OT: War in Iraq myths and facts » Forum Post by Frogboy

(sarcasm tag)(in hi and shrill voice) How dare you post this garbage on a skin site. Just what political arguement you trying to start? This is so wrong. I think I will go somewhere that only talks about skinning. Oh, I guess there are none. Well this is still wrong! (sarcasm tag off)

Reminds me of the Mac nuts discussed on the message board.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

One thing that is amazing is how little third party news gets posted. Here's a site that gets well over 2 MILLION *unique* visitors per month and hardly any third parties actually submit news.

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how can you print such republican peopaganda on our skin site? occasional bad news from Iraq? try daily slaughter. bush is a murdering bastard, but we have a political forum if we want it at joe user. this doesn't belong here. you just ruined my morning. please don't post political crap on this site,f0r either side.i get politics all day long from my Iraqui boss, i don't need it on my day off.

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Yeah be careful, but America is still a free country. Some of the fact in the article is myth! I'm nearly 50 and just missed out on a compulsory trip to a another war on my 18th birthday. But I do believe that war was stopped by soldiers, peaceniks, muslims, christians , jews, black, white, tall, short, thin and fat: all standing up to say it has to end. Could those days come again or are the passing years giving me an unhealthy dose of naive romanticism?

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

I read the article and while one can quible with parts of it, I would certainly be interested in hearing any significant inaccuracies in it.

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All right, I just read the article and can also find nothing in there to quibble about. Let the record show that I am a conservative Republican BTW. Just to be up front. I'm of the opinion that those of you who are crying about the posting would have been rejoicing had it been a website that bashed Bush and the current US policy in Iraq and the Middle East. At least be up front and acknowledge that as well. There has so far (in 5 postings) been no legitimate discussion or refutation of the statements made in the article, just crying from those who are too closed minded to hear anything but that which they wish to hear. It's actually refreshing to read a point of view that is an alternative to the mainstream drivel being printed in the mainstream press and spouted from the mainstream airwaves every day.

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National Review's contributors over the past couple of years spilled a lot of ink selling the war. We should hardly be surprised that they feel the need to defend it, now that it's blood that's being spilled.

Shame on you for being their shill.

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"There has so far (in 5 postings) been no legitimate discussion or refutation of the statements made in the article."

OK, HERE GOES:

"In fact, there are only about 4,500-5,500 NATO troops in Afghanistan right now. The United States and its Anglo allies routed the Taliban by themselves"

TRUE, YET MEANINGLESS TO THE ARGUMENT. NATO OFFERED TO MAKE AFGHANISTAN A FULL-BLOWN NATO OPERATION AND, AND WE TURNED THEM DOWN. THIS TIME, WE *ASKED* FOR INTERNATIONAL APPROVAL, AND GOT NONE. THIS WAS A VERY SNEAKY STAT FOR MR. HANSON TO EMPLOY.

"Myth #3: Lies got us into this war. Did the administration really mislead us about the reasons to go to war..."

YES, THEY DID. THEY CLAIMED SPECIFIC KNOWLEDGE OF WMD STOCKPILES THAT CLEARLY DID NOT EXIST. THAT'S THE KIND OF THING THAT ALL GOOD MOMS TELL THEIR KIDS ARE LIES.

"Myth #5: Israel has caused the United States untold headaches in the Arab world by its intransigent policies."

LOOK, THIS IS A REALITY, NOT A MYTH. ONE CAN ARGUE WHETHER IT IS *REASONABLE* FOR THE ARAB WORLD TO HATE ISRAEL, WHETHER IT IS RIGHT OR WRONG, BUT IT'S CLEARLY *TRUE*. ANYBODY WHO CLAIMS THAT ISRAEL'S POLICIES DON'T MAKE IT HARDER FOR THE U.S. TO CONVINCE THE ARAB WORLD OF OUR GOOD INTENTIONS IS JUST FLAT LYING.

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O.K. Here goes. NR is a Conservative mag devoted to the Republican party. There are hundreds of links on the Web to refute the NR views. We've been through this before. Frogboy and Old Crab went round and round and solved absolutely.........nothing. I believe Bush lied and Frogboy did'nt. I do believe someone (ahem) is trying to bait the Old Crab again. However the Old Crab ain't going to bite this time!

>

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Just one more thought. Please comment in a civil manner. >

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I find it interesting how you can look a pretty much each comment on the topic, and quickly identify the particlar commenter's leanings on the subject
and ultimatly come away without the satifaction of a objective discussion of the said topic.
Easier for me to say, I suppose, as a non-American.

The National Review's leanings are obvious, and I think they try to hard to justify past and current actions. Their time might be better spent sticking to analysis and recommendations on how to move forward given the current states of affairs.

I did find their coments on Israel pretty much right on the mark.It never ceases to amaze me how often the US becomes a target due to actions in Israel and Palestine.

Anyway, thanks for the link Frogboy and the hopes for intelligent duscussion.
(sorry for the poor spelling)

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Anthony R

Join Date 01/2003

+59

Frogboy how could you post this, he is Hitler I say!... Hitler!

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

I find it a bit disengenous when someone claims Bush "lied". Bush was obviously in error about WMD stockpiles but there's no evidence he lied. He simply parroted the same things Clinton and others before him said. Woodward's new book makes it pretty clear that CIA director Tenet was so certain that there were WMD stockpiles that he referred to it as a "slam dunk".

Though for those who supported the war in the first place, WMD stockpiles weren't the issue. WMD know-how and taking out the bad apples in that region in a post-9/11 world was the issue. Those who were against the action are still against the action. I've yet to see someone say "Well, I was totally in favor of things before but since they didn't find WMD I'm now against it." It's just a blunt instrument.

