focus is on carries out of top lane.  People talk about support carrying.  Fuck that.  I'm talking about the guy 1v5ing.  That fella running around like a jackass and the enemy team scatters.  Champs that dominate their lane and are beasts, or turn into avg players, or turn into crap and drag the team down with them.  Some downsides to this ofc.. also thinking about split pushes, etc.  more in a bit...

off to bed - will continue thoughts tomorrow...

short summary of that - very new, MUCH more strategic concept of top lane.  

I want to add that I don't think I'm particularly good top lane atm.  I'm not trying to get you folks "on my level" or w/e bs.  I'm looking to describe the evolution of my top lane game.  Before things were so much more simple.  Now, its more complicated with me currently understanding what I need to do, but slowly adapting.   I think as I apply what I've learned, I'll actually become a pretty decent power house top lane as opposed to a safe pick top that is useful even if trash.  

oh and patch going out 6/24.  

bleh - i'll comment then bugger off.  I don't give a fug about semantics - don't waste time if you actually get what I'm saying plz.  Gnar lost some of the power he had before, and the window is more limited requiring more skillful play to use it properly.  I call that requiring a higher skill cap.  You can call it what you like.  That's my take.  

tl;dr - semantics = akljhjsdajklsdhaskldjasljdakdsajldklasjladkasjldjk - who cares.  let me know if you understand what I'm saying then discuss if you are interested.  thx!  I'm much more interested discussing this stuff than arguing about alkjsdklasjdaslkdajskdjl

I'm not really the highest skill cap player but sometimes I manage to make a high skill cap play when I'm playing a high skill cap champ by skill capping a low health opponent that's getting away.

It's really confusing when people edit posts /: 

Thunder had a VERY different original post + you changed from "Gnar's maintains the same power level" to "lost some of the power he had before". Your edit makes my post ... useless since we are agreeing with each other.

i want to say one of the reasons that there's not a lot to discuss with your first two post is that they are sort of... tautologies. You should:

  1. Win your lane

  2. Win all the teamfights

While that's a great way to actaully... win the game. It's not exactly any new revelations

More interesting stuff would be like:

1.

TP/Ignite vs. TP/Smite. Pros/Cons. LCS like Smite because it allows stronger objective control, and Skirmishers Sabre really isn't THAT amazing unless you're Irelia/Volibear/Warwick. Plus Smite is better in 2v1 lanes.

But i think Ignite is WAY better than Smite for most soloQ. But, maybe there's really efficient jungling routines where you can farm crab/gromp/golems really effectively. Maybe Smite is better if you're a tanky melee (Nasus) against a pokey ranked (Gnar) if you're on Blue side because the Gromp buff is soooo good against autoattacking opponents.

2.

Are there more champs that could run TP/Ignite or TP/Smite? Shyvana, Fizz, Hecarim are all pretty "obvious" but i really think that there's more than just those 

3.

What's the merits in double the "push fast, double sword" strategy, similar to Morgana mid. Morgana mid will often push VERY hard the first few levels, forcing her lane opponent to spend a much of mana counter-pushing. Meanwhile, she'll base at level 3 or 4, get a 2nd Dorans ring, then completely wreck the opponents. i've seen an Enemy Riven who did a similar strategy (with 2x Long Swords).

4.

Dragon vs. Top Tower?

Just last night i was in a very strong position against a Renek (who went Hydra + Flash/Ignite). i was roughly 10 CS ahead. i did a teleport botlane, picked up 1 kill + saved 1 life + got dragon. And i didn't have to lane against a high-damage Renek who had Ignite up. Renekton was able to get top tower and FOURTY CS. From there, he was able to roam. What were the pros/cons of the strategy? 40 CS is too much to give up, since i went from dominating the lane to being unable to lane. But maybe, i saved botlane from not being able to lane and completely ballsnowing. 

Was part of his roams only successful due to my team not being diligent (eg, his first roam was successful even though he walked over wards and i pinged him the whole way down to midlane).

5.

How will the upcoming tower changes modify splitpushing? It'll be much easier to dive inhibitor towers. Does that make teamfight tops even BETTER since they'll be able to close games out faster? Or does it make champs like Trynd/Jax better since splitpushing is a much more serious threat when they get ahead?

6.

What's some good toplane + jungler or toplane + midlane combos. There's the obvious stuff like ye old Gnarven, Liss/Kennen/Rumble top with an AD mid, or Submarine Shen with an AP assassin midlane. Is there anything particularly interesting that fits our groups playstyle?

