Stardock, I'm Disappointed » Forum Post by Kinjiru

Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

Okay, let me first officially say loudly that some of you really need to get a grip.

As Zoomba explained, last night (middle of the night) there was a hardware failure. In an effort to keep all sites up, a backup was restored but caused a DNS configuration error which caused -- for a few hours until this morning -- for galciv2.com to point to JoeUser.com.

JoeUser.com is a FREE blogging community. Anyone can create a blog there. Any of you could using your GalCiv2.com UserID and PW. The site contains blogs from thousands of people writing about everything from their cats to politics.

If that blog site seems "conservative" to you then I see only two possibilities: 1) That there just happens to be more conservative bloggers there tha non-conservatives or 2) That "conservative" is in the eye of the beholder and that one may want to re-evaluate ones thinking on where they come down on such things (i.e. Americans tend to be more conservative than Europeans for instance). It's all relative.

While Stardock people do write on JoeUser.com from time to time, it represents less than 1%. The only Stardockian I found on the home page was me with my AAR (hardly political).

I certainly apologize for any inconvenience. I wasn't happy to find out about the problem either. But these things do happen. Even Amazon.com has been known to be down for a few hours. And you don't get much more catastrophic than the hard drive on a core server going down in off-hours.

Just as we don't delete posts on GalCiv2.com that are critical of the game, we don't censor what people write on JoeUser.com. If you have a problem with the existence of people who have opinions that differ from yours, then you probably should find a different company to deal with. We support the idea of people being able to express themselves.

And while I may not like someone coming onto the forum and posting that they think we were wrong not to have multiplayer or that it should be more like master of orion, we still support their right to make their post. Similarly, we may not agree with most of the things written on JoeUser.com but we support their right to write what they want (within reason).

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

Incidentally, for those who don't knwo what's being talked about, for a few hours users going to galciv2.com were ending up at https://www.joeuser.com (a free blog site we provide users).

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

For anyone who's interested, my blog is here:

http://frogboy.joeuser.com/

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Hey, I'm curious about something: if Frogboy and the Geico gecko got in a fight, who would win?

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

Hey, I'm curious about something: if Frogboy and the Geico gecko got in a fight, who would win?

Depends if he's been drinking or not...

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Hey, I'm curious about something: if Frogboy and the Geico gecko got in a fight, who would win?
Depends if he's been drinking or not...

Ha ha funny

I don't usually talk that way

Etrius

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Hey, I'm curious about something: if Frogboy and the Geico gecko got in a fight, who would win?

Depends if he's been drinking or not...

That is bizarre. I thought about posting that, down to the exact same phraseology.

Bizarre!

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The site wasnt down the home page was just rerouted somehow.

Now I was able to get back onto the forums through the clever use of History.

And it didnt bother me rally, it just annoyed me a little.

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Hey, I'm curious about something: if Frogboy and the Geico gecko got in a fight, who would win?

Triangle Man.

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Okay, let me first officially say loudly that some of you really need to get a grip.

Always a good way to get on a good foot with someone (in this case, customers.)

As Zoomba explained, last night (middle of the night) there was a hardware failure. In an effort to keep all sites up, a backup was restored but caused a DNS configuration error which caused -- for a few hours until this morning -- for galciv2.com to point to JoeUser.com.

I don't think anyone was complaining about the technical problems or that the site is down. We do accept this as a fact of life. Things break. But why JoeUser? If the fact it went to JoeUser was unintended then that's all that really needs to be said, right? "Sorry, we didn't intend to redirect to JU, it just worked out that way, and we understand it could've caused offense." would have sufficed.

JoeUser.com is a FREE blogging community. Anyone can create a blog there. Any of you could using your GalCiv2.com UserID and PW. The site contains blogs from thousands of people writing about everything from their cats to politics.

You're missing the point. We're talking about people trying to go to a gaming site, not looking for a place to delve into controversial and potentially offensive debates.

If that blog site seems "conservative" to you then I see only two possibilities: 1) That there just happens to be more conservative bloggers there tha non-conservatives or 2) That "conservative" is in the eye of the beholder and that one may want to re-evaluate ones thinking on where they come down on such things (i.e. Americans tend to be more conservative than Europeans for instance). It's all relative.

I think the focus on a label or title is taking away from the point. There are a lot of opinions on JU that could be offensive. It could've just as well have been a bunch of liberal rants, or gay rights advocates, or, well you name it. It's controversial opinions and it has nothing to do with GalCiv2.

While Stardock people do write on JoeUser.com from time to time, it represents less than 1%. The only Stardockian I found on the home page was me with my AAR (hardly political).

I don't know if anyone was really griping that Stardock employees have one opinion or another, it was about whether or not it's appropriate for such controversial opinions to be so closely linked to Stardock that this website snafu occurred.

