Buying New Comp - Need Advice Please!!!

Qbert71

Join Date 04/2007

Buying New Comp - Need Advice Please!!!

Hello All,

I am about to buy a new computer (1st one in 4 yrs!) and have been catching up on technology (wow stuff has changed) but want some savvy people's opinion on what to get as I feel a bit dated.

Basically….

1. I can’t spend over $1,400 or my wife will kill me!
2. I want to get the most bang for my buck specifically on the graphics card (PCI-E obviously) processor & motherboard with upgrade capability if possible (don’t need monitor or perifs).
3. Hard drive around 150-200GB is fine (I can use my old comp and an external drive I have for picture storage, etc).
4. Any run of the mill DVD/CD read/write combo is fine, cable modem ready and basic Vista OS.
5. I don’t want to assemble the system myself (I’m techy but not at that level and don’t have time to fiddle/get it running right so I need a assembled system ready to go).
6. I typically play strategy/TBS type games (GalCiv II Rocks!!!!!) but still want best graphics possible so system will last longer on the tech curve.

Here are some of my questions…

1. Intel or AMD dual processors – your opinion?
2. nVidia or ATI…and what specific card do you recommend?
3. Any recommended motherboard to go after?
4. SLI? Is this important or only for dual graphics cards (which would probably set me over price limit)?
5. PhysX physics cards….I have recently read about these but are they even worth considering or just get a better graphics card?
6. Anything else you can think of or recommend on my purchase.

Please send me specs or links to sites with systems you believe fit these criteria!

Getting this info is a huge help for me, with a newborn

and a distinctly hormonal wife

at home I only have time to work, change poop and kiss up nowadays (if you know what I mean).

A big thanks in advance for your feedback!!!

- Qbert71

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Hello All,

Ok, I finally got my research done and here is where I am going with this (some recap and then the specs follow):

Basically….
1. I can’t spend over $1,500 or my wife will kill me (includes tax)!
2. I want to get the most bang for my buck specifically on the graphics card processor & SLI motherboard with some overclocking potential.
3. I don’t want to assemble the system myself (I’m not at that level and don’t have time to fiddle/get it running right so I need a custom assembled system ready to plug and play).
4. I typically play strategy/TBS type games but still want best graphics possible (so system will last longer on the tech curve).

Here are my preferences (and some Qs) based on the ibuypower.com configurator for now…

1. Case:
-Thermaltake Armor Jr. Gaming Case w/420W Power Supply
-NZXT TANK Gaming Tower Case w/420W Power Supply
-NZXT Trinity ATX Mid-Tower Case w/400W Power Supply
-Coolermaster Ammo-533 Gaming Tower Case w/420W Power Supply
-Nzxt Apollo Gaming Tower Case w/420W Power Supply
-Tuniq Symmetry Gaming Tower Case w/420W Power Supply
-NZXT DUET ATX Mid-Tower Case w/400W Power Supply
-Raidmax O2 Gaming Tower Case w/400W Power Supply
-Eagletech Viper II Aluminium Gaming Tower Case w/420W Power Supply
-Eagletech Sidewinder Gaming Tower Case w/420W Power Supply
!!!: I have no idea what case/power supply would work well with the following config (see below), specifically due to GPU size (if going for a 8800GTX) & required power specs.

2.Power Supply:
-Standard Case Power Supply
-NZXT PF-500 500 Watt Power Supply
-Enermax EG565P 535 Watt Power Supply [SLI-Ready]
-NZXT PRC-550 550W Power Supply [SLI-Ready]
-Any other to recommend?
!!!: Once again, not sure if this will be overkill with power already on the case or just to do this when I get a 2nd GPU later on? Also depends on the card.

3.Processor (Core 2 Duo):
-E6400 (2.13GHz/2MB L2)
-E6600 (2.4GHz/4MB L2) – prefer this but price may be an issue. Does having a 4MB catch make a big difference?

4.Processor Cooling:
-Certified CPU Fan and Heatsink
-CoolerMaster Liquid CPU Cooling Fan System Kit - is this the way to go or overkill?

5.MoBo:
-eVGA NForce 680i SLI - I have reead many posts that the eVGA is the better way to go but price is higher too…do they offer a 650i version?
-Asus P5N32-E SLI nForce® 680i SLI
-Asus P5N-E SLI nForce® 650i SLI
!!!: I have never overclocked before but with nTune and Rivatuner I hear it is easier for semi-savvy people like me to tweak so I want a mobo that will have some flexibility here.

