meat

Join Date 08/2001

WB Skin Quality these days

stop the madness.

This post originally started as a comment on a recently created windowblinds skins but felt it was more suited for the forums proper.
Essentially, there was a page and a half of positive comments about a skin that, 2 years ago, people would have voted it removed if that power were available to them. Usually, a skin like the one I was about to comment on is rated very low - one or two stars regardless of the number of glowing comments and in spite of the guy that posts "HOW COULD THIS SKIN ONLY GET 1 STAR?!?!?!?!" Those folks that actually issue the stars ratings, typically, rate them according to how I would rate a skin which tells me that those guys or gals still have their heads screwed on straight and come from the same camp I do...more or less.
There's something to be said about the page and a half of positive comments, of course. I'm not a particularly picky skin chooser. Anything decent gets a try out. If I like it alot, it stays as my main skin for a long time or until a newer, better skin dethrones it. The fact that I seem to be the only one posting a negative critique (not a skin bash) tells me that either:

A: What people on wincustomize want, in regard to Windowblinds skins, is completely unlike what I grew to expect on here
OR
B: That there are an equal number of others on Wincustomize that share my opinion but simply keep it to themselves.
OR
C: That the above 2 explanations are due to a natural recession in the skinning community as a whole.

As I'm writing this, I'm applying more thought to it than I originally intended. As stated at the beginning, this was supposed to be a quick "Your skin is icky." comment but with way more tact. And as I think about it and consider my great dissatisfaction with the skinning community as a whole the more I understand IT. Aqua-soft.org's visual style/windowblinds section is all but dead. The most active post in the windowblinds section is for a skin that was released last year! The site is bustling with activity in the other departments but not as many as there used to be, say , 3 years ago or so. I think that we are in a lull and that one day, something interesting will come out and be really cool and inspire the hell out of people again. Or maybe a new program that everyone uses, will be skinnable and usher in a whole new era of skinning.

I haven't downloaded a Windowblinds theme from here in over a month because they have all become sooo GOOFY and silly and low quality.
I'm hoping that it's just a phase and that we can look forward to hundreds of high quality, well thought out, usable Windowblinds skins in the future...
...again.

skinning

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Quentin94

Join Date 08/2006

+119

Thanks now i understand a bit better your comment on "Olphi"

ick

anyway i believe everybody need to begin somewhere.....

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unclerob

Join Date 08/2006

+40

Meat, you are entitled to your own opinion as is everyone else.

However, and this is just my opinion - you are wrong.
There have been plenty of quality submissions on this site over the past several months.

I haven't downloaded a Windowblinds theme from here in over a month because they have all become sooo GOOFY and silly and low quality.

- there are something like 70+ new wb skins uploaded to the wb gallery since the beginning of April of this year. Surely you must have found something you thought was half-decent. And if you haven't found at least a few in this crop of skins I guess you're out of luck - this site has to have the greatest selection of wb skins on the planet (ok maybe I'm wrong, but I'll stick by my words nonetheless), if you can't find anything you like here - you won't find it anywhere else. WB skins require a fair amount of effort to create and responses like "icky" really don't say alot to me or other skinners who upload their work - I personally thrive on details, if my work sucks so be it - but please say why it sucks, what specifically doesn't look good, if you don't ever offer up any details, we'll never know and as such how can someone improve.

Another point worth mentioning, if none of the stuff we're uploading is any good, you do have another option: get in the game and start creating & uploading your own wb skins to this site.
And please don't provide the excuse that you don't have time to skin or don't have the artistic talent - everyone has to start somewhere.

Don't consider my response a personal attack on you, you started this post and I'm sure you expected some kind of response to it. And for the record, I personally think that the wb skins on this site are awesome, I don't think I would have gotten involved in wb skinning if I thought the wb skin content on this site wasn't any good - on the contrary, it's both the diversity & quality of these wb skins which inspired me to get involved in the first place. Everyone's work will vary depending on talent, skill level, experience and other factors but that holds the same for pretty much everything else on this planet.

BTW - none of the skins on this site are "icky", I'm sure you could have found a better word than that.

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Nimbin

Join Date 01/2006

+118

meat, just because you don't like the themes being produced lately doesn't make then bad, they are just not to your taste. and like unclerob said, if you dont like what is on offer make your own. i personally have seen and downloaded
a great quantity of quality skins and have had no problems with them at all, everything works as it should. maybe you should take a closer look at what is on offer and if the colours seem goofy to you, then download the skin and use windowblinds to change the colours to your own taste

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I agree with unclerob and Nimbin...if you dont like what's here.... then make your own.

