At DeviantART.com....I had a bit to say about Artist's Copyright, rips, and photo-manipulations....
I stuck 'em all together...cos it makes a weird sort of sense when isolated from all the other contributors' posts...
Time again for me to hop in and make faint bleating noises about copyright and its protection, etc.
Firstly, noir...I for one am well aware of the content of your post earlier...'fair-use', etc., so what five and I came up with is worded in such a way as not to infringe on 'fair use', but at the same time acknowledge the rules, that's 'RULES' imposed upon us ALL here at DeviantART.com...the 'Submission etiquette', or restrictions on what you are 'allowed' to upload here.
As tack has stated, Devart is big, has squillions of Deviations, and their legitimacy is the responsibility of the person submitting to the site.
What this 'new process of commenting' is all about is gently notifying all those that can be located who 'may' have been unaware that they 'may' have transgressed the rules of upload.
This is NOT a witch-hunt. It is a re-education program that could just improve each and every artists' self-worth here.
The admins [and founding members] of DeviantART coined the rules of conduct by which we are all obliged to abide, but it is clearly evident that a number of people have slipped through the net of moral consciousness to our general detriment.
Hopefully we [all] can turn this round...
Just to finish....a photo uploaded to the net is 'digital', eg, a JPG....if you DL it, it's still a JPG...manipulate it in Photoshop with filters, etc, - whatever, and it 'can' still be a JPG....upload it as your own and someone else will DL it....yes, you guessed it...as a JPG.
It has not 'really' changed all that much at all.
Now...in contrast.
DL a photo as a JPG....draw it...even COPY it in pencil on paper...and it is a DRAWING, not a photo.
Scan it and upload it as a JPG...and yes, it too is a JPG.
The difference is that it is NOT a JPG of a photo, but a JPG of a drawing.
You see, when the medium of the Internet/uploads/downloads comes into play, 'fair use' and 'reasonable change' can take on a different 'interpretation'.
Were someone to use just the buttons, say, of Treetog's Sputnik WinAMP skin, and put them into their LiteSTEP theme, no-one would argue that it was NOT ripping [or theft of artist's copyright]. Why? Because 'most' people know his work and can recognise it and agree it is not fair or 'right' that someone else can make use of his artwork..."rip, rip, rip," they say.
Why is it any different if it is an 'unknown source', or 'uncredited source', even?
What makes a photographer's art 'fair-game', but your own 'not'?
Since it is the responsibility of each and every Deviant to police the legality of his/her uploads, and since, [it seems], some prefer to ignore 'their' responsibility, then it falls upon the shoulders of the rest of this community to 'police' itself.
No lynch-mob, just Education....
I need to add that I'm a two-fingered typist....and my fingers are sore of late...if it's not copyright thingies here, it's Emailing another site which has ripped both Treetog and Dangeruss [and others]...using their graphics without permission...[again].
This is a never-ending battle, which, if not met, will definitely be lost forever.
I'll be buggered if I'm gonna do it alone.
Get of your bums and do something pro-active for your community and stop sitting on your thumbs and twiddling them in angst...
itirep..
This is not, and I repeat NOT a witch-hunt.
This is the community 'suggesting' to its members to actually ABIDE BY THE RULES OF UPLOAD HERE AT DEVIANTART.COM
The admins considered this of sufficient importance to include it as conditions of submission.
Unfortunately, they left the onus of responsibility of compliance on the shoulders of those doing the uploading, and some of these people have broken the rules of upload.
You are required to own the rights to the works you submit.
Some submissions have uncredited and unapproved graphics and/or photographs included.
It is the distinct responsibility of the 'Deviant' to show/declare/prove/indicate that they are the lawful owners of copyright for submitted works.
Some very definitely are not.
Their 'works' should NEVER have been uploaded here.
This whole situation is manageable IF these very same people were EDUCATED and explained to in words of one syllable that "RIPS IS BAD...GET THEM OFF HERE" [I think that's all one syllable].