I certainly apologize for any inconvenience. I wasn't happy to find out about the problem either. But these things do happen. Even Amazon.com has been known to be down for a few hours. And you don't get much more catastrophic than the hard drive on a core server going down in off-hours.

When's the last time that Amazon.com was down and instead you landed on a page with praise to Jerry Fallwell, posts that say the Anti-Christ is a Jew, and so on? That's the point. I don't expect Stardock to be held to the standards of companies with far more resources, but I do think it's reasonable to hope that I won't go to GalCiv2.com and instead be met face to face with absolutely any random thing someone might have to say, especially potentially offensive things. There's a lot more on JU than just political speech.

Just as we don't delete posts on GalCiv2.com that are critical of the game, we don't censor what people write on JoeUser.com. If you have a problem with the existence of people who have opinions that differ from yours, then you probably should find a different company to deal with. We support the idea of people being able to express themselves.

And while I may not like someone coming onto the forum and posting that they think we were wrong not to have multiplayer or that it should be more like master of orion, we still support their right to make their post. Similarly, we may not agree with most of the things written on JoeUser.com but we support their right to write what they want (within reason).

I support that too. I just don't want to see it places where it doesn't belong. If this event took place on a major site like Amazon, to use prior example, you'd have made front page CNN news. I'm not attacking you or Stardock by saying all of this. I'm pointing out that this isn't just a matter of a few people being thin-skinned. What happened was accidental, I think it's a good time to move on and hopefully learn something from it, but all that said, it was socially unacceptable too. I don't get the vibe that Stardock considered it socially unacceptable when I'm told to get a grip.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

Kin - I'll say it again: Get a grip.

Let me be the first to welcome you to the Internet and to point out that I'm not a shop keeper or store clerk. I am a software developer. I make no promises to you about being nice or friendly. I only promise to be honest and provide the best product I can.

As for what you read on JU, you misrepresent what you saw. The thread about the anti-christ was pointing out anti-semitism in some religious circles. There was no post praising Jerry Falwell. Just a person who relating an experience at a church that happened to be affiliated with Jerry Falwell.

You wrote:

I hope that SD will make adjustments so those of us who find a good portion of what was on JoeUser this morning to be nothing more than negative hate speech

There was nothing hateful that I could find. Simply people with view points that differ from yours. If you're that intolerant, then no, I really don't want you using my software.

Here are the two threads you keep referring to in the context of "hate speech"

https://www.joeuser.com/index.asp?AID=152066 (discussion of singing of patriotic songs in a church)

and

https://forums.joeuser.com/?FoRumID=65&AID=151537 (sources of anti-semitism in religion)

I didn't personally find either topic very interesting. But the people writing them are certainly not full of hate.

And make no mistake, if rolls were reversed and JoeUser bloggers were complaining about being re-directed to a site full of strange people wanting to invade and kill aliens I would be defending you guys just as vigorously.

And given that we are talking about a game in which players commit mass genocide on a regular basis, being offended that you ended up on a blog site and feeling that you needed to write about this several times seems excessive to me.

A server crashed, the DNS was re-routed and messed up galciv2.com for a few hours. We apologized for it. But you overreacted. You weren't sent to some porn site. Or some adults-only site. You were sent a blog site.

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Thanks for the reply.

Rest assured that I won't make the mistake of believing I am any more than a dollar sign to you, and I will likewise not make the mistake of hoping to be treated as anything more than such by you in the future. Had I realized this beforehand, I would have saved you the trouble of this entire thread.

Regards,

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

Rest assured that I won't make the mistake of believing I am any more than a dollar sign to you, and I will likewise not make the mistake of hoping to be treated as anything more than such by you in the future. Had I realized this beforehand, I would have saved you the trouble of this entire thread.

Oh come on now. Yes, the reason we put out free updates, interact with users, put up game play examples is because fellow players are just objects of currency to us so that we can buy our gold plated rocket cars.

My problem with your posts and subsequent responses are:

1) Making a mountain out of a molehill

2) Misrepresenting JoeUser as a "hate-filled" site when it's just a blog communitythat's actually full of pretty nice people.

Like I said earlier, I don't make any promises about being unconditionally nice. I just promise to be honest to you and provide the best software I can make. So if someone treats me or my company in a way that I think is unfair then I'm going to respond to that.

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Im still finding this thread to be pointless. Kinjuru is overly upset cause he was directed to a site which had topics that didnt confirm to his beliefs...wow, egocentric maybe? As Frogboy said, "get a grip." And you should seriously grow up, this is the internet. If you get offended by others opinions, you shouldnt surf the web.