BTW, one of the nice things about owning a website is that you can make news items on whatever you want. If someone has a problem with that, they can choose to visit a different website. This article was simply pointing to an article to see what people thought. There's no reason for anyone to get hysterical about it.

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Democracy implemented by force? Like in Chile, you mean?
Or Salvador?

Bush in error? He lied! Better: Cheney lied to Bush and he "parroted" the same things to us.

"If someone has a problem with that, they can choose to visit a different website"

I will! Bye.

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It will be very interesting to see the report from the investigation into the food for oil program. I think it will be a real eye opener

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'I find it a bit disengenous when someone claims Bush "lied".'

When you say that you know things to be true, when you're only assuming them to be true, you are lying.

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Look, Bush tried to sell the world a war in Iraq by using erroneous intelligence data. You can argue about the war untill you're blue in the face but the fact is he himself even doubted the intelegence. When he became too impatient to wait on the weapons inspectors findings.... doesn't that say something? Cleary the removal of sadam is a good thing from a humanitarian perspective but bush in all his arrogance felt he needed to sell a war to the public not fight the war in a manor in which the U.S. could be victorious in a quick way with as few casualties as possible. Now look at the mess we're in.

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Really what the hell, here you have a HIGHLY SUCCESSFUL skin that that is always ON TOPIC, and not subject to silly news articles that people want to post on a whim....and you post this?

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The reason 3rd parties dont post news is beause.....THEY DONT HAVE ANY SKINNING NEWS THAT OTHER PEOPLE DONT ALREAYD KNOW ABOUT.

I've never once read a complaint that there isnt enough off-topic stuff posted on the front page. People like that WC is ONLY about skinning. Please, get the Political stuff, and Starwars nonsense off the front page, lest this site become /.

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I agree, This site should be devoted to Skinning and applications which are useful to those interested in skinning. Opinions of such a blatent right wing nature such as this post don't belong here. Period.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

When WC becomes a democracy, we'll let you know and then we can vote on what news items come up.

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Brad, I think you're starting to get JoeUser confused with your real business.

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I am not a Republican, nor am I a Democrat. I am an American. And I am a veteran of the US Army. Among other experiences, I participated in Operations Desert Shield and Desert Storm and the recovery operations which followed them. My primary mission was to coordinate and direct the interrogation of POWs, and the interviews of defectors, refugees, and others.

I participated in dozens of such interrogations and interviews, observed hundreds more, and read the reports of thousands beyond those. I saw first-hand the condition and mental state of these people and heard first-hand their accounts of how they lived under the regime of Saddam Hussein. I saw with my own eyes the wounds and scars of some of those who were tortured in Kuwait.

I was, quite frankly, dismayed when we were ordered to cease our pursuit of the Iraqui military at that time, but I did my duty and said nothing except to close friends and family. But let me say this: There is not one tiny doubt in my mind that Saddam Hussein and his cohorts needed to be removed from power and that they could not be removed without the intervention by force of arms of an external power.

I very deeply regret the loss of life and the injuries which are a direct result of the actions taken to remove Saddam and the Baath Party from power. I know personally how devastating it is to lose someone close to you in the violence of war. But I have no doubt whatsoever that we did the right thing in removing Saddam Hussein et al from power in Iraq.

I won't debate the politics of this issue or participate in the after action review that has so many of you stirred up. All I can and will say is that if you haven't been there, if you haven't seen with your own eyes or personally talked to the victims of Saddam Hussein's regime, then this is nothing more than an academic exercise for you. For me, and many more like me, it's personal. And we did the right thing.

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Boy I still cant believe that people like mdognrdog are so brainwashed by leftist democrap tripe that they just cant see reality. I can type all night but here is a few things to ponder.

First, your democrat hero Bill Clinton and his administation basically have said the same things that President Bush has said about Irag and its wmd. So why is it now a big republican plot and a lie and Pres. Bush is a monster but Clinton was right on and some kind of hero. President Bush is actually doing something about it, and that make democraps and liberal wackos really mad. This acutally brings up a side point. We have this sham 911 commission blasting Bush for not doing anything to prevent 911 and terror attacks, yet everybody is complaining that our premptive stikes at terrorist are somehow wrong. Just another democrap play because their candidate is a zero.

Next. While the democraps pressured Bush into getting the UN and other allies to help us, a process that took 18 months, you dont think that Saddam moved or hid his wmd. If you really dont think Saddam had wmd, then what did he kill 10s of thousands of his own people with? Also we did get one wmd so far - Saddam himself.

Also if Saddam did not have wmd, then why did he prevent inspectors from doing their jobs. Why didnt Saddam just throw open the doors? He could have made Pres. Bush look foolish and proved he was wrong and he would have remained in power.

Another point about war for profit. Boy we can all see that, cant we! I am glad Pres Bush went to war for oil, because I love my low gas prices .. oh, wait... thats right gas prices have been increasing. Well I guess the democraps are wrong again.

I just hope that everybody just stops and thinks before they accept what they hear on the news. Its almost always liberal wacko democrap filth. In these days of the Internet, everybody can find out whats really going on and hear the truth.

God bless America, President Bush, and our armed forces.

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We are saturated with extremist web sites promoting their renditions of the issues surrounding the Bush administration. Regardless of who they are and what they are preaching there is no need to connect them or their agendas in any way to Wincustomize. I visit this site and support the vendors represented on this site for the sake of a more enjoyable and informed computing experience, not to be referred to politically polarized web sites or even to politics in general. Stick with what you do best and leave politics out of it.

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