This is not the thought-police...it's called 'rules of conduct'.
On a different note....if it appeases the hysterical, perhaps 'private' notes could be adopted...
itirep..I have noted you, too...it 'should' make life a little clearer...
However, to all and sundry, you have a choice with what to do with your apathy and indignation, you can either 'have a go' at five, a 14 year old who, like many of you is both young AND concerned about Copyright issues, or, you can have a go at me....47, and thick-skinned, but I'm not quite ready for false teeth yet.
What is wanted...what is NEEDED is for each and every one of you to take a long hard look at your submissions and in a clear distinct voice, honestly state that no other artist or photographer's work was used by you and is now being reproduced by you via this web-site WITHOUT their consent.
Don't argue about it.
Learn to read.
Educate yourself.
Understand Copyrights...just like you understand Photoshop, or Verse...it is a part of Art and its use.
Be responsible.
Do the right thing.
I am not your mother...I should not have to hold your hand....learn to be genuinely responsible for your action and/or inaction.
Read the damn rules of Conduct.
Discover that your upload and the rules of conduct are mutually exclusive.
The rules WILL NOT change, ergo, your uploads MUST.
It is time this community stopped piss-farting around the issue and took a long hard look at itself.
And to all the dick-head detractors of the 'get over it' 'who gives a shit' ilk....gestation curtailed?...it seems your brain hadn't formed yet...
systemaddikt...
Is it OK if I start with you?
Why 'should' we be targetting the 'big names' as you call them?
Why should we be discriminatory?
Why shouldn't we simple be targetting those who have violated policy irrespective of who or what they are?
If you wish to be confrontational, perhaps YOU could discriminate and target the 'Big guys'...
I don't mind.
Perhaps just start with Senior members...that way you'll be first in at the kill of the likes of myself, or itirep, or weze, or dygel, or flummox, or noir....to name those on this thread without a tilde...if it will make you feel 'empowered'.
You see, the idea is to 'discriminate', if you will, against those who have not abided by the rules of upload, whether by malicious intent, or pure ignorance.
To be really pedantic, the site owner/s are responsible for the conduct of the administration, and the administration is responsible for instituting a policy controlling conduct and content, and the individual members are responsible for having the bona fides to upload 'their own work' to the site.
Now, when the site becomes huge, AND various groups have erroneously uploaded work contravening the stated rules......we do exactly what?
Sit here with a stupid grin on our collective face, or do 'something' to make amends?
systemaddikt...
I'm happy to see that your determination is that we are not handling this correctly. This indicates that you therefore know the correct way to handle this.
OK....
DO IT.
There are Do-ers and there are whingers in this world.
Stop being the latter and become the former.
It won't die out....unless apathetic tossers with hidden agendas get their way.
EVERYONE except the guilty 'knows' that this is a problem issue that must be addressed.
Everyone 'seems' to be looking on high for direction, for leadership from on high.
"Oooh, I can't possibly think for myself...what do the admins say?"
Look around you.
Were this to be strictly against the directive of this site....IF the Admins had serious reservations, would this thread and our endeavours be allowed to continue?
Were this to be a 'two man crusade' as some suggest, that flew in the face of site policy, wouldn't two clicks of the 'Account Delete' key cure it?
Is this just a challenge to see exactly how many ways I can express the same argument?
Am I getting sick of explaining simple ideas to morons?
OK, the last question is easy...
Nor do I want to be.
I'd rather sit idly by and watch clever thoughtful considerate people going about their daily lives here not plagiarising, misrepresenting, erroneously uploading, or violating other artists' copyrights.
Ah, utopia.....where IS that?...
sadwings, I think you'll find that the admins are relatively content to rely on people abiding by the rules of upload, and for the community members themselves to help maintain decorum and general compliance with these rules.
It's not a matter of inferring a response through silence, but knowing they are aware of our activity and have chosen not to interfere.
