I agree w/ you gorman...
WinStyles is a perfect app for skinners such as Treetog, Alex and Dangeruss and any others that design their very own "Full" skin suites and "Then" create "their own themes using WinStyles" as a main package created solely by the artist.

but as far as someone else coming along and throwing in Jane Doe's and John Doe's skin in a package deal for download this will swallow up the "Best Part" of Skinning!
(plus how many creators will actually take the time to properly notify the original artist of the skin before creating the theme right?)

Oh, boy... It'd been a while since someone tried to pin the downfall of Western civilization on Stardock.

Anyhoo...

"By simply creating a pack of skins for download, each individual author loses nearly all credit for their work, and they'll lose a good portion of the comments and feedback they might receive due to their skin simply being packaged with 10 others. Their skin is simply part of a group now, and all individuality of it is lost. The user sees the work, uses it, but it all ends here. Thus, WinStyles is a virtual vending machine for skins. This is a big, big problem."

It's not a problem at all. Skin authors still need to give their permission for their work to be included in a theme.

"This program hurts everyone, including you. It hurts the artists by eliminating individual feedback from the people who download their work,"

This is a pretty big assumption on your part. If I download a disparate theme made up of skins that "sort of" go together, it's perfectly possible I'll look up the name of the artist, and send him/her feedback if I so choose.

Also, you seem to believe every person who downloads skins the old fashioned way automatically will leave feedback for the author. I only do this when I REALLY like a skin. I make it a point to congratulate the artist, and leave my opinion. Other than that, as callous as it sounds, sometimes I don't even remember who's done what skin.

" and as a result stunting their growth as an artist. Many artists are greatly dependent on comments to improve their work, and this is a key point of most skin sites; without these comments, the community will come to a basic stand still."

Again, pretty big leap you're taking there. Aside from assuming feedback is guaranteed when a person downloads a skin as an individual entity, you're also assuming NO ONE will provide feedback for skins that are part of a theme.

"It also hurts the artist by removing the majority of recognition. By looking for skins individually you see the person's name, can easily view their profile and see other skins they have uploaded, and get a much more personal feel of things."

Not everyone does this, believe me.

"Granted the author has to give permission for their work to be in a WinStyles suite, it still does not resolve any of the above issues."

Think a little more realistically and you'll see your "issues" are more akin to "paranoia."

Don't like the idea of your work being part of a suite? Don't authorize their use. Simple as that. Let others do as they will.

"It hurts the skin sites (such as WinCustomize and DeskMod) by reducing the overall interaction, not to mention the page views."

Oh, brother.

"Comments will go down, downloads will drop on everything besides the WinStyle suites,"

Now you're assuming all community members will flock to the themes sections...

"and the whole point of the site will slowly crumble. "

You've been reading "The Fifth Horseman" too much.

"Although something of this catastrophic level is not likely, this program certainly enables the possibility. The whole sense of community greatly deteriorates, and that really will hurt the sites."

Let me ask you something: Do wallpaper and icon artists suffer because Non-XP users can download Plus! Themes that include icons, walls, and webview items? Didn't think so.

"In addition to all of that, you are also hurt. No longer are you able to easily view other work by the artists because you do not go directly to the page with their upload. You do not have the opportunity to make contact with the artists, leave your opinions, or further contribute to the community."

I've called you on your wild assumptions so many times I'm starting to get bored.

"This really hurts the overall experience of going to a skin site, and being part of the community. Those reading this certainly know that."

Don't ASSUME you know what I think about the issue. Everyone has their own idea of what ther community is. Don't impose your own on the rest of us.

"Last, but definitely not least, this hurts application developers. All of a sudden, their program loses its identity. No longer do you have to change the skin through the application itself, now you simply use a Stardock program to change it all. Imagine how many people will think to themselves "I made my desktop look pretty with WinStyles", this removes lots of appreciation for the individual applications."

If they use the application, they appreciate it, and know it's not WinStyles that provides its skinning ability.

"This is very similar to the appreciation for the artist that I talked about previously. Although this is probably one of the smaller implications of this type of a program, it is certainly not one to ignore.

Overall, I can understand why Stardock would think this is a good idea, but I personally feel the negatives outweigh the positives. It makes things easy, but it causes many problems while doing so. Granted this is a great way for Stardock to increase awareness of their brand, in return it does the exact opposite for applications that it skins. If this program really gets big, it will ultimately ruin the community."

No, it won't. Convergence didn't ruin it, Desktop Architect didn't ruin it. WinStyles won't ruin it.

What's to stop someone from including other works, without ever asking for permission?

The exact same thing that stop people from doing it right now. US. Every time some one includes a wall with a Windowblinds skin that they didn't create or ask permission to use they get jumped on by everyone and a moderator yanks the skin. Same thing happens with DesktopX, LiteStep, NextStart, etc. anytime somebody uses anyone else's work without giving proper credit they get slammed.

chichigirl46: I never said they were facts, just my personal opinion. I'm not angry at all, I'm just putting forth various scenarios about how I feel this program could negatively affect things.

Firestorm: Good post, although you took some of the things I said the wrong way. I'm not assuming you'll agree that this will ruin everything, I meant that I assume you'll agree that commenting and interacting is the base of the community.

Overall, my post was taking a bit too seriously I think I'm simply trying to bring up points about the application so that hopefully SD can try and resolve some of them somehow. It was more a post to get people thinking rather than to flame SD or just rant in general. I don't think it came off how I intended, and I'm sorry for that.

I thinks we will have to wait and see what happens.

Something does irritate me about this program downloading skins from sites other than wincustomize, but I suppose Brad and the gang have done all the talking to make this ok.

"For the record, I use WinStyles to package themes I like, so I can switch between looks more easily in my own computer. I have no intention of distributing suites containing others' work. This, I think, is one of the big reasons SD had for creating it."

Ok, but whos gonna stop the persons that will do this ? There is more then just websites to get skins from...IRC, ICQ, Newsgroups, etc.

Thats something that goes on allready I think, and might increase with ready to install packages. I rather see a zipped theme by one author then the possibility to get a package of some of this, and some of that, so the user has no idea from who the skins come from.

my 2 euro cents

I get the distinct impression people haven't used WinStyles and are commenting based on fear rather than actual use.

I don't know what to think of this...
I understand that it's cool to be able to have suites with skins, but I am still hesitating. I like to know when/if people include my stuff in a suite. Even if my skins isn't REALLY physically in the suite file.
And the comment bit also bothers me. I strive for comments (call me insecure if you will, hehehe!). Maybe you should add the email address of the original skinner a compulsery field, so that when people apply a suite they can with one click send an email to the skin authors?
Dunno. Just random thoughts.

I agree, paxx. I'd also like to know when people are including my stuff in a suite. I'd prefer they not include anything without asking first. Another one of the issues I have is that they might be including links to old or outdated versions of themes when newer ones are available elsewhere.

(to be properly open-sourced, a non-app dev would have to be maintainer, I think - gorman, jark, or someone they could agree on recommending, would be a good place to start).

fair enough - I'll take that as a "we like control", IE, no. nice community support, eloquent response to this supporting app devs

shoggot says:
"fair enough - I'll take that as a "we like control", IE, no. nice community support, eloquent response to this supporting app devs"

Pot to kettle. Pot to kettle.

For a guy who just got done calling people "evil".....