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Guys, I'm not trying to say that every post lately is garbage. I'm just saying that compared to last year, the number of submissions that *I* really really like has gone down tremendously and that is significant in itself because, like I said, I'm *not* terribly picky. And If *I* can't seem to find much I like, then *something* has changed. Whether it be myself or others. I just wanted to see if anyone else felt the same way I did.

Meat

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unclerob

Join Date 08/2006

+40

I haven't downloaded a Windowblinds theme from here in over a month because they have all become sooo GOOFY and silly and low quality.

and then...

Guys, I'm not trying to say that every post lately is garbage

I know you're trying to make a point but to be honest you are confusing me a little.

It sounded like in the original post that lately the recent wb skins aren't good enough to merit a download from you and then you tell us that you're not trying to say that every post lately is garbage. Which is it? If not every skin lately is "garbage" then I'm sure you found something worthy of a download.

Anyways, I'm not going to bust your hump on this (not too much anyways

) but you can see that you are confusing us a little on this issue.

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WOM

Join Date 01/2002

+253

Maybe I'll say something even though I probably should be quiet.

Most of the WB's on my machine are over 2 years old. I do have a handful of newer ones. I'am very picky so I don't rate or comment very often. When I MOD a WB I put my opinion on the back burner and rate by the facts only. I feel as a Wizop, I have to be careful when I comment on things as to not sway the vote, so I generally don't give a negitive comment, only positive ones. I don't think there is a worse percentage of bad skins now than in the past. There is just more uploads now, so there might appear to be more bad ones. Now if your talking about walls, then thats another ball game. I'am sure as more people post on this thread, you'll get a few different ideas. Who knows. But lets be cool.

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vStyler

Join Date 11/2004

+919

Its real simple, some skinners moved on..some are busy on other projects, some are making Master skins (deservedly) and some new ones moved in..It takes a LONG time to learn to skin WB effectively enough to make a top quality skin, in some cases, years and years. If you don't like the quality of the skins being produced..right now..use the great ones from a year ago..or alternatively...embark on the long and arduous process of learning Photoshop and Skinstudio.

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Just like WOM, most of the skins I use for WB are years old. Currently, I'm using Brushed 3.5 by Hills Rappongi. This is an original MAC theme ported to Visual Styles then converted for WB use. I consistently return to it for numerous reasons. I haven't found a skin so diverse and so sweet to look at in ages. Yes, I've downloaded skins within the last 4 months but not in the last month or more. I haven't liked many of them enough to merit taking up the space on my HD. It seems like it used to be that you would maybe once every couple months get the goofy theme-based skin like where you have actual images of whatever the theme is, built into the title bar (ie a camelot theme in which a shield is built into the start panel and where little daggers are the min-max-close buttons, etc. And they are neato for like 10 seconds...long enough to go 'hrm. That's kinda neat. But completely unusable." And now it seems like there are just SO many like that now. It's like , how many people really use the aquarium skin with the fish in the titlebar regularly? And maybe it's just that there are a lot more users now, and maybe the percentage of Super skinners to newbie skinners is out of balance and biased towards the newbies.
Anyway, I try really hard to leave constructive crits in my comments. Like "You should anti-alias those edges - there's a good tutorial for that here at http://xyz" instead of just beating them up for no reason.
I'm not here to be an ass. (well, maybe just a little bit)
Just to find out if what I'm perceiving isn't just me.

Meat

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1845

A lot of people first got into skinning, way back when....not because they thought "I am better than these guys" but simply because "I can't see anything I'm REALLY looking for...simple fix...I'll do it myself".

From that came diversity, creativity, innovation.

Now, skinning [of WB] has become more extensive/complete and thus complicated to the detriment of such a simple solution [D.I.Y.]. Now there's a greater likelihood of someone who feels dissatisfied with what's on offer remaining so, unless they REALLY are motivated to fill 'the hole' themselves.

There are still frequent 'skin requests'....[can you do this, only pink, but longer and reversed.....] simply for the reason that people either don't want to 'take the effort to learn to do it for themselves' or honestly presume it is actually beyond their ability.

