Always funny how people are always so willing to spend the money of others. You whine about having to "empty your wallet" (only if your wallet is extremely thin), but you have no problem expecting them to empty their wallets with free, unlimited bandwidth. The selfishness of some people is amazing.

Chill... Do not judge 'till the system is in place.

I'm trying to find the post that even implies that people would have to pay just to start using the site.

Every post *I* have written has talked about the need to limit those who are downloading a LOT of stuff, not the casual user. The problem with bandwidth isn't the guy who visits and donwloads a half dozen skins on occasion. The problem is the guy with the cable modem with the downloading queing that is downloading 25+ megs in a session.

But I have to agree with Tarkus, I find it kind of ironic how some people are pretty free with other people's money.

From the news post:
We will be implementing a 5 megabyte per month limit on those who aren't in the database to help decrease bandwidth use.

This needs to be defined a bit better. First off, by database, do you mean registered users on this site, or those who have purchased things from Stardock/WinCusto? Secondly, what if a user wants unlimited (or increased) download ability, but doesn't want to purchase something from Stardock/WinCusto, then what? Can they pay a monthly or yearly fee for access just to this site? Finally, I've seen lots of talk about how WinCusto isn't paying its own bills. On one hand, it seems every large skin site has this problem, but on the other hand I see a bit of "number" confusion. The confusion is this: does Stardock factor in the ODN, WindowBlinds, and all other Stardock product sales made due to this site? Surely many people find out about Stardock & its products due to this site; I see no reason why those sales shouldn't be worked into the monthly revenue from this site. If you look at it this way, I would assume this site is in fact profitable.

I agree something needs to be done to conserve on bandwidth, I just think it is just very important to keep the community fully informed as to what is going on.

Keep up the good work,
gorman

1) Most companies don't have the resources to have their own skin site. However, I would assume that Hoverdesk & such do make a good # of sales due to people coming to their site from here. I would assume the ODN sales from this site produce a good bit of revenue.

2) Yep, I know that.

3) Only 5%? Are you referring to users who download more then 5mb per month & haven't purchased something from Stardock/WinCusto? I find it hard to believe its that low of a percent.

4) Makes sense.

5) Okay, but this site isn't suppose to be a marketing mechanism. This is suppose to be a community site, isn't it? In that case, if a member of the community wants to come here & download Winamp skins and wallpapers, what are they going to do when they can only get 5mb worth of skins per month? Maybe they aren't interested or can't afford any Stardock products. Sure, you aren't making any money off of them anyway ... but this is a community site, right? I can fully understand download caps for those who aren't in the DB for Stardock related categories - not having something like this is almost like promoting pirating of your own programs. I'm just not clear on the other categories nor the "community" aspect of this site as a whole.

What I'm most interested in, and I realize this is confidential information, is how many sales were made due to this site.

Finally, in a news post a few days back, I read something about how WinCustomize was seperate from Stardock & how Stardock gave WinCusto grants each month. Well, WinCusto is certainly part of Stardock - there are many, many links to this site on stardock.com; to me its just Stardock's skin site. Thus, this site is a business expense that seems very worthwhile to me. If you look at it that way, I don't see why any company would deny the site the resources it needs to satisfy its own customers (those who have purchased ODN, etc & are looking for skins).

-gorman

Brad mentioned in another thread that the problem is mainly people who come here with their cable modem and then proceed to download 50 plus megs of stuff in a sitting.

So the system that is gonna be put in place will initially target that. I think the 5 megs per month limit is more of a worst case scenario.

I really don't think this site has much impact either way on Stardock's app sales. If they weren't downloading the skins from here, they'd just get them at customize or los or da.

The way the site was launched is that Stardock gave it a grant to of X per month. In June, after Deskmod went down, the traffic here went way beyond what X per month could handle. So Stardock shared some of its own bandwidth Y. So now WC uses X+Y per month. By this Winter, the site needs to either get back to using X or find a way to pay for X+Y. Selling CDs and shirts and the like aren't even coming close to it. So the current thinking is to get the site back to using just X bandwidth per month.

So if you want to get to X you either have the site be very slow for all users or have the site remain fast but have fewer downloads. One way to limit downloads would be to target those people who are using more than their fair share of bandwidth and haven't contributed to the site. Seems fair to me.

hey Snowman - it's still free... don't leave...

Snowman,

How do you expect WC to offer what it does not have! It has given what it can, but there is nothing left. Bandwidth is expensive and not limitless, so a small minority will have to be limited so the vast majority of this "community site" can still enjoy it. Life is full of limits, hope you'll reconsider...

Gorman,

Brad (FrogBoy) has stated that the site is certainly *not* profitable in and of itself.

I'm sure if the XP revolution is accompanied by a huge increase in sales for Stardock (which is entirely possible), the grant of bandwidth to WC will rise in accordance. But the traffic that is being curtailed is for people coming to the site to take and take with nothing to give back. That traffic will likely soon rise as well.

To keep the site from slowing to a crawl, something has to be done. This plan seems to be workable and make sense. Do you have a better idea?

i definely do agree to some limits. those one hit wonders could just be like 5% but uses up to 80% of bandwidth.

btw site seems much more snappier now.

Brad stated on the news comments that the "database" means anyone who has paid.

-gorman

Last thought before I go to bed. Again, I'm bringing up every point I can so that when the system launches it can be as perfect as possible.

As paxx said, WC is basically charging for content. This is fine, however, we have to look at who created the content. The users. This is why I never thought charging for downloads on a skin site would work; mainly because it isn't fair to the users. Unless the users who upload get some sort of a cut, they are kind of getting screwed over. Even worse, imagine this: a user uploads a Winamp skin, then they go to try & download their own skin & find they can't because they've already downloaded 5MB. That would turn nasty. I'm sure you've thought of this, and I know you think this is the best idea, but I'm really starting to think it is not.

-gorman

There are alternatives.
Limit daily download for everyone, not in Megs, but in number. Something like a limit of 5 skins per day.
Heck, why not even take advantage of the status system implemented here? 5 skins per class level. For example:
Guest: no go. Rgister to download.
Citizens: 5 skins per day
Apprentice: 10 skins per day
Journeymen: 15 skins er day
etc.

Just an idea, and it doesn't involve payment, it involves participation and contribution, which is fair.
My 2 cents.