6.Memory: 2048MB DDR2-800 PC6400 (1024MB x2)

7.Video Card:
-NVIDIA GeForce 8800GTS 640MB
-GeForce 8800GTX 768MB – prefer this but price may be an issue.

8. Hard Drive: 320 GB HARD DRIVE (Serial-ATA-II, 3Gb, 7200 RPM, 16M Cache) – I would like to get a WD Raptor but those things are pricey.

9.Sound Card: Any onboard is fine for now

10.CD/DVD Drive:
-18X Dual Format/Double Layer DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW Drive
-NEC 7170A Dual Format/Double Layer 18X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW Drive
-Sony Q170A Dual Format/Double Layer 18X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW Drive
-Lightscribe Technology 18X Dual Format/Double Layer DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW Drive
!!!: Any preferences here, they all seem the same to me.

11.OS:
-Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic
-Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium –1st choice
-Microsoft Windows Vista Business
!!!: Yes, I’m willing to take the risk until SP1 comes out – driver support seems to be getting better since release.

12. Anything else you can think of or recommend on my purchase (different components or “spend more here and less here” type of recommendations to get better game performance).

This was done on ibuypowers website but please send me recommendations for other sites to look at (like cyberpowerpc, etc or any place that has pre-built sytems that are price competitive).

Again, huge thanks to all who have commented and for those who are about to!

GCII rocks!!!

Now I gotta go make space paste out of some Dregin now, later,
Qbert71

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There are some higher wattage power supplies, and that might be something to look at again. For instance I happened to come across a couple on newegg that were 750w. It's been my experience that power monitoring in PC's, all I've owned at least, is non-existant. If a power supply is not providing what is needed, there will be no warning or assistance, just low performance, burned-out components (like video cards) and stuff like that. For my next machine I plan on making sure I don't get blindsided by that particular hidden expense again.

P.S. - I found that my asus mb will overclock automatically, but the performance gain is pretty small, even with ddr2-6400 ram (800mhz, matches the 800mhz front side bus of the mb). However the machine has to throttle back the ram to 667mhz to match my nVidia 7950gt video card which only runs at 700mhz overclocked/500mhz stable ... will your nVidia 8800 match the ram mhz without throttling it down? Overclocking is not really that big a deal, and it's too easy to overheat the ram or cpu/mb and wear them out or lose data. Performance gain with overclocking is something like .47 secs computing 1 million digits of Pi on my 3.0mhz Intel CPU.... is it really worth it?

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!!!: Once again, not sure if this will be overkill with power already on the case or just to do this when I get a 2nd GPU later on? Also depends on the card.

If you select an individual PSU, it'll replace the one that comes with the case, not work alongside it. Still a good idea in any case--PSUs that come with cases are typically cheapies and are not to be trusted with expensive or demanding components.

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I don't overclock, cause I can't afford any fatal mistakes. So I have to go with what I can afford. I recently sold some of my old stuff that has been in the attic for decades, for $700. This gave me the hardware upgrade budget for this machine. When upgrading hardware, I use everything I can from the old, which help reduce costs. I already have on hand an AM2 mobo and Athlon X2 3800+ 65 Watt Retail. I finally decided to go with a better processor and keep the 3800+ for a backup.

Current system:
Gigabyte GA-7N400 Pro2 nForce2 chipset Socket A
(8 PATA drives, 2 FDD, 2 SATA150, for a total of 12 drives)
Athlon XP 3200+ 400 Mhz FSB
20 Pin ATX power connector
DDR RAM - 2.5 GB DDR400
AGP 8X (GeForce FX5500 256 MB DX9 OpenGL 1.4, which runs DA and my 3D CG apps quite nicely)
HDDs: 300 GB, 2 x 200 GB, 160 GB (all PATA)
Optical: DVD burner, CD ROM (all PATA)

New (upgrades):
ECS NFORCE4M-A AM2 1000 Mhz FSB (on hand)
(4 PATA drives, 2 FDD, 4 SATA150, for a total of 10 drives)
Athlon 64 X2 5200+ dual 1 MB L2 cache
Antec True Power 3 550 24 pin ATX PSU
Kingston 2 GB DDR667 Kit
MSI nVidia 7600GS 256 MB dual DVI
AeroCool X-Fire cpu heatsink/fan (the one supplied with the 5200+ is not that good)
400 GB SATA150 hdd Retail (pricey at $175.99)

If you compare the available PATA druves on both mobos, you will see that I have to pull 2 of them. I chose the 160 GB, and the CD ROM drive. Both will be made into external USB2 drives. Since I needed a functional internal replacement for the 160 GB, I chose the SATA150 hdd.

