muusbolla

Join Date 04/2009

[Guide] Torch Bearer - Fire and Ice (Burst Damage/AoE Farming)

level farm pwn push win

Fire / Ice Hybrid Farming Torch Bearer Guide

by muusbolla

This guide is no longer being updated because I can't abide playing this game any more. The lag is terrible, there are no new DGs, stat tracking is broken, the list goes on. I waited MONTHS for Stardock and GPG to get their sh*t together and it still hasn't happened. I can't believe I paid $40 for this game; it should never have gotten out of beta. I have gone back to playing DotA.

0. TABLE OF CONTENTS
1. Introduction
2. Skill Build
3. Strategy / Macro
4. Tactics / Micro
5. Item Build
6. Matchups
7. End Game
8. Final Notes

1. INTRODUCTION
The Torch Bearer is one of the most innately powerful DGs. He does not require many items to dominate; however, he is the best farmer in the game hands down, which makes it very easy for him to acquire items. This build focuses on maximizing his burst damage and AoE farming abilities by using both sides of the skill tree. You will drop your opponents very quickly, leaving them surprised (and dead). You will never have to go to base to heal. You will kill towers and creeps with ease. And then you will buy many items, and many upgrades.

2. SKILL BUILD

Image courtesy of DemigodDB.com

LEVEL    ABILITY
1    Rain of Ice I
2    Fireball I
3    Permafrost I
4    Rain of Ice II
5    Fireball II
6    Fire Nova I
7    Rain of Ice III
8    Fireball III
9    Permafrost II
10    Fireball IV
11    Rain of Ice IV
12    Fire Nova II
13    Permafrost III
14    Deep Freeze I
15    Biting Chill
16    Deep Freeze II
17    Deep Freeze III
18    Deep Freeze IV
19    Fire and Ice
20    Fire Nova III

3. STRATEGY / MACRO
Early Game (before buying Heart of Life):
    Switch between lanes, killing each creep wave instantly with one AoE spell. Try to go to lanes with enemy-controlled flags and cap them. If you encounter a strong enemy, hit them with your AoE spell while killing their creeps at the same time. Then fireball them and go to another lane. Harass your opponents constantly so they cannot farm effectively. Destroy their creeps so they must retreat to their tower (where they cannot kill creeps because their own tower destroys them). Get kills when you can; see kill strategy below.

Mid Game (after buying Heart of Life):
    Continue to bounce between lanes, but now actively engage and harass enemies at every lane. Drive them back from the flag using all your spells from range, then cap the flag. If they try to rush you, run behind your creeps/tower and use Heart of Life. Now you are at full life and mana; rinse and repeat. Dominate and farm every lane. Kill anyone who tries to resist you 1v1. Focus on map control and getting $$$ - your enemies will come to you. Never go to base if you can.

Late Game:
    Continue making gold like it's your job. Get yourself a Godplate if your opponents are tough enough. Then dump money into creep upgrades. Destroy enemy towers - your spells work on them! Push the enemy base by repeatedly nuking towers and keeping yourself full with the Heart. Avoid any enemies you know to be particularly dangerous; stick with your team to kill them.

4. TACTICS / MICRO
a) Kill Strategy
    Initiate with Fire Nova (come from behind, if you can) and then Fireball. Switch to frost form, drop Rain of Ice and then use Deep Freeze soon after Rain of Ice hits. This leaves your opponent -3800 health, and with all of their abilities on cooldown. Now you have the 50% damage bonus from switching from fire to frost, and they are slowed by Permafrost. Now is a good time to use Wand of Speed. Chase and kill.
    If your opponent does not run, just keep autoattacking them for a few seconds, then switch back to fire and Fireball, Fire Nova again. Then switch back to frost to refresh the 50% damage buff. Not many DGs can survive this second wave of spells until the very end of the game. See "End Game" for information on how to deal with really buffed-out enemies.

