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Z71
messiah1
Join Date 10/2005
+434
Reply #101 November 16, 2007 2:41:04 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
For the record, there exists no special promotional relationship between WinCustomize and MaxStyles. The fact that often MaxStyles skins are featured is because 1) They're on WinCustomize and Free 2) They're good.
What they're doing is tossing out a lot of high-quality stuff that draws folks to their site indirectly. For example, I wouldn't consider the mass of Harmony related skins to be spam since they're skins. They're free. They're good. They just happen to be centered around a for-pay skin. Spam? Not really. A brilliant way to market a skin? absolutely. But it works because in the end the community is getting a lot of value without ever actually having to purchase anything.


(I quoted the whole thing for the overall context but the bold is what I'm driving here.)

And this is the terrific thing about the community. You can get a lot for little to nothing. I stick a MaxStyles logo in the skins I create for MaxStyles crew members and post a link to the site in the description. Is that wrong? Plenty of folks do the same and have been for a long time...take for example Arnaez. But I'm not saying, "Here's my new skin, go get it at MaxStyles" I feel that would be somewhat disrespectful to WC. I've enjoyed reading this post and it's been a very thought provoking one indeed.



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Z71
NightTrainthedark
Join Date 07/2003
+255
Reply #102 November 16, 2007 3:31:50 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Branding and self promoting in the forums are completely different things.
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Z71
Phoon
Join Date 10/2001
+382
Reply #103 November 16, 2007 3:36:03 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
There's nothing wrong with advertising, but there's a time and place and I don't believe this messageboard is it.


A noble thought, provided it applies to EVERYONE. That means TSF and other major players cannot advertise their latest and greatest. You cannot pick and choose who you allow to advertise ( unless of course someone is paying for the ad space ).

Honestly, I think think a mountain is being made out of a mole-hill on this. It has never really been a big deal in the past. THIS instance was not a big deal either.
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Z71
Zoomba
Join Date 11/2002
+114
Reply #104 November 16, 2007 3:40:41 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Phoon,

You're right.  This instance wasn't really a big deal, it just happened to touch off a conversation that was finally ready to happen.  It would have happened pretty soon anyway

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Z71
NightTrainthedark
Join Date 07/2003
+255
Reply #105 November 16, 2007 3:49:25 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
It will be a big deal when you see what happens if the door is open. People will resort to low down dirty tactics to sell and compete. Remember that I am not talkin about Wincustomizes Master Skinners. I am talking about self professed Masters that would try to sell their premium *cough* quality skins offsite.

If the door stays closed then we all continue on as usual.
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Z71
Phoon
Join Date 10/2001
+382
Reply #106 November 16, 2007 4:02:50 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
It will be a big deal when you see what happens if the door is open. People will resort to low down dirty tactics to sell and compete. Remember that I am not talkin about Wincustomizes Master Skinners. I am talking about self professed Masters that would try to sell their premium *cough* quality skins offsite.


It happens already. It's not rampant however.
I see where your're coming from though. We don't want to see it get to that point, thus the need for the proactive discussion.
Looking at it from that aspect, I would say no to ads in the forums and joe user provided that the policy applies to all equally. I can't stress that enough because this site has never been noted for it's equal treatment of people.

Where do you draw the line though? If you ban them exclusively from the forums they will try to sneak in with skin descriptions, screenshots, screenshots of ads, watermarks in walls etc.
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Z71
unclerob
Join Date 08/2006
+40
Reply #107 November 16, 2007 4:16:25 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
talking about self professed Masters that would try to sell their premium *cough* quality skins offsite.


care to pm me an example if you have time?
- this topic is so interesting I'd love to see some of this.
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Z71
Vampothika
Join Date 07/2006
+590
Reply #108 November 16, 2007 4:27:02 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
do my homework? sorry, i didnt realize things hand changed so much since i left, people were getting paid back then......I know, i used to work for you, you recruited me. In the harmony suit, someone asked could they contribute to the skin and you replied "no, I have such and such that does that by maxstyles."

hence my question about its more of a maxstyles skin than a community one, and the confusion over a 'community skin'.......if it was a community skin then that person would have been alowed to skin something.......yeah?.......

Im not trying to make you out to be the bad guy, I did state dont take it personal cause it aint about you personally, its about asking whether maxstyles skin should be named a community skin when other people cannot contribute, only the staff from maxstyles can.
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Z71
ZubaZ
Join Date 11/2001
+917
Reply #109 November 16, 2007 4:32:23 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Kitty, Zoomba has asked that we keep this thread on topic. It's not about dA or Maxstyles or Z21's site. While I'm all for tangents in most cases, I'd suggest we stay on target. 

Your example is more specific than this thread and should be taken to another if you want to pursue it.

I appreciate everyone's understanding and want the dialog to continue and not get sidetracked.  Thanks!
 
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Z71
NightTrainthedark
Join Date 07/2003
+255
Reply #110 November 16, 2007 4:33:52 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
its about asking whether maxstyles skin should be named a community skin when other people cannot contribute, only the staff from maxstyles can.


It's not a community skin in this case. It is a corporate sponsored skin.

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Z71
messiah1
Join Date 10/2005
+434
Reply #111 November 16, 2007 4:42:23 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
its about asking whether maxstyles skin should be named a community skin when other people cannot contribute, only the staff from maxstyles can.


pixel-z isn't a member of MaxStyles, bilbo wasn't a member of MaxStyles, PuterDudeJim isn't a member of MaxStyles...those folks contributed to Harmony.   