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Much as I virulently disagree with a lot of the stuff on the front page of JoeUser (and boy do I), I can't fathom where Kinjuru is coming from here. If seeing an opinion different from yours is "offensive" then... well... you probably want to get off the internet if you want to avoid being offended. It's not reasonable to expect Stardock, or anyone for that matter, to coddle you to the degree he seems to expect.

I will say, though, that I'm really not sure it's in Stardock's best interest to be so closely linked with a website that is, regardless of its original intent, largely a dumping ground for a specific shade of partisan political discourse

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I agree with these guys. That Spiderman 3 review deeply offended me.

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Also, the views Kinjiru is expressing in this thread completely clash with my own beliefs. Frogboy I am deeply offended by what he is saying and demand an apology from you.

Now I realize that you wealthy game developers don't care about their customers, and that to you I am only another $40 to fill up your swimming pool of money.

Good day to you, sir!

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I do have to say here that the management and employees of Stardock are people, and people with valid opinions. Even if you do not agree with these opinions, the opinions are no less valid. They are also allowed to express their opinions in any reasonable way they see fit, with blogging falling well within the category of "reasonable."

That being said, most of the blogs you will see on JoeUser are not Stardock employees. Frogboy, by far, writes the most blogs of anyone at Stardock. I do not always agree with his views, and he is the owner of Stardock, but I would never stop playing or buying Stardock software because of Brad's views. He and the rest of the talent at Stadock make excellect games and other software, and this does not preclude them from having and sharing their opinions in a free blogging community.

Stardock also seems to really care about the gaming community and continue to treat us like they, as gamers, like to be treated by game developers.

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Neilo

Join Date 04/2006

+128

Kinjiru,

There's an X in the top right of your screen, don't like what you see, click it!!

How you have managed to get this far in life without seeing or hearing something similar is beyond me....

And , if i understand the situation, Brad owns both site's. He will do as he pleases and we should be thankful for the effort that he and his employees put in. Did i agree with the Joe User content, No. So i closed the page and used SDC to see the forum. Simple.

I am any more than a dollar sign to you

Well DUH! At the end of the day, the man has to eat. Do you think he does what he does because he is bored. By your rationale Brad is nothing but a programmer who should do as your heart desires. Are we dollar signs, of course, most of us know this, are we exploited, NO! Do we get our dollar's worth? Yes! and plenty more...

Brad, did you just get angry??? Didn't think it was possible....

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A satisfied customer chiming in here to say that I don't really care what your political beliefs are so long as you guys keep up the good work on the games. Also - welcome to the western world, where people are allowed to pretty much do or say whatever they want.

It's ironic that you hate the opinions on that page so much that you posted this thread and went on a tirade about how wrong they are, because you're doing exactly the same thing, just from the opposite side.

It's also pretty ridiculous that you're trying to play martyr here, because nobody's been anything but civil to you, and you seem determined to play out some sort of persecution complex.

Anyhow, don't let this get you down, most of us love the work you're doing, and are not disappointed by you in any way. Don't let the vocal minority influence you too much.

(But there have been an awful lot of political threads around here lately. I know I come here to read about spaceships, not that stuff. Maybe time to ban it completely here?)

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hehe

I'll say it again: Get a grip.

Classic!

(Sorry, sometimes Evil S. rubs off on me.)

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because nobody's been anything but civil to you,

Trust me, my urge to be anything but is growing...

I can't believe this is still going on. Enough already Kinjiru... enough.
To Brad, kudos on your response!

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I'll chip in my opinion here as well.
Stardock had internal server errors.
JoeUser content showed up on the GalCiv2 site.
The error was fixed as soon as it was noted.

Sounds like a perfectly reasonable response to me.

While I'm not a huge fan of reading politicoreligious views that differ strongly from mine, I'm used to it (being a liberal in the South). Discussion and disagreement are vital parts of life.

So...

Kudos to Stardock for doing everything in their power to keep the websites running, and for fixing the glitch as soon as possible.

Kudos to Stardock for making great games, and making me want to keep giving them money.

Shame on those few who can't accept an honest mistake.

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i just had to add a few thoughts here. i was tempted to respond to some specific quotes here, but there are simply too many juicy ones in these comments for it to be reasonable.

i am one of those "political bloggers" on JU. and quite frankly, it was a long time till i even realized there was anything going on here besides politics. to me, stardock was the maker of "political machine" as far as their software went. that, and something called skinning, which i still don't completely understand the point of.

but that aside,,,some thoughts on what was said above...

1) brad is right here. a mountain has been made out of a molehill. and before anyone jumps down my throat charging that i am jus ta brad "crony", think again...those of you who have ever ventured over to the dark side (the political debates), know that brad and i don't see eye to eye everyday. not that we disagree on everything. but our backrounds and perspectives cause us to bring very different viewpoints to the table more often than not.