Stayin' Alive
    This is where using your head comes in. TB excels at 1v1 fights versus Generals. TB can fight 1v1 against Assassins. TB can even fight 1v2 against Generals (by farming their minions and harassing them down). However, do not try to 1v2 if the enemies have an Assassin. You will get stunned/slowed and destroyed.
    The best way to fight against an equally matched enemy is to fight until you are both getting low on health. Then switch to frost form, activate Wand of Speed and run. With Permafrost, you will be able to get out of their range soon. As soon as you get out of range and are no longer taking damage, activate Heart of Life, but keep running. Once you have reached full HP/mana, or the enemy turns around, turn right back around and start nuking them again. Now you have a huge point advantage and all your abilities just came off cooldown...
    In general, Boots of Speed + Wand of Speed + Permafrost + Heart of Life is my key to staying alive with TB.

5. ITEM BUILD

Image courtesy of DemigodDB.com

- Favor -
Swift Anklet

- Start -
Scaled Helm
Banded Armor

- Early -
Vlemish Faceguard
Wand of Speed
Boots of Speed

- Mid -
Heart of Life
Capture Locks

- End -
Godplate

Buy both start items at the beginning. Wait 10 seconds to get enough gold if you have to. This will give you a starting bonus to both health and mana, and static +4/sec regen to both. Static regen is most effective at the beginning of the game, so this will serve you well. You can buy some armor in the mid game if you find that you are dying a lot, but try not to delay farming Heart of Life too long.

Swift Anklet is the best favor item. Move speed is the best stat in Demigod, period. Combined with Permafrost, +move speed items allow Torch Bearer to outchase AND outrun any enemy. I have tried playing with the Amulet of Teleportation, the Blood of the Fallen, and the Staff of Renewal, and every game I wish I had Swift Anklet. The only favor item I have yet to try that might be worth it is Poisoned Dagger.

Note that I have specifically listed Capture Locks. This item's effectiveness cannot be denied, and TB is in the best position to purchase and use Cap Locks - he has plenty of money to buy them and plenty of pushing power to expose the enemy's flags. At the end of the game, I usually leave my base with 3 cap locks every time - they have won me many games. Capping and locking the enemy's portal flags or the 30% reinforcement damage/health flag quite often results in a GG.

6. MATCHUPS
ASSASSINS
    General strategy vs. assassins consists of maintaining optimal range, wearing the enemy down while taking as little damage as possible, until the time is right to strike. Then go for the kill with a barrage of spells and chase them down in frost form.

Torch Bearer
    I find repeated harassing with Fireball from the edge of range to be the most effective tactic against other TBs. If you fight to the death, it all comes down to who has faster fingers. Try to use Deep Freeze to interrupt your opponents' spells. Conversely, avoid the use of Fireball if your opponent is frost - it is easily interrupted by Deep Freeze.

Unclean Beast
    The toughest UB to defeat is one who knows when to rush you. If he charges you directly after Venom Spit, and he has a teammate or it is 1v1, you must run away or he will be able to easily defeat you. Do not try to cast on a UB who is moving towards you; by the time your spell finishes casting, he will be in range to hit you. You must wait until the UB is flat-footed or turning away from you to nuke him.
    If you have a teammate and UB tries to fight you, do not run. Your nukes will leave him at 1/3 health or less, and your teammate will be able to easily finish him before he can kill you.

Regulus
    Very early game (before level 6) Regulus can pose a serious threat. His higher base attack damage, range, and Snipe will make your life difficult. Make sure to 2v1 Regulus or just ignore him until you are higher level.
    Middle game, Regulus is easy food. You can nuke down his small HP before his attacks can do any significant damage. Heart of Life negates Snipe as long as you can use it quickly enough - make sure to get out of combat fast when your HP gets low.