--

My point is that these sort of questions are going to foster a lot more discussion since they aren't basic "Top Lane 101" stuff. You're just approaching it from a macro-perspective where the top laner should basically be a 2nd tank-support, instead of the micro-perspective of playing Riven/Trynd/Jax/Irelia/Darius and destroying everyone.

--

Continuing Gnar discussion, i do have to say that he ballsnows really hard. Mini Gnar is VERY squishy if you are behind since he's got very high base CDs until he gains levels + builds CDR. And a confident toplaner with that is ahead and has natural sustain (Irelia) can just intentionally eat your boomerangs to deny you CS.

The primary reason for his mediocre/weak win rate is not because he was overnerfed, but just that, due to team miscoordination (going in 5 seconds before MegaGnar form is ready, not being able to teleport at certain times because he's basically teemo), he'll lose 2-3% win rate compared to "always up" bruisers or tanks. Another reason why Gnarven was so good

oh and I'm totally cool w/ w/e direction we end up going re: top lane discussion - including what you are calling 101 stuff. I've played a ton of league but believe me I don't have everything down when it comes to the solo lanes - actually learning quite a bit.  

Sorry, thought it was late enough that no one read my original post.  I'm not in the habit of erasing or changing what I put down if someones already seen it... or especially if someone's commented on it.  Or even more so if someone has quoted me.

What I originally said was something like:

Quoted Pacov saying he gives zero fugs about semantics.  I said he should if he's going to use this blog to share what he's learned about this game and use it as a forum to discuss game mechanics.  Then I said something about us having an interesting discussion before that got derailed because I wasn't sure whether his definitions were different from mine on certain terms.

S

My point was not that what you're saying is wrong...and you pointed out that part of your relevation is, well, you don't play a lot of solo lanes But i massively prefer to play Solo lanes.

i guess you sort of have "goals", right, and WHAT those goals are is very simple (CS well, win lane, win teamfights, maintain and deny vision control, control objectives). HOW you do things is the hard part. And you can't actually do it all. Killing scuttle crab means you're giving up CS. Upgrading Yellow means you won't have Red. TP'ing bot can win botlane but cost you toplane.

Since trading and proper lane posture (passive vs. aggressive) going to talk about trading:

With regards to trading there's FOUR necessary steps to winning EVERY TRADE EVER ON EVERY CHAMPION:

1. Get from a point of safety to a point where you can attack.
2. Do your damage.
3. Somehow avoid their damage.
4. Get out to safety.

(i would say step 0 here is "make sure the jungler isn't waiting for you in tribush and kills you the moment you go in").

Step #1 is very simple in melee vs melee matchups toplane. But very complicated in mage vs mage matchups midlane. And even more complicated in mage vs ranged champion. If Fizz's QWER and Ignite are all off of cooldown you "probably" shouldn't autoattack him as a squishy mage.

Rule #1 also changes rapidly. While a champion is locked in on an autoattack for a cannon minion, your safety range gets VERY LARGE for about 1/4th of a second. Similarly, if Blitz misses pull, your safety range is HUGE for the next 10 seconds. If your lane opponent uses their maxed skill on creeps while being in range of you, you have 2-3 seconds where you can pretty much auto-win every trade.

Most champions can either do #2 really well OR do #3 really well. Some do both "okay". Renekton with a full rage bar is SUPER GOOD at all four steps. He can:

1. E into ranged champs

2. WQ, auto (also you heal a little in case they autod you)

3. they are stunned and can't punish you

4. E away

Against melees he can just WQ and save his E for any retaliation.

Step #4 is an important part for cooldown-limited champions, but not that useful botlane where autoattacks rule.

oh my guuudd

Time your block against an incoming shot instead of just dropping it for cover, don't burn your mobility playing with cs against a skill shot caster, and don't ult the guy under his tower, after you already dropped your wall.

Never played Yasuo, but when I spank them with Zyra, it's because they do such things.  Another thing to avoid is going all in on something you can't kill.  After you burn off your mobility and skill shot blocker, you're kinda fair game.

oh and I don't think I ever mentioned this, but I tend to make posts when I'm playing without replying to comments - i skim the comments and then read em all later in detail and reply.  Just saying that I'm reading em all and dont be put off by my rando posts here and there.  thx!

Ah fun! I have been video card shopping since I have the same cards from Demigod Even if everything else is much newer. 

Was certainly thinking of a 2k or 4k monitor... any tips, etc?