OS is XP Pro SP2 Retail, which I will have to activate. Yet Again!!

Total cost for the upgrade parts including newegg 3 day, but, not including the mobo, is $669.78! That left $30.22 to spare.

Since I have sold even more stuff, and more to go, to the same person, I should be able to build 64 bit system (XP Pro 64), for use with Vue 6 Infinite 64 bit. I won't need as much hardware for this (drives), since I am starting it out, and the mobo will not have any sata150 ports on it.

At any rate, that is the way I do things.

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Mystikmind

Join Date 06/2004

+20

[quote]Security on Vista is much tighter, and Vista is a lot more secure - at the price of occasional UAC prompts. But those mostly appear during installs, and won't affect normal operation of the machine.

Vista sounds like it has a 'prevex' clone installed on it! Prevex being an awesome program to stop nasties getting on your computer while your browsing the internet. But when your not using the internet it is a pain in the but!!

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Neilo

Join Date 04/2006

+128

You don't want to go under 500w with your power supply that's for sure.

Does having a 4MB catch make a big difference?

Yes. But with what you are intending for this machine will you notice it? Probably not. Stick with the 6400, it will do the trick.

-Asus P5N-E SLI nForce® 650i SLI

Good choice.

The same board i will be using.

I'd go with the 880GTS, there is not too much between them and the price difference is a bit much, and like you said, you won't be pushing the rig that hard to begin with.

I have the Sony Dual Layer drive, no hassles and was pretty cheap. With your OS, if you are going to go with Vista, anything less than Premium would be a waste and Buisness would be too much i should think, depends on your other uses for the PC but premium should do.

Looks like you are on the right track, once you have your new rig the Drengin will be running for the hills......

Imagine, Lord Kona running with Tlas chasing him....

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Good choice. The same board i will be using.

Thanks for the feedback Neilo! So sounds like min 500w is ok for 1 8800GTS...thus any ATX type case will be ok then (since it sounds like I wont be using the powersource supplied)?

- I had a feeling this would be the case! Kyro, thanks for the several posts! You get around on these boards, don't you? I've been playing strategy games since before "The Magic Candle" days and you guys got me hooked on GCII. Can we just clone Stardock now so you guys can put out 2wice the output please! Cheers!!

Performance gain with overclocking is something like .47 secs computing 1 million digits of Pi on my 3.0mhz Intel CPU.... is it really worth it?

Sounds like not, but I will be more and more tempted to play arund with it when the system gets out of date (at least if I fry something, it will be toward the end of the comps lifecycle! Thanks for the data ElWhopO!

P.S. Does your name "ElWhopO" have anything to do with The 3 Amigos?

Thanks for the info on Vista OS Mystikmind!

...and to the rest of you who provided feedback!

Any thoughts on case type to get?

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Any thoughts on case type to get?

If someone else is building it for you, the only real descision for you to make there is which one you like the looks of

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Looks ok to me.

I don 't think you will need the Liquid Cooling unless you plan to do some serious overclocking. A good case and fan setup should suffice. Don't skimp on the Processor fan - make sure it is a variable speed fan and check to see if your MB can be set up to adjust the speed. SpeedFan is a great freeware to check out that will do this for you - it can also be used for overclocking. May want to check out it's website - it has a list of motherboards that enable variable speed fans.

When buying a power supply - make sure that you check the amperage on the 12V DC rail and not just the Watts. Cheap power supplies will be rated at high wattage, but the line amp will be low, thus it may only be 1/2 the wattage advertised. If you spend less than $90 on a power supply you are probably not geting the best. I personally prefer thew quiet Antec line with a dual fan system and dual 12V(18A) rails. Makes a huge difference. Don't skimp here - the power supply is the heart of your system - a good one will prevent lots of problems down the road.

As far as overclocking, I prefer to go the AMD route. I have found the processors are much easier to overclock - in fact most modern BIOS's that support them have overclocking tools built in. Not sure how much overclocking is going to buy you with a dual 2.4 processor anyway.

I'd go with the 2.4 processor over the 2.1 if you can afford it - not so much for the cache but for the clock speed. 2.4 is noticably faster than 2.1 when running processor intensive apps.

I'd try and get 4GB RAM if you can afford it - 2 is good, but you will need to have 4 in a year or two anyway...get it now.

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Neilo

Join Date 04/2006

+128

I'd try and get 4GB RAM if you can afford it - 2 is good, but you will need to have 4 in a year or two anyway...get it now.