The Rook
    The Rook is food. He has lots of HP, but his damage is relatively low. Just strafe around him (to avoid Hammer Slam and his arrow tower) with Wand of Speed and keep nuking him. He cannot run away from you. A Rook at low HP is an almost guaranteed kill for TB.
    If Rook is trying to hide behind tower spam, hit the towers repeatedly with Fire Nova and Rain of Ice. You will damage him at the same time with the AoE, and his defenses will rapidly melt.

GENERALS
    Against generals, use your 2 AoE spells to destroy their minions at the beginning of the battle. Once they find themselves facing you alone in the middle of a battlefield strewn with the bodies of their dying allies, most generals will run. If they stay and fight, they are almost surely dead.

Oak
    Oak is tough. He has a lot of HP, and does a lot of damage. His slow (Penitence) and attack-while-moving skillz make him hard to escape. However, once you get Permafrost III kiting him becomes relatively easy. Just abuse his melee range to keep hitting him without taking damage. Avoid wasting spells on him when he becomes invulnerable, and then get the hell out once he dies (so he doesn't kill you after he comes back to life).

Queen of Thorns
    Queen is nothing more than an annoyance most games. She can push hard, and is difficult to kill if her shield is high level. However, her damage is very low. Focus on destroying her minions and you will restrict her effectiveness. Do not waste time seriously trying to kill her; your efforts will usually be futile.

Sedna
    Sedna can be dangerous, if she can get on top of you with Pounce. Sedna also runs quickly, making her hard to chase and escape from. She has low HP, but can heal herself quickly to full. A Sedna who plays defensively will always be at full HP, making her difficult to kill. Focus on pushing Sedna back, but do not engage her directly, as she usually will not die. Only a well-timed Deep Freeze can effectively keep her from healing herself.

Lord Erebus
    Verrrry dangerous. An Erebus who buys items (instead of minions) will be able to rush you quickly with Bat Swarm, keep himself alive with Bite, slow and chase you down. He can also escape using Bat Swarm. My advice is to bring a friend, and try to lock Erebus's abilities with Deep Freeze.

7. END GAME
    This section is dedicated to dealing with very drawn-out games. In a long game, the leveling advantage that TB often enjoys will be gone once everyone hits level 20. Stat-dependent heroes (Reg, UB, Oak, Sedna) begin to do a lot of damage and often become very hard to kill due to lifesteal. Ability-dependent heroes (TB, Rook, QoT, Erebus) begin to weaken as their abilities do not scale after level 20.
    Therefore, once you hit level 20, end the game ASAP. A well-played TB with this build will always be the first DG in-game to hit level 20. At this point, your power over the other demigods is at its peak. After this, they will continue to level, but you will not. Your relative power will decline over time from here on. Therefore, now is the time to use your power to end the game, before your opponents become too strong.
    Sometimes you cannot end the game before everyone reaches level 20. Here are some general tips for how to change TB's playstyle for a difficult endgame.

If you are winning:
* Buy creep upgrades. Help your team win by pushing the enemy base.
* Destroy enemy towers with spells. TB can be a siege machine.
* Run around and cap every flag. Let your team handle the enemy DGs.
* Stay in the back. Allow your teammates to "tank" by hiding behind them if the enemy tries to rush you. Continue to rain destruction on your enemies' base from your protected position.

If you are losing:
* Buy creep upgrades. This one is always important; spending that 10k on Catapultasaurii & Giants can sometimes be far more effective in defending your base than buying one artifact.
* Focus on destroying invading creeps. Let your team deal with tougher DGs; help them out with Fireball.
* Rain of Ice and Deep Freeze can work very well at shutting down enemies, especially when you have an ally.
* Definitely stay in the back. Hide behind your allies, the citadel, towers, your health fountain, whatever it takes.

8. FINAL NOTES
This build of TB excels at farming money and experience quickly. It generates a mid-game advantage that has successfully won many games for me. My win percentage is near 80% with this build (despite what the online stats may say - they are very bugged). Its end-game weakness (due to the lack of Frost Nova) is countered by better items and creeps - double the creeps instantly killed equals double the money. I have employed this build to great success against many different teams. Try it; I don't think you'll be disappointed.