It is not 'carte blanche' to go whip some arses ['asses' for you Yanks], but for a studied, responsible approach to deal with an issue that affects each and every one of us to 'some' degree....
iamall...
That would be fine, except since the rules of upload pertain to each and every submission and are already being ignored quite often, so will any other auto-bot message as well...
To anyone listening/reading....many moons ago a thing called Napster was created. From day one, even before Metallica got involved, I was against the concept of its ability to violate the Musician's copyright.
People cried and stamped their feet saying it was just hurting the greedy publishers, but like it or not, those greedy publishers were passing on a pittance to the musicians and that was being denied to them by the use of Napster [and others].
I VERY MUCH am NOT a hypocrite when it comes to artist's copyright.....sorry to disappoint you.
I have never used Napster....nor even installed it...likewise with Mozilla [I think that's what it's called].
I DO have MP3's on my comp....taken from my own CD collection...[fair-use...provided I do not distribute them].
Systemaddikt....
Sorry, but you're shooting blanks re my use of another's wall in a screenshot....[covered under fair-use]. Also, you should find that I will have various popups open or proggy windows or something to help 'obscure' the wall and deny its 're-use' directly from the screen.
Any walls included in my LiteSTEP themes are either wholly mine, or are included with express permission and credit of the Original Author...
Here is a typical example...included in my LiteSTEP theme 'TrekFace'...
[edited to conceal Karsten's personal addy [privacy issue]]
Kudos to Karsten for giving his consent for me to use his wall to create
this theme. His work is inspiring. [It inspired this]...
Here is the extract of approval via notes on DeviantArt...
**************************************** *******************************
hi sorry i dint replay at ones, i was away for test days on the swedish
design school "hyper island"..
any way i think its cool thay you like this trekface and make skin of it..
so go ahead and realse it, just make sure no commersial use of it and
tell that im behind the trekface grapich. make sure you have
www.wiklundsdesign.com include in the credit
ceep on skinning..
>Date: 2 Jul 2001 06:39:29 -0000
> "Anton Wiklund" Deviant Art Note:
Re: Trekface "the-Jafo"
Reply-To: "Please Reply On The Website"
>
>the-Jafo has sent you a Deviant Art Note!
>
>Subject: Re: Trekface
>Date: 07/02/01 at 00:39:29
>
>Anton...
>I'm getting requests to upload my LiteSTEP theme derived from your wall.
>Would that be OK with you?
>
>As you can see, it 'needs' your wall to work properly, and I have created
the popup graphics and the shortcut graphics by modifying parts of your
wall...cutting and pasting, etc. The only thing I'd need to include is
your original wall in its original 800x600 size as a jpg.....and would of
course include full credit to you and your work and inspiration for the
theme, with URLs and whatever you would require.
>
>If you don't want me to release this, that is fine. I won't, if that is
the case.
>
>This is in no way intended as a 'rip' of your work, but as a functioning
LiteSTEP shell created around your work.
>It happens often in the LiteSTEP community, but is the first that I have
been
involved in, apart from the Community Skin projects and the DeviantSkin
project,
in all three, I did the LiteSTEP themes for those, using the provided
graphics
[with modifications to suit].
>Normally, all my LiteSTEP themes are my own design and all my own
graphics.
>
>As I said, if you say no, I will understand.
>Cheers,
>Paul Martin
>JAFO
>ICQ 59227163
>martinp@smart.net.au
>
>
>----------
>karsten said the following:
>
>the-jafo..
>i saw the screen shot of the litestep it lookt good exept the resizing.
>Its good that you ask before you start editing or using outers grapichs,
and i think its ok that you make a theme of the tekface.
>Its also good thath you write that the orginal is from me..
>(im glaad you like it)
>
>ceep on themeing
>
>KARSTEN
>
>www.*****
>
>----------
>the-jafo said the following:
>
>Anton....
>I love the colour, style and detail in this....
>And being into LiteSTEP [4 years now]...I've been creating
some popup graphics and shortcuts, etc in the style of your
work, to complement it.
