Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

Do Mac users have a credibility problem?

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MacOS X 10.3 is out. It's code-named "Panther". And once again Mac users are touting it as being OS perfection. But didn't they say the same thing about 10.2 ("Jaguar")? Didn't much the same get said about the original 10.0 release that was pretty much unusable for all but die-hards? Remember the comparison articles that all amazingly showed MacOS X to always be better than Windows XP? No, Jaguar was simply not as usable as Windows XP unless you were a pure Mac shop. But Panther, admittedly, is really good. But who will believe Mac claims at this point?

It would seem the Mac community has a credibility problem. This article on JoeUser talks about it while at the same time pointing out that, sure enough, Panther is actually quite good. But because Mac users denied the fairly significant issues many (particularly "switchers") people had with Jaguar, they face the problem of widespread skepticsm (check out Usenet and tech forums for examples) because Mac "advocates" tended to pretend problems with previous versions didn't exist (yet will later give kudos to Apple for fixing those same nonexisting problems in Panther).

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I'm sure when 10.4 comes out they'll be singing "best ever" all over again. I'll stick with XP thanks

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its sad because its true. Every new version is a second coming

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Yeah... I bought a G5 recently because I heard what MS was planning for their new OS/IE(no more IE support for any version but the latest version of Windows) and I wanted to get a head start on switching. I still can not get used to it.

Managing the windows in OSX is way too cumbersome and inefficient. I can not stand using DW or FW in OSX. I can't seem to get any work done while in OSX.

I now have a USB/Monitor switch so I can switch between using my Mac and a WindowsXP machine. I use my Windows machine for Web Development and email management. My wife, however, enjoys OSX so she uses it much more than I.

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"Do Mac users have a credibility problem?"

Without a doubt...

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Yup and every new version of Windows is the biggest thing since '95 too.

Apple isn't alone in this crap. Though, at least with XP, Microsoft was right for once. ( related to putting out a good product for once

)

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I work at a university, where different platforms are in use. I'm going to lay it down like it is. Mac OSX is one of the worst OSes i have dealt with. Their tech support can be labeled clueless as well. I am totally disappointed with their os as well as their support services. I'll stick with XP.

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I recently bought a PowerBook. Being in the computer industry I had little problem getting used to things. As Windows users switching you have to realize things will be weird for a while. Microsoft has such a strangle hold on the industry that we all just know Windows. So anything new is difficult. If Apple were dominant in the market then we would see complaints about how XP does not play well with our OS X network.
Why is it that we use Windows as the benchmark anyway? Rendezvous is an amazing networking tool, why do we not see people compainlaining that Micosoft should support that protocol? Instead people complain that OS X does not work with Microsoft's closed networking.
Anyway, the fact is, I have never met anyone who switched to Apple and wanted to go back to Microsoft.

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I for one was one of those "I quit the PC and bought a MAC" guys as soon as the iMac was available. I ordered one for my family - with the logic that my kids (age 2-12) will be using it for schoolwork or just playing around with it, it made sense to me. What a bad move. Not only did I order gobs of MAC software from Apple along with the PC, and I totally upgraded it just *in case* something needed the state-of-the-art feature (shades of the PC world) to run right.

Only 2 out of the 10 or so apps I bought worked under OS10. Remember, I ordered this from Apple so I *assumed* they would have forwarned me they won't work. The iMac kept autobooting into OS Classic or something when they loaded an app. After quitting the app, the OS never booted back into OS 10, so I would hear "DAAAADDDDD!" *constantly*. They hated the browser interface, the MAC version of Quicken doesn't even list Netbank as an available bank, the productivity software sucked, and I barely returned the POS in time for a refund.

Oh, by the way, there was a $250 "restocking fee", even though I was still under my 30 satisfation guarantee. Now, this isn't and IBM jock giving up, this is my kids who told me to send it back - they hated it.

I'd like to do and Apple "I switched! - but swiched back Quick!" add for Dell or Compaq or something.. Sheeesh! It's no suprise to me that the OS's have trouble, but it seems to me that Apple rushed the OS's to market without giving thier developer base the time to create good core apps for it.

