I find it's still easy to tell them apart....the one that makes sense is our Jafo and the one that sounds like a blithering idiot isn't. See....simple

either that or the one that spells better maybe...

To JAFO or not JAFO2 thas not the question

and he doesn't even "sound" like him right David? hehe

hehe that's for sures

The other guy certainly had a way with words...

well I read that thread on neowin too, seems there is a long feud going along. What a pity. And yes, I sometimes do think people in here jump on people who are critical towards stardock/WC..Now the question is: is this criticism an attempt to make something better? And are the people who are in charge willing to look at it without bias? Answering with throwing slime at each other is destructive and negative.
I have come across in that other thread that leads to the same guy that stirs things up, and there people just read it because of having a smile and a big laugh when Admin's or the people that feel belong to a group just make negative fun...Again, I think it's not very proper to do so.
Also, on a personal note: I felt treated with negative intent when I just asked to explain the guidelines of submissions of wallpapers. It has been never explained properly. All I got was a huge amount of negativity. So, the fact that some people don't feel welcome, although they love stardock's products is a familiar feeling.

I can understand why the WC admins (particularly Jafo!) would be so annoyed by the whining complaints of 'Jafo2'. He is like so many people who think that an Internet connection gives him the right to take whatever he wants for free.

But the aggressive tone of his posts here and elsewhere has overshadowed what I think is quite a valid point relating to the presence of copyrighted/trademarked/fan-based material on this site. Please don't think I'm supporting him (I think he's a jerk too!) - maybe I'm just playing Devil's advocate .

I realise that there is more chance of a hamster becoming Pope than there is of a Buffy or Spiderman wallpaper appearing on these pages, and rightly so. I also realise that attempted rips of other artists' work (like the sad git earlier today who thought he could rip one of adni18's skins and nobody would notice) will enjoy a stay here that can be measured in minutes, again rightly so.

But how can you say there is *no* fan-based material here, when a few moments browsing will turn up WB skins based on movies like The Matrix and Das Boot? How can you say you allow *no* use of trademarked material, when there is an Xbox WB skin (not the WMP one, which I know was commissioned by Microsoft) at number 1 in the top downloads list? How can you say you permit *no* copyright infringement, when there are literally dozens of Windows XP and Mac OS X based skins available here (even though you say you are 'lenient concerning corporate logos and OS ports')?

I can see how you could argue that skins like these are in the 'inspired by...' or 'a homage to...' category, and not simple copyright/trademark rips, but then surely, as 'Jafo2' points out, that makes them fan-based material, and ineligible for inclusion on that basis?

Personally, I have no interest at all in these 'looky-likey' skins ('if I wanted my computer to look like OS X I would buy a Mac, etc, etc') and I would be quite happy to see them all disappear. But I know a lot of people like them, so I am happy to just skip over them in preference to the more interesting, inspiring and original work which abounds on this site.

Also (unlike 'Jafo2') I am so impressed with the standard of Stardock's products and the art on WinCustomize, that I am prepared to put my money where my mouth is.

Like I said, I am really just playing Devil's advocate, by reiterating the point (hopefully in more measured terms than 'Jafo2') that, if you are really really honest about it, there is at least some evidence of 'dual standards' in the moderation of the works that appear here. Please take this in the spirit of constructive criticism in which it is intended .

People just blow my mind. They want everything for free. they obviously have no idea how much it costs for bandwidth for a site like this. Plus, do they ever consider the people who actually work here? How would they like it if the company that they worked for spent all kinds of money on something like this and couldn't prove it's worth. Yes, the site keeps the community together, but, Stardock had libraries of our skins prior to starting WC. And, it didn't nearly cost as much. WC is a great site, and to keep it great, people have to contribute. Either contribute my skinning, or buy a Stardock software product, or subscribe to WC (which also comes with SkinBrowser). Does it really cost that much?

