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@ KarmaGirl:

Do you mind explaining why you've completely failed to address my point that there are company(ies) and individual(s) out there whom i do/don't pay for software, but they are still more dedicated and more customer focused than you are?

@ Zubas:

My apologies, I've confused you with Seabass. It's all very well saying that you don't set timelines and that demanding is the way to go. However, there is such thing as reasonable period of time when it comes to updates especially in the light of bug reports and unless you complain and, therefore, demand then things have a history of not being taken care of.

Your point about not supporting product/service/company doesn't hit bullseye. Who leaves happy after that? Nobody. Do things more forward after that? No, they don't. It's a no-win proposition.

As far as my complain about the delivery system goes, let me tell you something. Even Seabass in another thread here warned that Impulse is still in a beta stage and is only supposed to be used at your own risk. It's enough that the alpha is at our own risk but the delivery system as well?

Let's get something straight here, these updates aren't optional and they aren't free. They aren't optional because I have a right to use software that works 100%, which means it's Starock's job to make sure that it does. They aren't free because I've paid for OD+ version 1.x and as such I've paid for any updates that are released for version 1.x before it hits the 2.x release point. Let's not kid ourselves about this, Stardock doesn't have the work policy like Google where people can use 20% of their time on whatever they want. This means that this update took up developers' time, which isn't free. As far as I'm concerned, the only thing that's free is cheese in a mousetrap.

The feeling I'm getting with Impulse is that somebody in Starock who made the decision to put the alpha build exclusively on Impulse thought the following: "Look, many people have found bugs with OD so we better fix them. We fixed some bugs but because we have this super duper nevermind-that-it's-unstable new delivery system, we'll use the update as bait to lure people over. So if people want to get what they paid for then they've got no choice but to download it using Impulse" In not so many words that's blackmail. Is it really so difficult to put it on SDC as well while you're ironing out the problems with Impulse?

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You know, I run OD+ every single day. With no problems. I have had no problems out of Impulse since I downloaded it. Updates? No problem... I just click the update button. In fact, Impulse works so well that I haven't opened SDC since installing Impulse.

Oh, and as much right as you have to use software that works 100%, you also have the right NOT use it too. If you're that unhappy with SD, don't renew. Christ, you act like SD OWES you betas that work perfectly and updates once a week. Guess what? They don't. You purchased the software and got it. If you paid any attention to the SD website, or looked at what you were paying for, you would have noticed that some of it is beta. All they owe you is what you got. If they update, that's their right. If not...that's their right too.

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back to the original question about object dock,
the start menu thing seems to be working without issue now, but the free version still has a habit of dissapearing randomly and needing to be restarted.
aside from that, for a free product, it works amazingly well and without any of the crap other companies usually add to their "free" products. (adware spyware)

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You know, I run OD+ every single day. With no problems. I have had no problems out of Impulse since I downloaded it. Updates? No problem... I just click the update button. In fact, Impulse works so well that I haven't opened SDC since installing Impulse.Oh, and as much right as you have to use software that works 100%, you also have the right NOT use it too. If you're that unhappy with SD, don't renew. Christ, you act like SD OWES you betas that work perfectly and updates once a week. Guess what? They don't. You purchased the software and got it. If you paid any attention to the SD website, or looked at what you were paying for, you would have noticed that some of it is beta. All they owe you is what you got. If they update, that's their right. If not...that's their right too.

What you said is a good one for April Fool's Day joke try.

It's very well known that while some people don't have any problems, others have. Just look at other threads here. No problems with Impulse? Fine if you don't have probs but look in Impulse section and you'll see that some people have. Technically, you can't have both SDC and Impulse. You have to uninstall one before installing the other.

Why would I exercise my right not to use the software for which I paid? Doesn't make any sense to me...The whole approach of "don't like it? don't renew" is flawed because it leaves no one satisfied and happy with what happened. SD doesn't owe me betas that work perfectly simply because betas, by definition, aren't supposed to work perfectly. I'm also not saying that I expect updates once a week, but not even almost once a year? That takes the biscuit. They do owe it to me to make sure that software that I bought works 100%, no one can argue with that. As such, to update to remove bugs isn't their right, it's their obligation.

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Technically, you can't have both SDC and Impulse. You have to uninstall one before installing the other.

Actually iVan, I went on SD irc and asked to be sure. As long as Impulse is in beta, you can still use SDC. And for the updates.... SD is going to update the most popular software first. Unfortunately, that does mean some of my personal favorites (as well as yours) are going to be pushed lower on the update list. But SD is a company and they have to do what's best for them.......