About switching forms - do it often. I switch forms 2 or 3 times every fight against enemy DGs. I do it even when enemy DGs aren't around. The 50% damage bonus is critical, 50% mana regen is nothing to sneeze at either, and I need access to all of my spells to be effective with this build. Switch to fire, cast spells, switch to frost, cast more spells, attack, wait for cooldowns, switch back, repeat. Don't be afraid to switch forms in combat - switching to frost form in particular only takes 0.5 sec. This makes switching forms to chase or run very effective.

On skills not chosen:

Permafrost vs. Frost Nova

While Frost Nova is very good (and I agonize over not taking it), I find that the passive bonus from Permafrost is better, simply because it gives me some way to kill enemies while all my abilities are on cooldown. Even if I am completely out of mana, Permafrost allows me to chase enemies or run from them. Frost Nova depends on Deep Freeze to do damage, and does not allow me to chase the enemy indefinitely.

Fire Nova vs. Frost Nova

Frost Nova stuns the enemy and, with Deep Freeze, does 850 damage. It also freezes all the enemy creeps. However, after Frost Nova is over, the enemy's creeps are free to continue attacking you. Fire Nova has the advantage of instantly killing all the enemy creeps and damaging the enemy. This leaves them *in the long term of the fight* weaker than Frost Nova, which allows the creeps to live.

Fire Nova vs. Circle of Fire

Circle of Fire is good only against melee characters. Against ranged characters (for example another TB) they will just sit at the edge of the circle and pelt you with spells. Circle of Fire also does damage over time, so it cannot be used to kill enemy demigods, because they can simply run out of the circle. Usually, you will get 2 or 3 ticks of Circle of Fire before the enemy runs out of it. As before, Fire Nova has the advantage of doing damage instantly. This makes it more efficient in terms of actual damage dealt to the enemy demigod.

Locked Post +4 Karma

Advanced Search

Watch this post

Do not email me updates for this post Email me updates for this post

Successfully updated karma reason!

Zida
the_iron_troll
Euandros
Mike850

Nice build, i will have to give this a try. Tho personally i would go Wand of Speed before Boots of Speed and only get the boots if i have problems with speed. I find the cost/speed of the boots not really worth it.

Secondly i'm wondering what favor item you are using with this, maby staff of renewal could be nice. Personally im going to try this with Blade of the Serpent and then neglect all the mana items in your guide (crown, hol and scaled helm) and replace with;

Banded armor + heal pot + tele scroll
Wand of speed
Whatever depending on the coarse of the game.

Also i don't like your starter items, but i think that is a matter of personal taste. I always go with the 550g helm or armor + pot + scroll. This way if you manage to get pushed out of your lane you have minimal downtime. It can be a bit more expensive tho, but i think the low downtime makes up for that, especially on large maps.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Interesting approach. I wonder, though, if it wouldn't be a wiser choice to leave frost aura and take frost nova? For me, it would be kind of personal preference, but I don't know if you've experimented with an alternate build to this that would incorporate it. The closest I've ever done to this build is replacing fire nova with frost nova, but that's not exactly the direction you're taking here.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Hey, thank you very much, i willl certainly try this one out.

But how would you think about spending 3 points in circle of fire instead of fire nova? I personally think it's a pretty effective skill for keeping enemies at a distance which is very important for tb. you could initiate fight with circle of fire retreat to the edge of it and cast a fireball, then switch to frost and cast spells, then autoattack a bit, switch back to fire, cast circle and so on...

How about it?

Successfully updated karma reason!

Sign Up or Login and this ad disappears!
There are many great features available to you once you register. Sign Up for a free account and browse the forums without ads.