Sorry to crab.. but aaahhhhhhh that felt good!..

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

Yes. But Apple ISN'T the dominant OS provider so they have to deal with that.

My issue wasn't that Jaguar has problems dealing with mixed networks (printing and sharing). Or that it was visually slow. My problem was that Mac users a) Denied these things. Flamed those who brought them up. and c) When Panther came out they touted how it addressed the very issues they had just denied.

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"Anyway, the fact is, I have never met anyone who switched to Apple and wanted to go back to Microsoft."

Get out much?

j/k

Off the top of my head, I can think of at least 10 people I know that came running back. I can honestly say that I have never met anyone who switched to Apple and liked it enough NOT to switch back...and I know many who have tried.

Also, Brad's last paragraph hits the nail on the head....ding ding ding

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OK, guys, you’ve got to admit that this forum is primarily a Windows only forum. Yeah, you see a lot of skins that are made to look like the MAC, but what applications are being skinned? They’re Windows Apps. So, the majority of users of this sight are discriminators of non-Microsoft OS’s. My point here is that you all are “Preaching To The Choir”.
I have had 7 PC’s in the last 8 years. My newest is just a couple months old. I have used every OS that Microsoft has come out with through XP Professional. I will most likely continue to use Microsoft OS’s. I have one of my current PC’s dual boot with LINUX. I started out as one of the very first to buy a MAC. I bought my first MAC in 1984. I have had 2 more MAC’s since then. My most recent MAC was purchased in 1995. It was a PowerPC. As you can tell, I am one of the ones that switched from the MAC to Windows. I also am a UNIX Systems Administrator by trade.
There are pro’s and con’s to all of these OS’s. The one thing that I am continually amazed by though is, that so many of the Windows users continually bash the MAC. They complain about the Windowing environment of the MAC, (can’t get to the underlying OS), etc. The observation that I have made though, is that with each new version of Windows, the Microsoft OS is featuring more and more MAC ideas.
One of Stardock’s more popular Apps, that I use, right now is ObjectDock. Where did the idea for that come from? Quite a few of the icon’s developed for ObjectDock came from OS X.
I guess what I am trying to say is, even though I have switched from being a MAC user to being a Windows user, I still think that the MAC is a great product. The biggest mistake that I think Apple made, was a marketing problem, not a design problem. Bill definitely has marketed his products better that Steve has.

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I don't have as much MAC experience as most people, I've avoided MACs ever since the harddrive less old-school Apples we had in elementary school. I do know that recently a friend of mine bought on of the new G5 Powerbooks with the extra-wide screen. While it looks like something out of a James Bond movie, I couldn't help but notice that when he comes over he STILL BRINGS HIS PC (a desktop system, not even a laptop) for gaming

, and in fact I've never really seen him do anything with the powerbook...

If you're concerned about IE not being updated for any but the latest windows version, I hightly recommend switching your browser rather than your OS. Mozilla is a great browser, Firebird is getting better every day, and both of those have Mac incarnations to make the transition easier if you ever do need to actually switch.

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Tom, I was given an Apple IIGS when it was first released. Within a little over a year, Apple completely stopped supporting it, and Apple software was no longer compatable with it, even though I easily exceeded the minimum system requirements.

The local school system was also a pure Mac place. They kept having the same problem year after year, they finally switched to PC because it was so much less effort to maintain, even though it meant that Apple wouldn't be giving them free computers anymore and they now had to buy their own.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

That this is a Windows site only highlights the problem Mac users have: The Mac community has expended its credibility by LYING and DENYING real problems in previous versions of MacOS such that Windows users don't give much credence to the claims by Mac users at this point. A MacOS X switch ad today will have far less impact than the previous one because so many people were burned because Jaguar was not ready for prime time.

How's that for getting it down to the brass tacks.

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Don't hold back Brad...

I couldn't have said it better myself.