>So far, the popup is done....mostly cut and paste of bits
of your wall...eventually I will have a full LiteSTEP theme to suit.
>
>Being your graphics essentially....I won't upload or release
it, but I put a screenshot of things in progress that you
might be interested in,,,,just click on my name..
>
>This all came about because I was setting up my theme coding
to have multiple choice popup graphics and I wanted a more
mechanical look than my usual ones.
>
>I'm having fun adapting your graphics to LiteSTEP.
>
>You have a great style, too...
>
>Cheers,
>Paul.
>JAFO
>
>
KARSTEN
Anton Wiklund
web: www.******
email: karsten@*****
[end of extract]
See....'some' of us out there actually CARE about the rights of others, and respect them.
Terribly sorry that I'm not the target you thought I was, but c'est la vie...
I thought you might have had a go at the nude 'manipulation'...after all, that came from a photograph....trouble is...in between the source and the outcome was one or two other 'steps', such as actually drawing the nude in conte pencil, photographing the drawing, then manipulating THAT...in other words it was a 'photomanip' of a photo taken by me of a drawing I drew....
Now, there are a few themes for LiteSTEP that I have uploaded here that have graphics that are NOT 'all mine', but you'll have to look at the 'implied and expressed' permissions pertaining to 'Community Skin' projects, and the 'Deviant Skin' project as well....where specific permissions were granted for others to create skins/themes to go into one big 'suite'.
Apart from all that, I'm not going to bother to explain each and everyone of the 100 plus 'Deviations' I have up here.
I kept an eye on what I uploaded...what say you all just go check your own house?....
swatguy....
I assume that the pride you felt in being worthy of being ripped would still remain were your work cut and pasted into a pornographic image.
I assume also that were your exact work to be uploaded as a back-drop to kiddie-porn-r-us.com that would be equally good...warm, fuzzy feeling and all?
When you lose control of something that 'may' be recognised as you, or yours, you just might find yourself being associated with something you'd rather NOT be.
If you want to feel proud, wait until someone has the common decency to contact you and ask for permission first.
"Wow, I'm honoured....the burglar chose MY HOUSE over all those others...ain't that just grand?!"...
lol, tom...and I lurve you too...
fuzi0n....nobody flamed me, nobody loves me...think I'll go and eat worms...
I like chick-walls [some]...
OK, very few...
Well...one or two...
They are just an easy example, but ALL areas of submissions can have transgressions of policy...
stapler...
This error actually proves my point, not weakens it....I 'meant' 'Morpheus', but since I do NOT use it, I forgot its name.
Talk about credibility...it just shows I'm no hypocrite when it comes to piracy of music copyright via file-sharing if I can't even remember the name of the proggy.
Fear not, however, ...what I DO 'need' credibility for, I have 'researched'...
elgatodiablo...
try... wakeupandsmelltherosesyoutwit.com
That might do it...
Crae...make sure my statue has a hat on...so pidgeons don't crap on my head...
OK...how did that 'd' get in there?....so I've been up for 18 hours....
stapler....
Go find a friend you 'know' and get him to explain Copyright Law to you.
Frankly, I do not care what you do or do not think.
If you are beyond reason to the point of assinine argument such as a 'typo' of Mozilla instead of Morpheous being a whole basis of credibility then God help you.
Go to the Copyright Law links posted on the News thread I wrote....read them if you must question my 'understanding' of them.
Educate yourself, because I'm not going to waste my breath.
exorist....
No-one is 'too young' to be concerned about what is right and what is wrong....
Some of you could just 'Listen to Bakerstreet'....[clear, decisive argument]...
elgatodiablo...
Try Ireallyamasillypersontryingtohittheselin ks.org ...
exorist...
I have the power to remove the rips from 'other' sites, and have done so with alacrity and responsibly.
I dougt, however, that the powers-that-be would necessarily endorse the concept of having the same admin on two of the biggest skin/art sites on the net.....conflict of interest, etc.
