Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

Blog: Dying frogs, fanboy wars, and more..

Been playing with an internal build of DesktopX 2.21 over the weekend. It fixes some bugs that we had been running into in our quest to create higher quality widgets and themes. It probably won't affect the end user experience but for those people making widgets and themes, the changes will make their lives easier.

I know I seem obsessed with the whole widget thing lately. That's mainly because I am obsessed with the whole widget thing lately. I don't know what it is, but I just love the idea of being able to create really neat visual things on my desktop that are of my own creation that don't involve hours and hours of work.

Take fancy icon labels for example. I created a DesktopX object that has really fancy text labels under it. It's very flexible and you just right click and clone them and change the image as often as you want and can create a whole desktop of very nice big "super icons" with text labels. Check out the article on that here. I did this in about 5 minutes though. Only 30 or so lines of VB Script and now people can have icons on their desktop with nice icon labels under them.

On the down side, fanboy wars are starting to brew. This is a real bummer because well, it usually means we get beat up a lot. One can trace the whole "WindowBlinds SUX!" stuff back to when msstyles first started coming out. It wasn't enough for some of those users to go with their choice. No, they had to go out and trash WindowBlinds. It's simmered down quite a bit but anyone who's been around can remember what it was like for every WindowBlinds news item or whatever to have a small army of msstyles advocates insisting that WB was crap and that the reason it was so popular was because people were "stupid sheep" (it couldn't possibly have been because it was faster, used less memory and has tons more features but I digress).

So now I fear we're starting to see the same thing in the widget arena. But this time we have an idea what causes this phenomenon: When a product (freeware or not) has no official home base where its most..passionate users can hang out, they tend to end up on community sites. And so they try to turn those community sites into their home base and drive off all others.

That sort of thing led to a recent blow-out on Aqua-Soft. Aqua-Soft is one of the most superbly run net communiteis around. But as we've seen here on WinCustomize even, from time to time the community itself can get out of hand.

I've written previously how much I like the various widget programs. Samurize, Avedesk, Kapsules, and of course DesktopX (and on my Mac I'm a registered user of Konfabulator). Like I said, I'm totally into this stuff. But I worry you're going to see the same sort of nonsense we saw with the msstyles vs. WindowBlinds stuff. Rather than respect the choices people make, some people would go out of their way to attack and harass others for their choices and opinions.

But then again, when I go into the lion's den and talk about these things, I feel like anything I say is going to be distorted into something awful. Here is a rule of thumb: If the website gets less than 1 million unique visitors per month, then someone who makes a living doing software is only on there because they care about the product or service personally. There's no business justification to hang out on some niche site talking shop - especially on labor day. Believe it or not, people who make a living writing software actually do care about their software just as much as the "freeware" author.

But like I said, I'm really into the whole concept of doing cool stuff with your desktop. I think with Longhorn coming that we're just at the beginning of the cool stuff that will become possible. I am hoping all these programs gather followers - a rising tide lifts all boats. But if it becomes a battle of niche programs, they will all remain niche programs.

On a sadder note, my pet frog "Kermit" died yesterday. We had had him for 5 years so we were pretty bummed out. He had had a long life though. He was one of those little African frogs that people (5 years ago) could buy at the mall.

We had him in the original aquarium with his roommate Gary, the snail. Now Gary is alone and we have to figure out a way for him to find..um "food" now that the frog isn't there anymore. That leaves us with just Cuddles (the box turtle I've had for the past 18 years).

So next week we'll be starting to roll out WinCustomize v4. First to our admins/moderators and then slowly on out to WinCustomize subscribers and beyond. Lots of good stuff in there.

Also next week we'll be releasing The Natural Desktop. Imagine taking incredibly cool looking wallpapers, a huge volume of custom sound tracks for outside sounds, and tying them all together with logic that looks at the time of day, weather conditions, and time of year. The screenshots won't do it justice since it's really the overall "experience" (visual, audio, and subtle workings) that make it so cool. But you'll hear more about that this week.

