Gawd....50 meters....and there was I at 600 yards...

Baker...the problem is that the guns are already 'got'....so it's too late.
And I am right, and you know it....

There will always be some poor misguided fool who believes it is a God-given right to own and use a gun, and they will always pipe up with some piddling argument about deterents, etc.

Why ever did anyone worry about the Cold War Arms Race in the 50's, 60's and 70's when US society has an Arms Race of its own?....'you got an assault rifle?, I better get a bazooka, then'...

I am convinced this guy is a trained professional. My guess goes to maybe some paramilitary wacko. Cold-blooded shot. Directly to the head. Never missed. Always only once. Sorry, but a human head is no chestnut. A parking lot is not an open field. Extreme calm and concentration is needed dispite the fact that anybody can see you, despite the fact that the police could show up any time. Dispite the fact that the target is moving, unlike the chestnut. I know I can shoot an apple from 50 yards no problem, But a human head in the middle of a busy parking lot? I'd probably miss 3 times out of 3.

Jafo, you know I love you , but I think your dead wrong on the whole gun issue. And, this is one opinion that I have that nobody will ever change, so don't even try.

I truly believe that the person that is doing this is not some Joe Schmo that took his legally bought hunting gun out of his basement and just decided one day to start picking people off. He is trained. He may have been an ex-cop or was trained in a military or has spent many hours of target practice at a range. The gun that he is using is probably modified, and may not even have been legally obtained.

This would not happen if Americans did not have the right to have guns? How can you take away guns? I know how to make a gun. I also know how to make knives and hatchets. I know how to shoot a compound bow and arrow, shot many types of guns (including muzzle loaders), and I know how to throw knives and hatchets with great accuracy. I grew up with hunters as grandfathers, uncles and father. My Grandparents belonged to muzzler loader associations, and my father is a card carrying NRA member. (Put one of those stickers on your window- it's better than any alarm system you can buy!)

I have never used a weapon to injure or kill anything. I know their power and I respect them. Rifles have their place. They are necessary for our hunting seasons for population control of animals. I would never kill an animal (heck, I don't even like to eat that much meat.....and I never eat anything that is still attached to the bone) but I understand why hunting is a necessary evil. I respect it. I know that you don't point a gun at something unless you want to kill it.

Guns are not the problem. *People* are the problem. Certain people do not value human life. So what if guns were illegal? You can't get rid of violence. People would make bombs or set fires. They will run over people with their cars. If somebody is going to kill people, they will do it. It has nothing to do with the gun.

How many people die a year during *elective* surgery? (Should we ban it? If it's elective, it's not needed.) How many people die because of car accidents? (should we not be allowed to drive?) How many people die of alcohol related problems? (guess there should be no more drinking) How many people die because of smoking? (that should go, too!) All these things are legal, and each one individually cause more deaths per year in the US than guns do.

This guy is a nut. It has nothing to do with gun control. It has to do with mankind.

Don't want to get into a gun control argument, but it will always amaze me how guns are considered just an every day product in the USA.
Grocery list:
- Bread
- Milk
- New gun

It even more amazes me how the subject of gun control is as sensitive as religion. It kills people for crying out loud. Anyway, this is a dead topic, the same way a religious debate is.
I'm just amazed, that's all. And it's the reason why I would never ever ever live in the USA. My wife is American, and when we decied to get married, the question of where to live was very quick to make. America may be richer, but Canada is safe.

Paxx, Canada probably is safer, but I don't think that guns are the only factor. One large factor that people don't look at in the US is where these crimes take place. They happen in places that are over populated and usually have a massive gap between the rich and poor. Any time that you push too many people together, you will see crime (this is why Japan has such extremely strict laws on weapons). It goes back to human nature, and possibly the environmental factors of being so populated in a certain area. (For example: I never knew what "road rage" was until I moved away from my small hometown). There was also no crime in my small home town. I know of two people who took their lives with shotguns, and one brother who shot the other in the leg due to him stealing his dog. That was all in the 21 years that I lived there.

Here is a good link:
http://www.guncontrol.ca/Content/Cda-US.htm

One thing to keep in mind, this is there to promote guns laws in Canada, and I am sure the statistics are used in a way to show that point of view (as we all know that statistics can be molded into what you are trying to prove). Yes, the US has a much higher rate of gun violence. We also have a much greater rate of violence in general (twice that of Canada). What else is missing from this is: how are the rest of the crimes committed in Canada? It doesn't say.