@drasked: Wand of Speed is better than Boots of Speed, and I do usually get it first. I have swapped their positions in the list. I go with Swift Anklet for favor. I am of the opinion that move speed is the single best stat. Consider it this way: Blade of the Serpent's mana regen can be replaced by a number of things from the regular shop. However, the 15% movespeed bonus from Swift Anklet cannot be achieved anywhere else - it is a huge bonus that overshadows Boots of Speed. The point is that with all 3 stacked, I can get 25+10+15=50% move speed increase, which stacked with Permafrost means I can outchase or outrun anyone.

@PheonixBomb and goldmull: Check my new final notes on skills not chosen.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting muusbolla,

reply 4

Makes sense, there are some more movement speed items, like journeyman threads and the cape from the luxury store, might be lethal if you stack all those speed items in combination with the slow aura. Worth a try for laughs at least. I read somewhere movement speed is capped at 14 tho.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I would love to try this, normally just play fire TB. I should also like to experiment with the skills you did not choose in different combinations.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Really nice build I'm playing with it right now. Lots of AOE Damage and high damage. I like it more than pure fire.

Bravo...

Successfully updated karma reason!

I updated the item build to reflect my new opinion that creep upgrades > artifacts for TB. Additionally changed to Vlemish Faceguard as per Warskullx's post (http://forums.demigodthegame.com/352369). Added notes on capture locks.

Also, shameless bump.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I've been an avid and fairly skilled (VIP dota-league level) DotA player and just started playing DG. Using this guide I have won the last three or so games with ease, farming extremely efficiently and having a fun time of it, although my chasing needs some practice. Thanks for the guide.

Successfully updated karma reason!

doesn't this build struggle with mana until it gets a HoL? just not seeing how you can survive the early game without downing a ton of mana pots and thus further delaying buying a HoL.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I managed to do pretty well using this build, but we still lost because of a foul-mouth/team blaming erebus player who believed that a pure mist build was the best build ever.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting transitive,

reply 10

doesn't this build struggle with mana until it gets a HoL? just not seeing how you can survive the early game without downing a ton of mana pots and thus further delaying buying a HoL.

What other build would not struggle with mana? The truth is that TB is a mana-dependent hero. Additionally, the purchase of two helmets as listed does a lot to help out with TB's mana pool and regen.

Additionally, since this build is more damage-per-mana efficient than any other TB build (all skills do instant direct damage, so 100% of it is guaranteed to be dealt, versus Circle of Fire and Frost Nova who depend on situation to do full damage) I find that I struggle with mana very little.

I just try to make sure that every spell I cast hits both creeps AND the enemy DG. Efficiency ftw.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Deep Freeze is an interrupt. I'd get that earlier, probably at lv6 instead of Fire Nova.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting falcoBoat,

reply 9

Additionally to what was mentioned above, with constantly shifting between fire and ice modes, your mana does regen faster than a TB that just sticks in one mode.

At anyrate, I'm a big fan of this build, with small, slight variations. I tend to get Fireball first, as it is usually enough to chase off lone enemy DGs, so I can stay in my lane harvesting creeps more. Plus, lvl 1 Ice Rain isnt enough to kill creeps outright.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Truthfully i think you possibly could switch out the wand of speed or flag capture (depending on how the game is going) and use a cloak of fire if you have the money. Adding another 800 damage and making the enemy think you have circle of fire can be a very great intimidation factor. Plus keeping other demigods at range and running (not attacking) would be great for fragile torchbearer. That or if you needed i'd also switch the boots of speed for groffeling warplate. Again if you have the money ONLY and if you have no problem with any running demis.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I'm liking this, but I'd probably put deep freeze in when you get the second level of permafrost; deep freze is really useful against somebody with clearly telegraphed attacks (Erebus's stun, anybody?) The second level of Permafrost, though nice, is not as key to victory.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I'm going to have to play around with TB before I come to a conclusion, but it seems to me that Fire & Ice is just better than Fire Nova or upgraded Permafrost. I'd rush for Biting Chill and Fire & Ice.