2) as far as the "conservative" bias...yes and no...more neoconservative and pro-business conservative from where i sit. but those opinions vary. it is safe to say that JU is definitely tilted to the right, regardless of how you define or i nitpick these ideologies. i'm sure some of the right wing bloggers might stammer at such a thought, as they do like to play the poor minority victim quite often, but JU is tilted right, at the least,,,for that , the re is no doubt.

3) but that's not to say that there aren't a host of other perspectives out there. there are liberals, moderates, soccer moms, libertarians, greens, and other ideologies expressed on JU. and while the more right wing and pro business articles may be featured more, as someone who doesn't lean right, i am here to tell you that they are decent about featuring other perspectives. i don't know who does all the editorial deciding of featured articles, but overall, a multitude of perspectives do get thru. a lot of that right wing bias comes from brad himself, who likes to feature his own articles (and why not, it's his place, and i'm sure at least part of the motivation behind the site's creation....to express his own views) . i'm not sure what all the criteria are and who exactly decides the featured content, but well written articles, that make a strong, coherent case and are at least semi-easily read by others seems to be a key to getting noticed for consideration.

4) btw, i wrote that article, Jesus- Habitual Liar? that was referenced above. the post was not meant as an attack on jesus or christianity (tho some, of course, misread or 1/2 read everything and considered it as such) but merely asking some questions that my journeys have raised. many of the articles that i write, and others do as well, are more philosophical and are meant to cause discussion or debate...or at least get people to think a little differently, or at least think period. i bring this up not to toot my own horn (didn't even post a link) but to point out that the motivations behind some blogging might not be revealed in the headlines. some of the headlines here, like anywhere else, are more of an attention getter or an advertisement than a sum up of the articles content and intentions.

5) most of the JU political community are decent people, not the haters that they were charged with being above. what is said in the articles, and moreso the comments, where the debates and discussions get quite heated very often, are not a good representation of the actual people. what you are seeing are not the actual people, but a debate. and just like in real life, when we are arguing, our best side doesn't always show. in you gal civ world, you only see the part of the others that are relevant to the game. you don't go in there and argue about politics i'm guessin. but just like that world, many in the political world adopt a "persona" which is not a reflection of their true, everyday self. i use my real name in all my writing, whenever possible, but many adopt a s/n and essentially create a political charachter just like gal civ players create charachters that are often not a good representation of who they really are. of course, maturity levels do vary greatly...and sometimes it is more of someones inamturity or lack of self control that you see more than their level of decency as a human being.

6) one more "decent people" note....do you exclusively only associate with people who share your exact political beliefs in your real life? i don't. i have friends and associates of most all walks and perspectives, and some who couldn't give a rat's ass about politics, government, the constitution and the like. determining someone's "decentness" on their political view is one of the reasons we have such polarization in politics today, imho. the majority of this country now is starting to wake up to the fact that the pundit's push of "if someone doesn't agree on this issue, they are an amoral or bad person" is not such a good thing.

6) us political writers can be long winded, eh? don't worry,,,it's almost over....

7) finally,,,it seems to me, that depite the 1% downplay of the gal civ users, that the fact that this article went to the top of the daily most read articles, shooting past the "featured articles" says to me that there are a bunch of ya'll out there who were as unaware of us as we (or at least I) was of you. why don't ya'll come on over and share your thoughts and perspectives a littel more often? all are welcome, in fact, us political junkies usually are of the mindset that the more people and perspectives that are shared, the more that can be learned and the better we can become as a society. and if politics isn't your bag, some of the best stuff on JU is non political writing...just bring your perspectives and interests to the table, there surely will be others up for the discussion. i'm not gonna plug my own site with a shameless link here (for a change, lol) but if anyone wants to read some of my stuff, you know you can just click my name at the top of this comment. (that's still a shameless plug, isn't it? oh well...)

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Kinjiru,

Here's my problem with you: you're raising the bar for who qualifies as a fraktard here. On an ordinary day, I can enter the gc2 site and be reasonably confident that there will be 2 or 3 dozen targets worthy of the "fraktard" label.

What am I going to do now? As far as stupid motherfrakkers go, you're a statistical outlier and maybe therein lies the answer. The general population here can remain advised that they can be labeled either "fraktard" or "illiterate fraktard" at any moment whereas you are in sole possession of the title of "stupid motherfrakker."

It's sort of like royalty. Everyone will need to refer to you in the third person. Example, "His Cranio-rectal Inversion Majesty, Lord Daimyo Stupid Motherfrakker Kinjiru."

It might be a lot to type but it's certainly what you deserve.

Kinjiru, you are a fraktard's fraktard. You are destined to be history here. I believe I speak for everybody when I give you the middle finger salute.

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