EDIT

Whoops, Zubaz say stay on target. That were off target. So sorry...  
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Z71
vStyler
Join Date 11/2004
+919
Reply #112 November 16, 2007 4:45:27 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Kitty if you will read back I said we have an official skinner of that app but i am not opposed to you making a skin... Regardless.. the option to grant permission to any skinner to port any of my skins to another remains mine whether it be a pay skin or not, again.. this has no bearing on this discussion. Also, you never worked for me. You were never paid, I merely offered you an opportunity to be part of a team and help you improve your skills. The ONLY payments ever made by me to anyone on my site are for artists premium skins sales.
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Z71
Vampothika
Join Date 07/2006
+590
Reply #113 November 16, 2007 4:50:15 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I am on the topic, here is a perfect example

remember the "community' halloween skin? of course we all do. so how did that start?
with a post by avman, asking skinners to participate if they wish. and that happened.

my question is , why is maxstyles skins tagged as 'community skins' ? where is the post to advertise for skinners to help on harmony? or whitefire? there isnt any, its a maxstyles skin, thats why.

I am asking, why is it named a community skin, when people of the community (besides maxstyles team) cannot participate?

Its a legitimate question concerning the topic, it confuses people.....seriously.

I personally think its cross advertisting. I dont have anything against maxstyles, i never will, they make great stuff with a talented bunch of guys.
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Z71
NightTrainthedark
Join Date 07/2003
+255
Reply #114 November 16, 2007 4:50:34 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Where do you draw the line though? If you ban them exclusively from the forums they will try to sneak in with skin descriptions, screenshots, screenshots of ads, watermarks in walls etc.


I suppose that is what the moderators have to watch for. If someone does something over the top, they will be called out. They have in the past and things normally worked out for the common good.

Allowing anyone to promote work in the forums is an easy thing to keep tabs on. Simpy don't allow it from anyone... except the Admin. If they feel something is worthy of attention , then they will post it.

Look at post # 100. Hypothetically, Leo the Lions original post could have been made on behalf of D Arnez..... Psst. Hey Leo, do me a favor and make a post at WC about how much you liked the icons you bought off of my site. THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE OF TACTICS TO WATCH OUT FOR. I AM NOT SAYING THAT IS WHAT LEO DID. IT IS HYPOTHETICAL.
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Z71
vStyler
Join Date 11/2004
+919
Reply #115 November 16, 2007 4:56:38 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I am asking, why is it named a community skin


Its for the community.
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Z71
messiah1
Join Date 10/2005
+434
Reply #116 November 16, 2007 4:57:09 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I am asking, why is it named a community skin


It's by members of the community.
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Z71
Vampothika
Join Date 07/2006
+590
Reply #117 November 16, 2007 4:59:48 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Okay John, I didnt work for you....I dont know who runs maxstyles......okay? its all some mystycial magik enignma to me now. Did you tell that person who wanted to skin something that it could possibly be looked at by you, and you might include it in the skin? No, i only saw, "no, we have a skinner who does that" ......in other words, bug off, its covered. You are only interested in recruiting, if there is some major part of skinning that isnt covered, so your suit is complete......hey im being honest here, not mean, so accept it. I saw what happened.......

this is besides the point. Someone please answer the "community tag' question........
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Z71
Vampothika
Join Date 07/2006
+590
Reply #118 November 16, 2007 5:03:56 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
where is the post to ask the community to skin it? there isnt one. its a maxstyles skin ......

hello?
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Z71
NightTrainthedark
Join Date 07/2003
+255
Reply #119 November 16, 2007 5:06:24 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
kitty. please start a new thread about the issue before the parents show up and make us pack up our toys and go to bed.
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Z71
vStyler
Join Date 11/2004
+919
Reply #120 November 16, 2007 5:07:42 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
No, i only saw, "no, we have a skinner who does that" ......in other words, bug off, its covered.


You saw what u wanted to see apparently. Boils down to this.. I surrounded myself with people I could trust to do quality work. If it is an official Maxstyles skin.. it will be a skin of quality.. done by an official skinner. I havent once labelled any of our suites a "community" skin as far as I know Zoomba did that in his articles.. why are you getting so bent out of shape? I run a business and as such I think I retain to the right to dcline or offer up permissions as I see fit and again... what does this have to do with this thread?
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Z71
NightTrainthedark
Join Date 07/2003
+255
Reply #121 November 16, 2007 5:09:06 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
John. please start a new thread about the issue before the parents show up and make us pack up our toys and go to bed.     

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Z71
vStyler
Join Date 11/2004
+919
Reply #122 November 16, 2007 5:11:03 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I give up.. lol. I sense resentment, not gonna argue with that... Kitty I did my very best to help you further yourself, If you hold that against me Im sorry.
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Z71
Vampothika
Join Date 07/2006
+590
Reply #123 November 16, 2007 5:11:05 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I find it very strange how these community skins 'suddenly appear' the community dosent know about it until its released. (thats NOT a community skin) its by maxstyles team and selected, secret few, not community

Id like the stardock admin to answer this.
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Z71
Vampothika
Join Date 07/2006
+590
Reply #124 November 16, 2007 5:15:15 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Johnny, I dont hold resenment my dear, far from it, i still use your skins as templates for alot of my work because you are a stickler for detail and have a hawk eye for errors..........

I am asking the staff not you why its called a community skin when its cleary a maxstyles skin.

I also stated at the start that its not personal against you. And it still isnt.

the topic is still about advertising...........
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Z71
Quentin94
Join Date 08/2006
+119
Reply #125 November 16, 2007 5:21:57 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
if there is some major part of skinning that isnt covered, so your suit is complete


why he never ask me


'well back to serious mode'

Kitty please keep the topic in mind, it's not only about maxstyles it's about master skinners and their sites...
Moreover, Zoomba answer this question before in this tread:

For the record, there exists no special promotional relationship between WinCustomize and MaxStyles. The fact that often MaxStyles skins are featured is because 1) They're on WinCustomize and Free 2) They're good.
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