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[quote]Technically, you can't have both SDC and Impulse. You have to uninstall one before installing the other.Actually iVan, I went on SD irc and asked to be sure. As long as Impulse is in beta, you can still use SDC. And for the updates.... SD is going to update the most popular software first. Unfortunately, that does mean some of my personal favorites (as well as yours) are going to be pushed lower on the update list.

This in no way changes the fact that SDC is still more widely deployed software delivery system. Well, OD is 4th most popular software from Stardock (let's not call ObjectDesktop software, it's a bundle subscription) and it makes me feel mad that if the product I use just missed on the bronze medal in terms of software doesn't get a stable update in almost a year.

But SD is a company and they have to do what's best for them.......

That's a very selfish attitude and, while they are in business to make money, it would also be nice for them to care more.

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whine moan piss n complain

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KarmaGirl

Join Date 03/2001

+118

Do you mind explaining why you've completely failed to address my point that there are company(ies) and individual(s) out there whom i do/don't pay for software, but they are still more dedicated and more customer focused than you are?

Well, when it comes right down to it, I really don't care how you perceive our company compared to other companies. All you have done is complain that you don't like the delivery system for the alpha. Yep, we get that you like to beat a dead horse. Understand this: you are the only one complaining about this. We're not changing because one person has an issue.

So, you're going nowhere here. Either you can use the alpha that is available to download, or you don't. That's your decision. If you want to keep complaining, you're just wasting your breath. You bought the product 2 years ago. You spent $20 TWO years ago. You got what you paid for TWO years ago. There is a new version that you could download for free right now, but you won't because all you want to do is complain about the delivery method and us not providing as many updates as you assume we should provide. You're not going to get what you want. End of story.

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DorkCoffeez

Join Date 03/2006

+115

As far as my complain about the delivery system goes, let me tell you something. Even Seabass in another thread here warned that Impulse is still in a beta stage and is only supposed to be used at your own risk. It's enough that the alpha is at our own risk but the delivery system as well?

It is as simple as that though. These are betas and we let you use them. We update our customers with news and with the products we are testing. Our developers listen to the customers over months of testing and developing sometimes, and that means that the product truly comes from the customers as much as it comes from the company.

I have decided that what you are suggesting is just insulting now and lacks in argument or even constructive criticism. More so since the same points have been brought up, answered, and brought up again. You are insulting us because you can't get what you want the way you want it. Updates aside, product features or bugs aside, that is really what this is about.

We are a proactive, positive, and innovative company that is slowly teaching a new way of doing things to a young industry. We are also tackling anything we can get our hands on, not just one thing we specialize in. Even if you don't believe it or are unwilling to I have several hundred thousand people I talk to every day that seem to think otherwise. Several million worldwide. Our current practices are winning an entire computing world over. Thus our strategies are working, and the customers are happy.

To make that point further I will say this honestly. I look forward to assisting you in any way that support can provide in the future.

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ZubaZ

Join Date 11/2001

+917

ZubaZ huggles seabass

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ZubaZ

Join Date 11/2001

+917

. . and KarmaGirl

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Well, when it comes right down to it, I really don't care how you perceive our company compared to other companies.

I'm sorry, but that's truly pathetic. You allowed yourself to say that Stardock is better than most companies so it's only fair that I'm allowed to question that by drawing comparisons to other companies and making conclusions from that.

All you have done is complain that you don't like the delivery system for the alpha.

That it not true and you know it. I have complained about the following:

1. Lack of information about progress and development
2. Lack of stable updates
3. Lack of alphas/betas
4. Lack of proactive feedback from developers to beta testers.
5. Lack of common sense in making the alpha available on least deployed software delivery system.

Need I continue with the list?

Understand this: you are the only one complaining about this

Yet, I'm not the only one complaining about Impulse. Would you like me to provide you with the link to the forum where people have expressed their views about how bad it is?

You bought the product 2 years ago. You spent $20 TWO years ago. You got what you paid for TWO years ago....as many updates as you assume we should provide

Excuse me, but I fail to see how this changes anything. As far as I know, there's no statute of limitation on how long you have the license for OD, especially considering that we're still in the 1.x phase. And I don't assume, I expect software that I bought to work 100%, that's my right to expect and your obligation to make sure.

These are betas and we let you use them. We update our customers with news and with the products we are testing. Our developers listen to the customers over months of testing and developing

You're making it sound that by providing betas you're doing us a favour. That's a flawed way of thinking because if betas provide fixes to existing bugs, and they normally do, then it's your obligation to provide them. You say that you provide your customers with the news? What news have there been since 1.9 was released at the end of April last year? Peanuts of information and only when we ask first. Your developers might be listening but why don't they respond? Where's the feedback that would encourage a proactive relationship between beta testers and devs? It's nowhere.