Have fun!

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All programs always have people who will forever be against it. Often times, the complaints can't be supported at all.

For instance..I was using Trillian over at my cousin's house, and he complained about how much Trillian sucks, and if I need a program that can support multiple mediums, I should just use Gaim.

Well, being someone who is totally into skinning and graphics, its understandable that I use Trillian. However, he uses AIM, because its the only medium he needs a connection to. He puts down ICQ, and he absolutely despises MSN and Trillian. Why? "Why do I need so many useless functions?!"

As we all know, in the past year AOL has upgraded AIM tremendously. Yet in doing so, they've stolen so many features from:
MSN
ICQ
Trillian
Many others
AIM sucked before AOL stole these features. Now..I have nothing against ANY medium being uses. I just personally prefer Trillian because of its skinning capabilities.

I only bring up all this because it is exactly what people do with every program. They hate it..and yet..they can't come up with a good reason to hate it. Oh, oh, no wait..sometimes people say stuff like "It has so many useless features!!" Well..maybe THEY don't use it because it has some "unnecessary" features. But..isn't that only unnecessary to them? And..what..are you going to complain that your program has too many features that makes life too easy for you? We're constantly advancing and expanding, and people are merely insecure with change.

I personally have ObjectDock Plus, but I do not currently use it. Why? I haven't picked out quite exactly what I want it to do. But I still think its awesome..I'm not just going to start hating it.

But I guess that's not quite the change I mean..Change, to me, involves changing the company who creates the program.

Take the anti-Apple crisis, for example. Nearly everyone I know hates Apple. And yet..They haven't used it in the past..five+ years. They haven't even seen OS 9, let alone X.

I can't imagine all the crap that people have to take when they create a program. There's so much RIGHT with Stardock, that they really don't deserve any complaints. Of course someone will somehow find some bug no matter what. But that's the case with every program! That's mainly the fault of Microsoft, though, because they have so many different versions of Windows, and often make upgrades. Sure, it'll make your Windows better. But it often causes problems with the programs that use any features of Windows (ie any dlls).

I doubt anyone is going to read that, but..eh.

Anyway...That's too bad about your Kermit, Frogboy. Are you going to get a new frog? If you do, I suggest you teach him how to sing "The Rainbow Connection." Man that's a good song.

"The Natural Desktop" seems like such a brilliant idea. Having the Object Desktop suite, I'm surprised that I didn't even fathom such an idea.
Doing "The Natural Desktop" will open up so many new variations on skinning that my head hurts just thinking about it. I'm also really hoping that Avalon will give Stardock a huge boost for better skinning capabilities.

Point me at them haters and I'll take em down!!! Yes, I'll take them down..with..this thing:

. MWAHAHHAHA. I'MA POKE THEIR EYEBALLS OUT!!

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^I think you overextended yourself bringing Apple and MS into the mix.

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Frogboy, only a different note, i am really interested in the icons u have in your screenshot, specifically the Hard Drive Icon...I have been trying to find some large drive icons for my desktop to support my multiple internal hard drives, cd writer, dvd writer and USB memory stick. ALso I like the labels you have for underneath.....If you don't mind would you be kind enough to let me know where you got the icons and how I do the labels......I am a user rather than a creator...any help would be appreciated

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Fanboys will always been around nomatter what happens frogboy. Personally i've just given up on sticking up for a particular company, not because of a lack of reason to say that they are better, but because the "fanboy/Zealot" will just not agree, or even agree to disagree.

Sorry to hear about your Frog brad. Hope you manage to find a new friend for Gary!

I'm also in the same position as ZeroVirus, I have also bought objectdock but i barely use it, because i dont know quite what to do with it, but as ZeroVirus said, i'm not about to start hating it because it's a extraordinary program!