Nothing is beyond anyone. Not in skinning. There IS no University Career Enrolment for 'Skinning 101'. Everyone you see here and on any other skinning site has started from scratch and learned what was/is needed.

That said, necessity is the mother of invention. If a similar amount of energy was expended on attempting to create that 'missing quality skin' as was expended on lamenting it's absence there would be no situation to lament....

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vStyler

Join Date 11/2004

+919

The reason you find very few skins that useable in your opinion is.. it's just that your opinion.. I doubt very many people can say they have found their perfect skin, moreover.. probably never will. This is where learning a bit of basic graphix and SKS knowledge comes in. If you take the one's you like.. and try personalize them a bit for yourself , 1. You'll have more skins that fit you. 2. You might just start skinning. It's what got me started.. and 3.You'll have a better idea about what is involved.

I happen to agree with you that the quality of ALL skins drops from time to time..It'll bounce back, always does.

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Maybe if skinstudio was free, now that they are charging for dreams, isnt this possible? I think with more people who cannot afford it, get it for free, we may see a explosion of nice ones! I know tons of users who just cannot afford to buy skinstudio, but make killer visual styles

Just a thought Stardock

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Free?? do you really think think an amazing program such as SkinStudio should be completely free??...And just so you know, there is a free version for those who "cannot afford it"

I haven't downloaded a Windowblinds theme from here in over a month because they have all become sooo GOOFY and silly and low quality.

I can name you some great windowblinds that came out this month...

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Fuzzy Logic

Join Date 05/2002

+493

I don't use any of the skins which came out in the last month, the last year, or ever - I use my own Great skins or not they just aren't what I want to use.

Back before I started to skin, I used plenty of different blinds. There was always something I didn't quite like, whether it be a scrollbar or toolbar button etc. The answer was simple and that's the path I chose.

With such a diverse world as we have, no one thing can hope to satisfy everyone. Maybe a small minority if you are lucky. It's up to an individual to decide what they wish to do about it. Each to his/her own as the saying goes

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Quentin94

Join Date 08/2006

+119

Anyway, I try really hard to leave constructive crits in my comments

I can't agree with you here. maybe in past... But all i see today it's some "Your skin is icky" or " Tip of the day...hone your graphics skills! TOO MANY GRADIENTS!" or "ick"

the last i just understand it yesterday with this post.(again thanks)
I appreciate honest people... But it seems you are not honest here. A simple "Your skin is icky" or "ick" Is not honest critics. It's your feelings and i respect them. But you try here to show you make good critics i can't agree. Be Honest, tell them what you think in your comments here and under the skins...
I agree with you for my first skin it was not really good

As i can see you like minimalistics skins. It's good for me. I don't dislike them

But when you dislike something and want comment it to make a good critics think as start your fellings can't be the same than others, try to be less hard, ironic (that's could take as insult by the skinner and others).
ex:
" Tip of the day...hone your graphics skills! TOO MANY GRADIENTS!"
me i write more something like that:
"You should make less Gradients that could make your skin better for eyes"

I agree with you there are less "AWESOME" skins and i agree with vStyler the reason that there are some new skinners and we need to start somewhere, and that some of the awesome skinners are "retired" but it stay some of them too

I really hope you don't take my words as bash cause it's not what i want.

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I get why people try to encourage skinners with positive comments - I really do - but sometimes it just feels wrong to see glowing reviews of a bad skin. I haven't found one good WB the last couple of months that I would use for more than 5 minutes.

There is a huge leap in quality from the basic WB skins to the master skins - and all the good skinners who previously released their skins for free are now making master skins. Let's just hope that people like Essorant, MikeB, Treetog and a few others still find the mercy to release a free skin once i while.

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2of3

Join Date 10/2006

+816

This is the kind of thread that will convince us "newbies" never to post our "goofy" skins! Maybe we need to send them to meat for approval first!

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WOM

Join Date 01/2002

+253

I'am sure the Masters will still produce free skins. Its almost a must to keep your name out there with all the new people comming in. If people don't know who you are and how good your skins are, they won't buy. Its as simple as that. So don't worry. Also, I think its fine for them to make master skins, get paid for their work, its not easy to make a WB, and its time consumming unless your cloning.

We all have our likes and dislikes. So enjoy what you have for free, sift through the WB library and find some that you like.

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2of3

Join Date 10/2006

+816

Can't say that I see an WB skins posted on meat's page. Guess it goes to show: Those that can't do, critisize!