You are insulting us because you can't get what you want the way you want it

You might not be aware of an expression, but if you are then let me refresh your memory: "He who pays the piper calls the tune". As such, it's quite within my right to demand any of the aforementioned points.

Even if you don't believe it or are unwilling to I have several hundred thousand people I talk to every day that seem to think otherwise. Several million worldwide. Our current practices are winning an entire computing world over. Thus our strategies are working, and the customers are happy.

I'm sorry, but that's not really the point. Even a teaspoon of crap in a barrel of honey will make it taste not as sweet, so to speak. It's not about how many people are happy, it's about how you deal with people who aren't happy. Considering that you don't even inform people on OD product page that the Free version won't be updated as often as the Plus version, I fail to see how that's a good practice. Once again, we're coming back around to lack of (or unwillingness to share) information.

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Oh my friggin lord could you whine and bitch a lil bit more? Get over yourself!

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Zoomba

Join Date 11/2002

+114

Ivan, you're under the incredibly absurd misconception that you are owed all of this. You purchased a product two years ago, which provided you a working product and we periodically provide feature and bug updates for this program. It is at our discretion what updates to release, when and how to release them. Since the fix you're seeking is technically an alpha patch, the fact that it's available period is out of the ordinary. We could very well only release final, tested patches, in which case you'd be completely out of luck.

You have no reasonable basis to expect frequent alphas or betas. That's not what you paid for. It's what you've decided you're owed, which is another issue entirely.

When there is information on upcoming versions or updated to our software, we're usually the first to shout it from the rooftops.

Our developers are very busy guys, so often it's more important for them to be working on software than it is for them to be on forums. You've been told that your issues have been noted and passed on to the dev team. If you think you are owed a personal response from a developer, you're in need of a reality check.

You might not be aware of an expression, but if you are then let me refresh your memory: "He who pays the piper calls the tune". As such, it's quite within my right to demand any of the aforementioned points.

You're right, our customers set the pace for us. They let us know when we're doing well and when we're not. We do our best to deliver a product that meets their needs and desires (within the scope of a given application). This however does not mean that any single customer has the right to tell us how to do business. A $20 purchase doesn't give you the right to demand things. It gives you a product. We work to update that product periodically, provide patches for issues etc. However YOU do not get to tell US when and how to release a patch. If a patch is ready for prime time, we decide it, not you. If a patch is going to be distributed via Impulse, Stardock Central, or Carrier Pidgeon, it's our call. This isn't us doing you a favor necessarily, it's merely us exercising our own rights as owner and developer of the software.

As to your point about the discrepency in free versus paid versions of the software. If it's free, there is no right to any expectations period. It's free. No money was paid. Nothing is owed in either direction. It is there to give people a taste of what the product is and does. It being a few versions behind the full version doesn't make that huge of a deal.

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Ivan reminds me of the lady at walmart who whines and causes such a scene they give her something to shut her up. he needs to reallize this is not walmart , he isn't going to get his way just because he is loud and causes a scene.

I sometimes wish there was an ignore feature for certain posters who clutter the threads with useless pissing and moaning.

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My expectations of the product that I bought no matter how long ago (as long as there's no time limit or other kind of restriction) is supposed to work 100% is not absurd in the least, it's common sense. While it is at your discretion when and how to provide updates and fixes, it's not at your obligation whether to provide them or not. It's your obligation. I don't mind if you release the final tested patches, but the problem is that you haven't released them yet. When will you walk the walk?

You have no reasonable basis to expect frequent alphas or betas

That is true. However, since alphas/betas are the best way to provide and test a fix to some bug then I believe it's reasonable to expect them considering the number of bugs that have been piling up and their severity.

Our developers are very busy guys, so often it's more important for them to be working on software than it is for them to be on forums.

I don't expect a personal response. However, Jeff B often used to post here. Also, if they are so busy then why in almost a year there hasn't been a single stable update to OD?

A $20 purchase doesn't give you the right to demand things

But why a $20 purchase for WindowBlinds user gave him/her more updates, betas and stable releases in the past year than a $20 purchase of OD+?

If a patch is going to be distributed via Impulse, Stardock Central, or Carrier Pidgeon, it's our call. This isn't us doing you a favor necessarily, it's merely us exercising our own rights as owner and developer of the software

Yes, it is your right to decide how to distribute your software. I'm just questioning the reasoning behind why it was decided to distribute the alpha of OD+ through Impulse without mirroring it to Stardock Central. No one has been able to say why it was decided to put it there and not onto SDC. SDC has a wider installbase, you know it and I know it. So why aren't you trying to reach the wider audience instead of tempting your customers to install Impulse which in itself isn't out of beta yet?