Natural Desktop sounds awesome. I will probably end up buying that aswell

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Go git 'im Zero

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we'll since all of my words have been twisted by our glorious host Brad, i have no doubts that he's going to succseed once again

For one reason or the other, ever since he resurfaced at AS things have gone wrong. i`m not going into who`s the blame, since i know i`m going to be labeled as a flamer/zealot/idiot/whatever, the point is that air around Brad is on flame. He drowe away Ave, the creator of an app that was competing with DX, and was arguably better/lighter than DX. Along with that he managed to get AS closed (well the whole controversy around him lead to that). And with that i hoped that at least his attacts on AveDesk would come to an end.

However i was wrong. As soon as a review of AveDesk on AXP appeared, our hard working, faithfull and more than anything, unbiased Brad surfaced as a frog from a pond, bashing AveDesk, and what a supprise, ADVERTISING DEKTOP X (now u can buy it in every public toilet too ). At that moment i started wondering what the heck is going on? Such a superiour program in its 2.2 version needs to be advertised on that magnitude? Why is that? Doesn`t it allready have a good reputation and word-of-mouth recommendation? I swollowd the crap Brad was trying to serve about me a biased AveDesk zealot and a big bad mod/newsposter from AS when he "quoted" me and told me i was intentionally pushing DX behind. I took a slap and kept quiet when Brad yesterday posted his blog saying that "it`s not for the news so i`m posting it as a blog", where he, oh so lonley and poor was harrased by "small but vocal" bunch of AveDesk supporters.

I disregarded all his attacks and twisting of the truth (some people would call it lying, but now me )but i think our lil' Brad has gone too far now with his kill-crush-and-destroy AveDesk hunt. It appears Brad is sometimes personally, sometimes over individuals that seem strangely devoted to him, hunting every post/review/news about AD and doing the best he can to bash the program and its creator and oh so mention, that DX r0x0rz m3 s0x0rz b0x0rz!!!!!!!1111.

Why all this agresion Brad? If AveDesk zealots are being blinded and unfair to you and your apps, why are you so agresive and some might say it, unfair towards Ave and his apps? I`m not going into what you have been telling about me, i don`t simply care anymore, but when u start bashing a good person and all that to fill ur pockets, i draw the line. Since u`ve been so vocal in mentioning how you put AquaSoft in the "Wired" article, i`m pleased to announce that i`ve managed to put AveDesk into another popular and highly rated PC magazine, along with a little story about this whole DX controversy.

And trust me Brad, ur going to love it. I promise u that. If you leave me your adress i`ll hapilly mail it to you when it gets out. oh and another thing that come to my mind is how a person who`s company that touts freedom and personal choice (in terms of GUI and other program options) is so against a program that gives users a choice in widget programs category? Why such a big company like SD feels the urge to hunt and kill every word about AveDesk? Anyway, i really hope that both "vocal AveDesk flaming bunch of zealots" and you and your company get what they/we deserve.

If there is any justice in the world, you will realize that you should have spent more time making a better program instead of killing the competition with your "kind words" and sad stories. In any case, stay well Brad, and let you earn many more millions of dollars. I was going to support u and OD+ (since i respect Jef's work on it, as much as i respect Ave's work on AveDesk), but i`m guessing that u won`t miss my money. Cheers PS Who`s going to be the first to post that my comment is "big, bad company vs an individual"? Or that i`m a stupid, brain dead zealot who came to bash our lovely, goodie Brad and our competitive and fair SD?

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oh and my text is cluttered and unreadable.
i trully apologize for that. i tried to edit it but it says i`m not authorised to view that page :/

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You're really sad Unbeliever. You're exactly what Brad described...to the T. Just another AveDesk fanboy crying like a little baby how Brad and Stardock are evil and AveDesk is better than DX. Grow up man...

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congratulations!
u won a "I don't know how to read" award.
anyways, i`ve just read that Frogboy's frog died, and in respect to it i won`t post anymore here.

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I haven't been following any the controversy that you talked about, so I can't really reflect on anything you said.

HOWEVER, I do know that attacks are generally not a good idea. So..what..you get more people against SD, whatever. But then what? Surely it won't just end there. I'll bet even if our friend Brad (whose name you made sure to mention plenty of times =P) retaliates in no way whatsoever, you'll still attack back. Or am I wrong?