Yes, 4gb would be far better. 2 will do for now, but in about a year you might regret not getting 4, if the budget allows.

As with the case, like Kyro said, something that takes your fancy will do nicely. As long as it has good cooling you should not need the liquid gear. Might save some $$$ here.

With your PSU, anything from Antec or Thermaltake will do the job well. They are very quiet units.

Good Luck!

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I'm not sure about DirectX 10 cards at this time. Some people say it will still be a few years before you need it, others say sooner than that.

There's at least 3 DX10 titles I've read about that will be out this Christmas, though I don't know the names of them right now. And judging by what I've been reading of the capabilities that DX10 provides, most game companies will be jumping at the chance to use them. So it's going to be alot less than a few years before you'll be needing a DX10 card. Mind you the early releases will no doubt still be DX9 compatible.

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Mystikmind

Join Date 06/2004

+20

I would steer clear of overclocking. I have been down that road and well, what i learn't is that whenever a program crashes or whatever goes wrong, the first thought that pops into your mind is to wonder if the overclocking is causing it! I hated that, it is just good to not have to have all that bulshit to worry about.

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Check out the E4300. It's the same as the E6300 with virtualization disabled (which hardly anyone needs). It's so easy to overclock, a child could do it, and it's cheaper than the other core2duo chips. With a very inexpensive aftermarket cooler and the cheaper 667mz ram, you can safely bump this chip from 1.8 ghz to 3.0 ghz with no effort whatsoever. When you can run a chip at nearly double its rated speed on cheap ram with air cooling and little or no experience in overclocking, I say it's worth a second look. That's what I'm currently running.

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What is the point in overclocking, with these modern Processors? Overclocking Voids the Warranty(ies) of the parts involved. So does a third party heatsink/fan.

I am dualbooting XP Pro 32 bit and XP Pro 64 bit. 32 bit for things that won't run in XP 64, like my 2 HP printers (DeskJet 3820 and LaserJet 1018).

Get the best you can afford.

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I recommand you stick with intel.

Intel has their chips produced in Taiwan, AMD in china.

A chinese specialist in computers and management told me : you prefer to buy stuff in Taiwan to be honest.

I bought a e6600 duo core 2. It wick your ass so much. I can play bf2142, download a game, and I can even format my D: again and again , all at the same time. (msn, antivirus, everything on !!)

I put in it a 300 go HD,
BFG geforce 7950 GT OC 512 gddr3.
dual 2048 ddr2 800mhz.
This on a Asus P5W-HD Deluxe. (best motherboard for intel duo-core, for gaming)

It is running faster than any AMD cpu on the market actually. Unless you want to pay 1000$ more. (canadian $, today : 92,41$ cent us !!)

I bought this stuff before last christmas, it was a gift of mine, for me. Let met tell you that since then, no games on the market actually beat my pc. I run everything at max, I mean everything.

I strongly sugest you go Intel.
I had AMD in the past, it was little bit better than intel product at this time. But now the duo-core technology is much more superior on intel cpu. For the graphic cards, go with your heart and your wallet, but...
DX10 games are not for now, because all title set for 2008 rigt now are still dx9 dx10 compatible, so wait until next year to buy a dx10 card, a dx9 for half the price do a great job, I paid mine 275$can, they gone up since then but well.

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Though AMD may contract for some chips to be produced in china, their 65nm process fab that makes all or the bulk of their X2 CPU chips is in Dresden, GE.

drrider

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Qbert - I upgraded my system to a asus crosshair mobo, 700w thermaltake power supply unit (psu), used my nvidia 7950gt video card, used my 4gb ddr-2 800mhz ram, and put an AMD 6000+ cpu (3.0ghz) onboard ... it's smokin! About 500% faster than the 3.0ghz(competing brand name)/asus p5wd2-deluxe mobo combo I had before.

In comparison: The cpu is actually a lot cooler with the stock heatsink than the (other) one, seems like 20c cooler. No more spastic lockups. No need to overclock. No problems running ANY application, including gcII/da with gigantic maps. Simply brute forces any application without any o/c. Speed difference is like upgrading from a leaky rowboat to a supercharged Cigarette Boat! ... Need I say more?

Yep, I did a play on words with the name ElWhopO ... El Guapo (pronounced el-whop-o) means 'The Beautiful' or something like that, I think ... he was the grungy bandit chief in the 3 Amigos! I figured what could be more beautiful than a well applied ass-whoppin? Hence ElWhopO was conceived. Now all I have to do is live up to it ...

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