If it's free, there is no right to any expectations period

However, would you not agree that it would be more informative to add such information to the product page? That way people would make a more informed decision and might go for the Plus version straight away, which would result in profit for you.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1845

You have no reasonable basis to expect frequent alphas or betas

That is true. However, since alphas/betas are the best way to provide and test a fix to some bug then I believe it's reasonable to expect them considering the number of bugs that have been piling up and their severity.

iVAN WILDER it's probably wise not to contradict yourself. Either "that is true", or it is untrue.

Whilst you may believe you have an argument based in some sense of merit, comments such as quoted here suggest otherwise....

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Take the hint buddy. I think I have seen what? five Stardock people here say you are off base WWW Link.

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Lantec

Join Date 07/2003

+346

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Jeff is a very busy person as of late. He's lucky if we even unchain him for breaks or to go home. He's actually one of the main devs working on Impulse as well as some other products. So he isn't able to give "timely" updates on forums. Again, we did release an update... in alpha form. You can get it through Impulse. Impulse is continually updated pretty much every day to fix the bugs that are reported in the forums. I have been using it since before it was released to the public, and I don't have any issues. However, everyone's system is different, video cards are different, etc, etc. We can only make so many different combos to test with here at the office, so yes, bugs are going to come up, and yes we are working diligently hard, and OT to get it together. You have to remember that Stardock is NOT a very big company, and not everyone in the company works on software, and many of us have several projects going at a time.

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iVAN WILDER it's probably wise not to contradict yourself. Either "that is true", or it is untrue.

If bugs are there then it's reasonable to expect and demand a fix. Whether they are in a form of a beta or a stable patch doesn't matter to me as long as fixes and updates are released.

Jeff is a very busy person as of late. He's lucky if we even unchain him for breaks or to go home. He's actually one of the main devs working on Impulse as well as some other products. So he isn't able to give "timely" updates on forums. Again, we did release an update... in alpha form. You can get it through Impulse. Impulse is continually updated pretty much every day to fix the bugs that are reported in the forums. I have been using it since before it was released to the public, and I don't have any issues. However, everyone's system is different, video cards are different, etc, etc. We can only make so many different combos to test with here at the office, so yes, bugs are going to come up, and yes we are working diligently hard, and OT to get it together. You have to remember that Stardock is NOT a very big company, and not everyone in the company works on software, and many of us have several projects going at a time

I'm sure that Jeff is busy and I'm glad to hear that. Since developers aren't able to be on forums then why not let support in a bit more so they can inform people here? I'm glad to hear that Impulse is shaping up to be a great product and that you're working out of your skin to make it better. However, this doesn't explain why, while you're ironing out the bugs in Impulse, you aren't able to offer the alpha through SDC as well?

I also appreciate that while Stardock may not be a big company and people have several things on their hands. However, in my opinion, the larger the scope of the company and the wider the audience of customers get the more resources have to be invested to make sure that level of support and feedback to continue progress are of high quality. I'm not telling you how to do your job, I'm suggesting that you invest into more resources to make sure that levels of expectations that you create by how things have been handled in the past aren't dropping and are still at least up to par.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1845

I'm not telling you how to do your job, I'm suggesting that you invest into more resources to make sure that levels of expectations that you create by how things have been handled in the past aren't dropping and are still at least up to par.

Again, iVAN ....you cannot have it both ways.

You may wish to claim I'm being pedantic but "I am not telling you how to do your job." precludes what follows.

In fact it precludes most of what went before....as well....

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Again, iVAN ....you cannot have it both ways.You may wish to claim I'm being pedantic but "I am not telling you how to do your job." precludes what follows. In fact it precludes most of what went before....as well....

If you choose to interpret it that way then fine. What anybody failed to address are why my suggestions/demands are unreasonable. Furthermore, nobody yet explained why the alpha isn't distributed through SDC, are you avoiding the answer?

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KarmaGirl

Join Date 03/2001

+118

Furthermore, nobody yet explained why the alpha isn't distributed through SDC, are you avoiding the answer?

Do you have a short term memory issue? Do you not remember me telling you that we are switching systems and will not be running them in tandem? We're moving to Impulse. We're not going to continue to release through SDC. Why is this so hard to understand?

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Furthermore, nobody yet explained why the alpha isn't distributed through SDC, are you avoiding the answer?
Do you have a short term memory issue? Do you not remember me telling you that we are switching systems and will not be running them in tandem? We're moving to Impulse. We're not going to continue to release through SDC. Why is this so hard to understand?

What IS hard to understand is why, considering that Impulse isn't out of beta yet, you're completely terminating SDC. Once you have Impulse stable them I'm all for it but until then stick to something that I know works for me.

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