I would like to see some real data per country throughout the world on crimes committed. Not just by guns, but all crime and compare them. It would also be nice to see the other factors involved, such as population, race of the community (I know we would rather ignore that one, but...), education of the people involved, how the person who committed the crime was raised (single parent, foster care, happy home..) I think you get the point. There are so many factors involved in crime. It's easy to point the finger at the gun, but we should really be looking at why these people commit the crimes- all crimes.

And, you are right Paxx, it is a debate that will never end. It's just like all politics, religion, abortion laws, etc. There will never be one "right" opinion.

btw - with such a good description of the vehicle out now, my guess is that *if* they try again it will be from a new vehicle. I say *if* because there is always that slight chance that they will stop... Like the Zodiac.

Ah forget it.
Ignore the above post. I don't want to argument.

It is certainly a debate that will never end. I did not mean for the thread to go there, but frankly, it's good to hear everyones side. I'm just happy to see that we have gone over 24 hours without another attack from this (these) idiot(s). My heart goes out to the victims and their families.

May God Bless them!

It's quite possible that the people who were identifying the gun have no idea what different guns look like. I also wonder how much of the "facts" are reported. Hopefully, the police know more than what we are hearing about.

with=wish

My AR-15 was very accurate, and as long as I used the forward assist it never jammed. I'm not sure if the Colt varied in quality from the Armalite or the other clones. It seems like a idiotic choice for this purpose, though.

I still find it hard to believe that he is not using something closed-breach and suppressable; I had just assumed that it was the supersonic 'crack' that people were hearing. Amazing how little people hear in an urban area. Then again, a single shot just makes you duck anyway, and he seems a bit too sneaky to make a second for people to home-in on.

As long as no one is hurt, it would be better for all concerned if he 'resists arrest'. I don't think I could handle a courtTv monstrosity, or another vacation trip to camp X-Ray.

Guns are a weapon of convenience, you don't even have to get bloody and up-close.
Weapons of remote or mass killing are the issue, not knives or baseball bats, NRA fanatics will always come up with those as arguments. Such tripe....let's ban paper, just in case someone decides to slash people to pieces with paper-cuts....

Simply imagine a world with NO guns and you'll have a world with no shootings, then ask yourself what is the LEGITIMATE motive for owning them.

The interesting side of this indiscriminate sniper is that he could just as easily kill an NRA gun-toting thug and guess what? The toting of that gun won't save you at all.

Excluding Boing 737's, what are the 'weapons of choice' of the mass murderer?
According to the pro-NRA, that would be knives and bats.....yeah, right...

Jafo: My Father is a lifetime member of the NRA. He doesn't 'carry guns' to Home Depot, it is illegal, but even if he did it wouldn't help him if someone wanted to kill him. Nor would telling the sniper that he can't have a gun. Where there's insanity there's a way.

The most beloved figures in my life have been members of the NRA, men that taught me to hunt, to respect life, and men that I couldn't hold a candle to. When I hear them called 'thugs' it doesn't make me angry, it makes me sad. I feel sorry for those who would hatefully antagonize and villify good people who do, and wish, no harm. No NRA members I know horde ammunition or have bunkers. The liberal view of the average NRA member is no different than the sterotypical view bigots have of minorities; just as needless, and just as productive.

I know you feel strongly about it Jafo, and I don't hold it against you, but you are throwing out a lot of babies with very little, propaganda-soiled bathwater.


****My last gun-control comment****

Here are the top 15 causes of death for the year 2000:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005110.html

Please note that 'Homicide' isn't only gun deaths, and that there are probably some gun deaths in the accident section. I couldn't find the total firearms deaths for 2000, but in 1999 it was 21,143.

It would be much more valid to say that America has a car-accident (41,804) problem, or an Alzheimer's disease (49,044 deaths)problem. That is twice the number of deaths due to a disease that many haven't heard of and most people can't spell.

The question isn't whether guns kill people, but whether the absence of guns would make any difference. I am unconvinced of that fact. You would simply divert the cost of illegally purchased weapons to the illegal activities that are the true cause of our 'gun problem'.