Your AoE needs should be mostly satisfied by Rain of Ice, and taking Fire Nova is basically just to have another button to hit to do massive damage to things, and for very late game when minions have more than 800 HP. That can be put off until post lvl 15. I haven't done any testing with Permafrost, but I imagine that 1 lvl would be fine until post 15 as well.

And of Fire Nova vs. Permafrost, I would think that the Novas would take the field. Again, I don't have any numbers on Permafrost, but with all of the shifting that a Hybrid TB does, I wouldn't value it very highly.

In fact, I would strongly consider getting 3 lvls of Enh. Att. instead of any Permafrost. Maybe I just don't like taking things that I don't have numbers for, I dunno.

Successfully updated karma reason!

okay, i've been playing hybrid torch bearer a lot since my last post now and i must say that he ROCKS LIKE HELL. it is now by far my favorite playstyle for tb and tb himself is now my favorite demigod. i just love the versatility you have with choosing the skills in adaption to the course of the game or the game mode or the enemies! the big amount of skills just allows many different strategies.

from the experience i've gathered until now i can say the following:

Fire Nova: i also always rather take it late game in dependance of the game, rain of ice is mostly enough AoE, but if massive creep waves are runnig towards your citadel you should spend some points in fire nova and in rain of ice rather than any other skills and take the defensive part. it will keep your level and citadel up. you could as well exchange fire nova for circle of fire if you intend to use it wholely on creeps cause enemy DGs are just not dumb enough to stay inside or walk into your circle. (unless you have frost nova, those two make an excellent combination )

permafrost: very important most games. but again it depends on your enemies. clearly it's needed more against a team of ub and sedna for instance than against... let's say rook and oak. can't say anything precise here. i really just skill it depending on if i need it. it's important to realize that. okay, i ->always<- get permafrost lvl 1 on lvl 3, but after that i just dynamically adapt. in average i'd say i get lvl2 early midgame and lvl 3 late midgame (or sometimes no lvl 3 at all). it's just essential to slow your fleeing enemy down after spellspamming him into panic and chasing him with fire-buffed ice attacks. that's really big damage considering range and attack speed (quite fast) while running.

deep freeze: lvl 1 is important and should be taken early! every demigod has an ability that can be interrupted or may use an item. consider that it is a far ranged, instantly cast, instantly arriving and low mana cost interrupt. who else has that? it pwnz! after lvl 1 you can wait quite a bit until you level further. when you have fireball lvl3 you should start considering "symbiotically" leveling deep freeze to gain fire and ice for endgame. also it increases cooldown. use it right after sedna heals herself or QoT bramble shields to weaken them, though im not really sure about the exact cooldown increasing mechanics, but what is important is that if you face one of these two consider leveling it up early.

enh. attr.: don't take it. with a hybrid build you need each and every point in your skills.

for permafrost vs fire nova: permafrost clearly. it is the skill which grants you the kills rather than fire nova. slow enemies are dead enemies...

oh and one thing about biting chill: i don't always take it as soon as i'm lvl 15. the course of the game might push you to priorize different skills. you don't always have to max out everything!

frost nova: good ability. use it if needed, nothing more to say...i'd recommend to skill it high against minion builds or tower rooks, makes them just useless..ahhaha

fire aura: i never use it, so i just can't say anything useful about it. it just doesn't attract me...

closingly the thing which i think makes a hybrid much more effective than a speacialized build is obviously the shifting boni. they make a big difference, don't underestimate them. keep them up all the time.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Better hybrid TB: Rain of ice, Shatter, Fireball, repeat until level 10, 11 and 12 Ice Nova, 13 and 14 Fireball/Shatter, 15 Fire and Ice, 16 Rain of Ice fully upgraded, and then go for permafrost. Rain of Ice is all you need for AoE, Frost Nova allows you to stun towers and the shattering does more than fire nova (plus stuns are always nice), so I find that build works out well.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I do this same build except I end with nova, the reason simply being that I find shattering more useful in a high level game and enjoy the stun/speed debuff on top of the additional dmg.