I really do not know anything that he did, so I can neither defend him nor support you. I do know, though, that its better to attempt to resolve issues, rather than try to make them worse.

By the way, could you please give me some points for reading your entire HUGE paragraph?

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I, for one, have a difficult time taking anything posted by Unbeliever seriously. Why? Let's see. Terrible grammar? Yes, that's a good start. Worse spelling? Again, that's a 'yes'. A typo every now and then, I can understand since I am the King of Typos. For your information, Unbeliever, Brad has stated numerous times that Ave, the person, is an honorable and just person and that AveDesk has features that make it a good application. Ave has stated here that he appologizes and wishes the entire ordeal had not been blown out of proportion. From what I've read on A-S the last few days, timan and DZ have stated that it was the reactions and posts from immature members of A-S that caused the suspension of the forums and not the posts made by Ave or Brad. I admit I did not see the episode at A-S as it happened but I have seen how Brad reacts to posts which attack him and products that Stardock make. When Brad posts a rebuttal, he ALWAYS has facts to back up what he says. He doesn't allow his emotions speak for him. He has facts do the speaking. Therefore, I can not imagine Brad attacking Ave or AveDesk unless AveDesk is nothing more than a system hack. And my understanding is that it is not.

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I find it rather funny that if someone posts an attack, sooo many people attack back so quickly. Snidely, you really did not need to point out that his grammar and spelling were a bit...off. If anything he's..hmm..misinformed.

Honestly, the best thing to do would to be link to places that will prove him wrong. Calling him something such as..."sad"..will really do no good. Think about it.

I'd hook us all up with some links, but I'm busy messing with OD Plus right now, hehe =D.

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ok
1.@ xxZeroVirusxx - english is not my mother tongue, so please forgive my grammar and spelling errors. i would like to see you learning a foreign language and doing it flawless
2. i`d let his die cause Ave asked me too but after i saw Frogboy posting another "this is a biased post/AveDesk fanboys galore" post like this http://aquaxp.com/index.php?p=11#comments i had to answer
3. i posted that ugly paragraph and tried to edit/fix it but i couldn`t
4. i`m not against all of Brad's comments (some of them have a really good point) but i just think the scale of them is unnecessarily large + he had some comments that i consider just another SD/DX fanboy flames, just like some of mine were biased towards AD
5. i realised that i let myself be drawn into this too deep and i`m getting out. for all flaming and emotional posts i`m sorry. for all the facts i stated i`m not sorry, i still firmly stand behind them.
6. @ Snidely Whiplash - thanks for that post. i must admmit it gave me hope that not all people are morons. (this wasn`t targeted at anyone, just my personal dissapointment in some people)

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WC4! Excellent! Cant wait.

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I read that link, and I don't see a problem with the first post that he made (I didn't look all the way through the rest, so I do not know if he made another one or not). He probably shouldn't have used that as an opportunity to list the abilities of DesktopX. I don't think, however, that this is a large problem, or a problem worth getting into a fight for.

Also, Unbeliever, how could you possibly tell me "i would like to see you learning a foreign language and doing it flawless." I said that it was a bit off, but I didn't say that I had a problem with it. I understand that most people..even Americans..tend to have large problems with English.

Furthermore, how could you thank Snidely Whiplash? He said that he can't believe anything you say because of the way you type. I don't get it...

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I've never heard of AveDesk, and after reading the Cr@% above hope to never hear of it again. Unbeliver, you are setting a really bad example for support of AveDesk

By the way, my condolences on the loss of Kermit, Brad

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@ xxZeroVirusxx - that was the point

anyways thanks for the reply. i didn`t mean for that part to sound harsh towards you. i was just stating that learning a foreign language is not easy for anyone

i burried the hatchet since sadly, AveDesk is history now since Ave decided to kill all of AveApps cause of this whole thing/hatemail he was getting from SD/DX fanboys.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

Unbeliever: I'll try to fix your paragraphs for you so that it's not one big large paragraph. I don't agree with your views but you certainly have a right to communicate them.