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Whoa whoa whoa, lying and denying real problems? sure past OSs have wierdness about them. But you all have to consider as people said before, that you are looking at this from a Windows world. Apple isn't wrong because it isn't windows. Its an entirely different OS, ofcourse its going to be different. Sure OSs might have bugs or not be stable at times, as windows users you should know that best.
*oh yea, side-note for the guy who wrote about his apple being a POS because he bought out of date programs. Do some research next time. You should be happy the apple could run the old OS. You bought a product for another OS entirely so you were making the machine run two OSs at once. Its not Apple's fault because you didn't do your research, for all they knew you had an old computer and bought those programs for them then also wanted to buy a new computer. Who were they to judge your decision. Do your research, dont take it out on apple*
I dont know who you've been talking to, but if one or two people say OSX is the best thing since sliced bread, even if it was more than that, i would be pretty skeptical. I certainly dont remember people going off their rockers when OSX was released. It may have its bugs but thats probably because it was revolutionary, they really did completely change the OS. Your doing an awfull lot of generalizing there, the entire apple community didn't lie or deny, come on now, aren't we being a little melodramatic.
You want to talk about empty promises? dont get me started, windows? haha i'm not even going to go there
Also If apple users seem so gung-ho about new OSs there are a bunch of reasons for that. I'm a fan of Windows and Apple but i was apple first and i know its always a problem getting bashed by PC people for liking Apple. But when Apple comes out with something i can be proud of ofcourse i'm gonna get excited about it, its basically shutting up all the jerks who get on my case about liking Apple.I'm a PC owner though aswell, i understand they both have their strength and weaknesses.
And lets just be honest about one thing, if you have a PC for games? You DONT want to get an Apple, Apple's aren't meant for games yet, but that doesn't make then inferior. If you want stability you dont want a PC, like i said they both have their strenghts and weaknesses.
I'm blabbering on i could go in so many directions. Just dont generalize people, as someone said before this is a windows dominant forum, try to see things both ways even if it feels good bashing.

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I agree with Lord Frogboy completely on this issue. One of my pet peeves is the ' We invented it , but MS stole it ' philosophy that the Apple fanatics have. They speak like Apple has come up with everything on their own, which if someone really looked into it, in a lot of cases , isn't true.

I've used Windows , Mac , Unix .. etc .. I use Windows now because it works for everything I need. I suppose I could do the same on *nix or a Mac, but I doubt I'd get the same results for the same effort I get with the PC ( gaming , desktop goodies , etc )

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maybe apple didn't think of it all, and yea apple has its fanatics, but i can't remember the last thing microsoft came up with on its own. Apple has come up with a lot, maybe not all of it, but a whole hell of a lot of the new features that are on OSs. lets just try and remember some inventive things microsoft has come up with? hmmmm

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Yup and every new version of Windows is the biggest thing since '95 too.

ummmm NO not really XP has been the only major release since 95. Example, did anyone blink when ME was released??

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Nope, but MS advertised it as if it was.

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Apples and fishes....just apples and fishes....

One of the "most" complaints I have heard over the years about Micro$oft...is that it is too proprietary....and from a Mac fan, that's gotta be, well, insane......consider a Mac...completely proprietary software running on completely proprietary hardware. This more then anything is what has held Apple to the 5-7% market share. This has hurt them in seriously because they can not take advantage of the same "volume" buying that the "IBM Clones" can access. And now with the latest and greatest Mac.....Macs are falling behind...in the one area that Mac's used to stand out in....Graphics.

As for Macs at school??? How many that now own Windows machines in their homes and actually use them....started out with Macs in school??? I know my kids did.........and only one of them has stayed with Mac..and it's because of an old Mac notebook she got in college. Of course her home PC is Windows.........

Cost?? Flexibility?? Upgradeabiltiy?? If you have a Mac....forget it!

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I'm not going to argue any of this, but I will bring up a few points of interest.

1) Macs retain their resale value muuuuch longer that PCs do. If Macs are so limiting and un-upgradable, why?

2) Apple users may not have much credibility, but neither does Microsoft. Which is worse?

Either way, it doesn't matter to me. These 'problems' with OSX that the Apple users lost their credibility over were negligible at best in my experience. Sure, they can be fanatics, but honestly, what would you call the people that bash Apple on a regular basis, normal users?

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