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Quentin94

Join Date 08/2006

+119

Hum... It could be better if everybody around don't attack others... Keep peace and calm
It's just a dialog

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2of3

Join Date 10/2006

+816

You're right of course! Just find the OP's comments a bit abrasive! If I don't like something somebody produced, I just don't download it!

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Fairyy~

Join Date 02/2004

+49

So many things I could debate but I won't get into it.
Meat, I do see your point and your not really ' wrong' per se...
But, just that telling someone their skin is ' icky' serves no purpose at all.
You are correct to a certain degree and thats because so many of the older skinners are gone. But insulting the newer/beginner skinners is not going to improve anything.
I use very few WB skins. Im not into changing very often. I used Apocalypse's Xmas blind for a solid year....not because I was into 'Holly' but because it was ' usable'
All this transparency crap is just annoying to me but thats what the 'in' crowd calls for so 99% of the blinds all look the same to me now. I think thats why most of the old time skinners dont bother. There is little to create when 75% of the skin is invisible.
And while your right about those novelty skins not being usable for long periods of time, they are still wanted by a lot of people that like to change their Themes weekly/daily.

What is it that your looking for ? You want to be WOW'd
WOW only lasts a short time - its like a fix , then your looking for the next WOW.

Be happy with the older skins you have, learn to tweak them and try to find a kind word to those just learning to skin...because.......for most skinners it is a thankless job that doesn't usually get so much as a thank you even if the skin is in fact ' good'
Usually you see more of 'this is good BUT' could I get this in a smaller size and a different color and maybe could you redo those buttons cos I just don't like oval ones"

"Sure....I have no life anyway"

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1845

There is little to create when 75% of the skin is invisible.

Geez....I'd seriously have to debate that....at least with Winamp 2x skins.

Last time I counted it had taken me 3 months of editing/revising, each night every night to code by hand around 8000 individual transparency co-ordinates. [OK, so Maxim came along and created a solution that now takes about 5 minutes].

Either way, transparency takes as much effort to get 'right' as any actually visible part of a skin....as the skin itself requires BOTH [if it's not to be a dull-as-dishwater bland square]...

Like any form of graphic art....what you leave out of a picture is equally as important as what you include...

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Fairyy~

Join Date 02/2004

+49

Geez....I'd seriously have to debate that....at least with Winamp 2x skins.

AND.....you could have warned me that your winamp had so much transparency cos I couldnt find it after I downloaded it.

Seriously..I was not expecting that from you..I thought I had mucked up the download.

Back to windowblinds...
Im not talking about the fact that its harder to make the blinds with transparency..Im talking about after awhile they all resemble each other. The older blinds had more artistic quality to them. I do like a mixture of semi-transparency but I like to be able to find my the text on my drop down menu's readable. Some of us do not have 20 year old eyes anymore...

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Daiwa

Join Date 07/2001

+351

This subject came up 2-3 months ago. Not much has changed in the meantime. Skinning for WB5+, though challenging and fun, is incredibly time-consuming. Skinning most GUI elements becomes fairly straightforward once you spend a little time examining & making changes to a skin in SKS, but there is no consistent logic that is applicable throughout skin design - no rhyme or reason why some images are tiled vertically, some horizontally, for instance - making a lot of skinning rote memorization, anything but intuitive.

But it's the GUI elements seldom seen, areas inadequately explained, elements for which the Preview is either not WYSIWYG or non-existent (and, regrettably, those are too numerous) that really bog you down. The interdependent nature of many of the images also slows you down - make a minor change to a button and 12 other images need to be modified to match up. Then there's the whole issue of Toolbar Buttons and Animations - SKS6 really needs to include tools for creating those and adequate instructions on how to use them. I have a half-dozen skins that I consider excellent and "done" in all other respects, but I haven't yet learned to do TB buttons or anims so I'm reluctant to upload them since they still seem "incomplete". I know there are 3rd-party apps for anims but it only seems logical to bundle that capability into SKS.

Making SKS previews true WYSIWYG and available for all GUI elements would be the number one thing I'd ask for in SKS6. Next would be more lay-language instructions & descriptions in the Help Pane - what's in SKS now was clearly written by coders for coders. In any event, if SKS6 addresses those shortcomings well, you're likely to see a significant improvement in the technical quality of uploaded skins.

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