Ogre66 suspects the coffee pot is empty and KarmaGirl was getting impatient

I think there is a difference between an "inspired by" fan skin/wallpaper/whatever and a direct usage of copyrighted material used in the skin/wallpaper/etc. In my interpretation/opinion, an "inspired by" skin would be ok if it doesn't use copyrighted material in it. If it does use copyrighted material without permission, then it would not be allowed to be posted.
Ogre66 goes back to coding and waits for the artists to post more excellent work

And also, I have seen some submissions with a copyright sign in the popups when you point your cursor on someones work. While, I, as a user (if my memory is correct) can't submit my own copyrighted work... Please correct me if I am wrong there. From what I have understood, submitted work is kind of "umbrella copyrighted" by stardock, and they have the right to use your work for promotional purposes. I have no idea what happens if for instance, my work is used by another without my permission on another site. Jafo has dealt successfully, I believe with rips from the elite skinners here, but what about normal users who, every now and then, like to share their work at wincustomize....
When it comes to questions such as Mr Benn has asked it would be interesting to know what the vieuws are admin/monitor wise. Or was Faramirs comment the answer? You can see I am totally confused about this whole item.
AngelEyez: hatred attracts hatred...If people are there just for the throwing stones and pop some gubnshots in the air, it can only spread more negativity, don't you think?

OK...as Koasati mentioned, things CAN get a bit 'grey' in the world of Copyrights, Trade-Dress, etc...but my personal, specific issue with the use of the term 'Fan-art' in claims of works posted here being 'fan-art' [30 odd % of it, supposedly], is that 'Fan-art' is a Britney Spears photograph filter-puked into submission and called a wallpaper. THAT stuff, with or without the 'puking' is non-existent on Wincustomize. IF there are any works using Photographs taken by another person/artist and used and uploaded here without permission and credit they will be promptly dealt-with, as was that skin ripped from Adni18.
To date, I am yet to trip over another site on this planet, containing walls and with a better record of Copyright policing than here.

Now, as to OS 'ports' and OS-related skins, this is the 'grey' bit, but generally, 'fair-use' covers most and in particular, a WB skin relating to The Matrix, for example is created [inspired by] independently from the Movie's graphics....certainly not a screen-capture turned into a wallpaper.

The problem with all this new-found angst about copyrighted works supposedly hosted here is the erroneous belief that the 100meg limit somehow means that Wincusto, and therefore Stardock is 'profiting' from works of 'dubious copyright origin', and thus must be smote with the plague.
Wrong.
Currently, every one of you/us out there who have purchased something [anything] from Stardock have provided them with the financial resources to pay for this site and its Band-width.
Guess where a lot of this band-width is going?
Into the hard-drives of people who have not paid for anything at all, or even contributed to the site and its community in any way at all.
I'll be damned if I'm going to be treated as a charity...

Let's get specific for a moment.
Ignoring my 'position', skinning, MB interaction, help, etc....
I pay Stardock for 'stuff'...
Stardock can now afford to pay the Wincustomize bills...
I download 'stuff' from the site....[56k modem]...slow....
Why slow?
Because another person is also downloading.
Has he paid or even contributed? No...
What does he do?
He complains he's to be 'restricted' to 100meg and gets uptight.

Analysis?
I am paying for the privilege of having someone else selfishly freeload, not interact, prolong my own DL times, but ultimately I'm also paying to have him complain, insult, and spread a wealth of mis-information far and wide.
If he spent a bit more time just being a community member he wouldn't have struck this 'limit' anyway, but no, it's far more intelligent to claim copyright issues with payments, etc.....it's too nonsensical to even bother with...

The Final Analysis.....

This site is only as good as it is thanks to the people who provide Stardock with the finances to pay for it, and the people [mostly the SAME people] who provide the content.....and finally, the people who give it 'life' by interaction with the site.
If you fit into one of those, take a bow, if not, think again, because the 100meg line is out there somewhere....

would be the JAFO2 also Italian as the original one?