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thank you for fixing that Frogboy.
And your right, oppinios should be exchanged in a civilised manner.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

quoting
Why all this agresion Brad? If AveDesk zealots are being blinded and unfair to you and your apps, why are you so agresive and some might say it, unfair towards Ave and his apps? I`m not going into what you have been telling about me, i don`t simply care anymore, but when u start bashing a good person and all that to fill ur pockets, i draw the line. Since u`ve been so vocal in mentioning how you put AquaSoft in the "Wired" article, i`m pleased to announce that i`ve managed to put AveDesk into another popular and highly rated PC magazine, along with a little story about this whole DX controversy.

And trust me Brad, ur going to love it. I promise u that. If you leave me your adress i`ll hapilly mail it to you when it gets out. oh and another thing that come to my mind is how a person who`s company that touts freedom and personal choice (in terms of GUI and other program options) is so against a program that gives users a choice in widget programs category? Why such a big company like SD feels the urge to hunt and kill every word about AveDesk? Anyway, i really hope that both "vocal AveDesk flaming bunch of zealots" and you and your company get what they/we deserve.
end quote

In other words, you're demonstrating precisely what I was getting at. While I make articles on JoeUser and Neowin and elsewhere promoting ALL of the widget enabling programs, you have decided to go around and try to do harm to us. And to what end? So that you can help give Avedesk users a permanent reputation as a bunch of zealots?

Who wrote this article that touts Avedesk? http://frogboy.joeuser.com/index.asp?AID=27014

I want to support all the programs involved. You and others like you are effectively trying to get one band of users against another. And to what end?

Stardock's not exactly anti-competitive, after all, we're the ones who host Samurize, the most popular competitor to DesktopX available. We get nothing in return other than following through on the basic view that a rising tide lifts all boats.

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WC4. Good look. Makes me want to sit in the house and wait until it comes out.

I love DX even more now. never tried the other programs but after this and other articles, I might give it a shot. AveDesk sounds cool. Samerize sounds hard...

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Frogboy, first of all please accept my condolances. May Kermit rest in peace.

Now, about this whole thing: just keep doing what you do best, ignoring all the shit - pardon my language - people are throwing at you (like certain members @ Neowin, which b.t.w. are just a bunch of 10 year olds). These people who criticize you and your work are just jealous because they can't do better and/or have failed to produce something that is worth a damn. That's all.

Our best wishes to you and your family,

Sincerely,

MonsterTruck.

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@ brad - i didn`t explain what i meant well, i`m sorry.
anyway, as i said, i burried the hatchet.
only time will tell who was right, even though AveDesk won`t be developed anymore, which is a shame.
for everyone who wants to get labels and try AveDesk 1.1 now:

http://mpj.tomaatnet.nl/AveDesk11.exe AveDesk 1.1 Installer
http://s92891953.onlinehome.us/unbelvr/AveDesk_Tutorial_Luna.pdf Tutorial

PS If you find this inapropriate Brad, i`ll understand if u delete this post.

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if, in fact, english is not his native language, i can understand the lack of correct spelling and grammar. although, i won't apologize for my not taking what he said in his post seriously. and zero, i did nothing to provoke your comments towards me.

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Haha..this is great!

First of all, Brad, your post about fixing his paragraph, that was excellent..haha. I was thinking about how you'd respond, and between that and your next post..splendid!

Unbeliever: I don't quite understand what you were saying to me, but as I've attempted to learn multiple other languages and ..know..no..other..languages..I understand how hard it is to speak languages other than your native.

The way you posted was interesting..it made it a bit difficult for Brad to actually delete the post. However, I don't see how it could be considered inappropriate, anyway.

Lastly...This whole thing was interesting, but its over now..I don't suggest anyone getting more into it. Or..nothing directed at Unbeliever any more, at least.

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