But yes, playing this way really brings out TBs potential and lets him unleash a huge amount of unmitigated spell fury. And thats in addition to being nearly untouchable.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I'm a pretty new player, and I've been trying to find what character suits me. I played a mage (Frost PvP, of course) in WoW and an Elementalist (mainly Fire, sometimes Earth) in Guild Wars. In Demigod I wanted a change. I put off playing Torchy because I was tired of being squishy, but when I saw your guide with the constant switching between forms and gaining bonuses from doing so, I just had to try it out. In my first online match, I was the best player by far. I felt truly pro. =P Thanks for the great guide.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I've used a Hybrid build for a while. Before I would just go Rain of Ice, Fireball, Deep Freeze untill I get Fire and Ice. Then I'd dump the rest of my points into Ring of Fire er something.

I tired your setup, utilizing Permafrost and Fire Nova a little early, and I have to say I'm doing worse. Mostly because I don't seem to notice Permafrost doing anything. When I get it, my opponenets are still running me down or getting away from me. And the slower attack speed is not making a noticble difference on how fast the Demigods kill me. Maybe everyone I fight stackes tons of Speed boost items...I'm not sure.

I guess overall I've always had trouble fitting the Passive buff aruras into a Hybrid build effectively. Maybe Perfmafrost got bugged since the last patch?!

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Connatic,

reply 22

I've used a Hybrid build for a while. Before I would just go Rain of Ice, Fireball, Deep Freeze untill I get Fire and Ice. Then I'd dump the rest of my points into Ring of Fire er something.

I tired your setup, utilizing Permafrost and Fire Nova a little early, and I have to say I'm doing worse. Mostly because I don't seem to notice Permafrost doing anything. When I get it, my opponenets are still running me down or getting away from me. And the slower attack speed is not making a noticble difference on how fast the Demigods kill me. Maybe everyone I fight stackes tons of Speed boost items...I'm not sure.

I guess overall I've always had trouble fitting the Passive buff aruras into a Hybrid build effectively. Maybe Perfmafrost got bugged since the last patch?!

Well, the reason that you're doing a little worse with this build against DGs is that you're missing your anti-DG measures (Ring of Fire and high level Deep Freeze early on). This build's made to farm as much money as possible and cap flags quickly. You're not anti-DG at all. You can fight DG's (especially with help) fairly well due to you generally out-leveling them, but you'll be strategically retreating more often than a more anti-DG build.

Try to follow this order:

1. Help any ally DG's in need of immediate assistance. (This is almost always number one for any DG, any build)

2. Cap Open Flags, especially ones with enemy creeps surrounding them.

3. Lock flags that you think the enemy will soon attempt to take.

4. Go after DGs with low health for a quick Fire Nova>Fireball kill, but DO NOT OVEREXTEND YOURSELF and make sure you aren't running into a big fat trap.

5. Kill big creep waves with a quick Rain of Ice or Fire Nova.

TLDR: This build is designed to cap flags and farm easily, not demolish opposing DGs; however, it is fairly flexible against DGs once you obtain Deep Freeze and a decent level of Permafrost.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I do a slightly different build, going for Frost Nova rather than Deep Freeze, with only one point in Deep Freeze for interrupts. I find that Frost Nova really helps towards end-game, especially against stronger creeps.

The permafrost really helps, allowing me to run away from chasing melee DGs, or catch up to them if I need to finish them off with autoattacks (or slowing them down for allies to get to them). With UB, you have to run before they hit you, however, or else Diseased Claws will slow you down and negate the speed advantage you would otherwise have.

Successfully updated karma reason!

ive been playing TB almost exclusively since mid may. I've won significantly more than i lost.

I only use pure fire builds.

i tried this one and found it seriously lacks the damage and consistency of a pure fire build. and if youre not doing damage, whats the point of being there.

Successfully updated karma reason!