The official 'endorsement' of 'our' actions is inherently covered in the 'Rules of etiquette'. The need for this 're-education' [must keep using that word], or reminding of people about those 'rules' arose because, as anyone will tell you/can see, people, for whatever reason have been ignoring the 'rules'.
I must admit, it 'would' be nice if the Admins would re-affirm their displeasure in the flouting of these rules, but their policy of 'hands-off [as much as possible]', and their preference for community self-regulation has led to these actions and discussions within this community.
My personal concern is that 'perhaps' the 'rules of etiquette' regarding ownership of copyright for submitted works does NOT protect and insulate DeviantART.com and its owners and operators [admins] from litigation, due to the clear failure to 'police' validity of authorship.
Example....
If a council posts a sign on a cliff "Danger...cliff...do not approach"...is that clear acknowledgement of the potential for injury a declaration of the danger, and therefore making them responsible for the public's safety, particularly.....children who cannot read, as well as other nationalities with no English comprehension?
The only realistic 'protection' for the council's liability would be a non-trafficable fence or barrier, then the 'Danger' sign would be redundant....age or language comprehension would not matter....
Maybe in a moment of manic weakness jark will give me the capability to delete the 'rips'....but I'll have to don some body armour first....I'd cop a load of flak from the bruised egos...
etype2...
The price of your laziness is that you ask questions already answered.
I don't use Morpheus...in fact, I forget its name to my eternal damnation.
I do videotape TV proggies...[allowed in the terms of fair-use, provided I do not publicly re-broadcast it]
I suggest you take up reading the forums....at least you 'may' then have an 'informed' opinion, coloured or not...
five...
netguru is 'all-seeing', beware, he is 'dangerous'....
etype...
That 'big picture' must have been on a different channel...
"When folks post pictures of their favorite actor/actress,rock star,autos or whatever,I don't see any harm in that.
They are saying to the community,"hey,I like this,I hope you do to""
Wrong.
What they are saying is "hey this isn't mine...I have no legal right to reproduce it here, AND it defies the rules of upload, but I like it, and fuck you if you don't like me breaking rules"....
theCat...
It is not a witch hunt...it is a pro-active heads-up discussion of what IS a legal issue with some of the works submitted here.
Even people who feel they MUST emulate the style of another could simply just seek and obtain approval first.
It really isn't hard.
'Witch Hunt' is an inflamatory, emotive term with no basis in reality.
As for 'self-appointing', perhaps EVERYONE should 'self-appoint' and nip this whole thing in the bud....if everyone contributed to help reduce the incidence of copyright violation on this site the problem would be no more...
etype...
Some people know me and refer to me here at Devart as 'Jafo', but as nicks go, that one was taken very early on here, hence 'the-Jafo' [I know...not very creative].
There's no need to attempt to be clever at ~jafo's expense...he doesn't even have anything submitted here.
Just for you, because you don't seem to want to read all of this thread...when a 'fan' uploads a picture made by someone else and says 'wow, look at this', he/she has actually disseminated the image publicly without the author's permission....a copyright violation.
Mindset, or not, it is a statement of reality....Identical to getting thousands of people into an auditorium, and putting your CD you bought onto a player, amplifying the crap out of it and playing it to the crowd. Believe it or not, that too is 'public broadcast' and not included in the rights of 'private use'. As with MTV or your favourite radio station, they are required to pay royalties...and that has exactly nothing to do with profit-making or broadcasting for money.
There...I've brought you up to date....
The two sides to this discussion are...
1. The fan uploads a manipulated photo of Britney Spears, thinking he has done no wrong.
2. The fan has uploaded a manipulated photo of Britney Spears that was taken by a photographer who owns its copyright, and has placed it on a site, this site, against the policy of this site, and in direct contravention of the photographer's copyright.
These Fans, understandably, would like to think that option one is the reality.
It is not.
Option two IS the reality.
Innocence of the understanding of the rules does not make you innocent of the crime....[just unaware you have committed one]...
