Just make the 'placehold' a part of the captionbar graphics.
Then it'll always be visible.

(Hope I understood the problem correct)

yes, I kind of know about this one, what I was wondering is how to add extra buttons/images that are used just for fluff. If you have time and want to, take a look at tiggs Kay2 (if I write it as , I get this) blind and the various buttons he has in addition to the close/max/min/restore/help buttons. just wanting to expand my abilities here. thanks for helping.

if you are using UIS 2 frames you can add buttons, with pre made functions.. You can also add buttons on pp frames.

Its under "Edit Titlebars and WindowFrames" then under "Edit PerPixel buttons" or "Edit UIS2 frames".

Or as snowman said if it isnt supposed to have a function just "paint" it on the frame gfx's.

That section (in your screenshot) is the section for the UIS2 caption buttons. Per pixel frames in most cases override UIS2 frames. So if you have skinned the per pixel frames/buttons, you won't see the UIS2 frames/buttons. That is to say; very few applications make use of non per pixel windows.

Does that make sense?

per pixel buttons are specificly for the perpixel frames, and your frames will have no buttons if they arent done.

are you asking if yr uis buttons can be png? if so.....yes of course.

but if your talking about pp buttons in general in relation to the pp frames.......they have to be done together, and besides, most frames are pp, not uis, so to not have them is a bit short changing, if you know what i mean.

you also lose dropshadowing and antialiasing without per pixel frames.

and translucency. but the most important thing is no jaggy edges, hate that jaggy edges