No one worries why cockroaches do what they do, we just exterminate them. so it should be with terrorists.

Ouch, my post sounds a little harsh. I guess for the terrorist on the front line, the ones willing to give their own lives, aside from their own twisted perception of reality, they are extremely noble human beings.

ok emperor

it is ok for terrerists to attack civilians but not for countries defending themselves from civilians that are attacking them

i am about to make you two mad

but i am getting tired of people saying it is ok for evil people to do evil things just becouse that is what they are

isreal did everything they could not to attack civilian targets but when hezbollah is hiding field guns inside of houses

and soldiers inside of houses behind civilians what is isreal or the usa supposed to do ask nicely for them to come out and get killed

they wouldn't do that they will still hide behind their civilians and shoot the isreally and usa troops

and yes hezbollah was hiding field guns inside of houses

and they threatened to kill the civilians if they tried to run away after isreal announced where they were going to attack

i am about to make you two mad

actually your post reminds me of another analagy... cancer! Terrorists are like cancer hiding inside your body. Targeting cancer with radiation damages your body, and it is very hard to get rid of.

also the lebaneeze government wanted to get rid of hezbollah but were scarried that if they helped isreal hezbollah would turn against them

remind me what is going on in lebanion now

However the words 'destruction' and 'fanatics' is a perfect marriage. So considering that, i think israel was justified in its actions.

Yes, I guess they were considering they are definitely 'fanatics' and only really know how to get things done via destruction.
Furthermore, all of this talk regarding Iraq is senseless considering the 'passion' that both sides demonstrate when it comes to slinging around the blame for the problems in that country right now.
Those of you who throw around the term 'fanatic'... when was the last time an Arab knocked at your front door and stuck an AK-47 in your face with the demand that you worship Allah or else? I can't ever recall that happening around here, but then maybe I just live in a bubble huh? Doubtful.
And as a final point, long before I read anything that related our country (the US) to the Roman empire of old I felt that our country was nothing more than the 'New Roman Empire' for our actions emulate them to a tee, only with less emphasis on building culture and intelligent thought. We have over 400,000 troops abroad, stationed in areas deemed 'crucial' to our interests. Now I am not a statistics guru but I think it would be safe to say that only 30% of those 'interests' are truly 'our' interests. The rest would be Corporations and the ignorant millionaire/billionaire crowd. Their interests are the only ones that are protected.
We should focus on ourselves and what is happening in this country. Stop the Mexicans from crossing the border and for the love of God send the ones that are already here back... we don't need them. Fix healthcare and the homeless. And for heaven's sake, DO SOMETHING ABOUT OUR FAILED AND MORONIC EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM.
How are those things for a start? That doesn't even touch on the environment, retirement, our nuclear weapons 'problem' (even though it is more of a global problem), and the myriad of other things that could use addressed, not to mention spending our 'tax dollars' on something besides military might.

If our species is to survive our steadily growing powers of destruction, we *must* learn to work around our tendency to think in us-them terms.[/quote] I agree with this statement but it is very unrealistic to think (hope maybe, but not think) that 'we' could ever look at each other in this way, as one big family, despite color, creed, or gender. There will always be this division, period. [quote]All of these categories are far too large and complicated to have practical value in a discussion. Those of you using such words in this way are either deliberately or unthinkingly perpetuating rhetoric in a discussion that sorely lacks reason.

If I offended you with the use of 'Arab', I apologize, but that is the word I would choose to describe them, or would Middle Eastern be more appropriate? Political correctness is something that I abhor, so I do not play into it.
To try and argue against this war and the purposely created genocide that it has wrought... I will always chime in, for I do not believe in it. It is pointless in my eyes, and is doing nothing for me or anyone else in this world, except those few who have money vested in this endeavor.
So yes G.W., this conversation is kind of pointless because nothing will come of it, but if one person reading actually stops and thinks about what is going on, regardless of which side of the fence they wish to choose, then this conversation did at least do some good, even if it wasn't changing the world.

Why did this forum lump my first pulled quote with my response? Hmmm...

all of the muslims in direct conflict with isreal are arabs the only group indirectly invovled with isreal is the iranians and your correct they are not arabs

so when i said the arabs attack isreal i was correct and there may be one or two non arab involved directly

Put that together with my typing speed, love of ornate words, and well, I don't always communicate as well as I'd like

I understand completely. To speak eloquently whilst typing is very difficult. Couple this with being at work (as I am when I'm on here) and the occasional outbreak of excitement over a topic or reply...

PS: And yes, the constant 'in-fighting' with my own urges to flame the hell out of someone, ahem, which I have somehow managed to suppress.

Those of you who throw around the term 'fanatic'... when was the last time an Arab knocked at your front door and stuck an AK-47 in your face with the demand that you worship Allah or else? I can't ever recall that happening around here, but then maybe I just live in a bubble huh? Doubtful.

I used the term fanatic, but i did not use the term 'arab'. My point was that when i think of a religious fanatic full of hatred and be willing to die for their cause.... Ah yea i could not imagine diplomacy having much effect. I mean how can you deal with this kind of person aside from a bullet or a serious amount of drugs??

That's why Daddy Bush stopped the push to finish off Saddam the first time

Here's one where I'm inclined to give Bush 41 a small hat-tip. IMO, they chose not to take the fight into Iraq b/c they understood what it means to kick over an anthill with bare feet and then stand in it. Plus they also apparently understood the value and complexity of maintaining a strong international coalition--just compare the bills (banker's and butcher's) for the '91 war and our current long, hard slog.

The Hussein regime got a solid spanking that kept the world's oil flow safe. The sanctions and inspection regimes had their problems (killing children not least among them), but the no-fly zones were working to keep Iraqi military power contained. Bush 43's choice to invade might well end up being the textbook example used in discussions of "cowboy diplomacy."

That's why Daddy Bush stopped the push to finish off Saddam the first time

Here's one where I'm inclined to give Bush 41 a small hat-tip. IMO, they chose not to take the fight into Iraq b/c they understood what it means to kick over an anthill with bare feet and then stand in it. Plus they also apparently understood the value and complexity of maintaining a strong international coalition--just compare the bills (banker's and butcher's) for the '91 war and our current long, hard slog.

The Hussein regime got a solid spanking that kept the world's oil flow safe. The sanctions and inspection regimes had their problems (killing children not least among them), but the no-fly zones were working to keep Iraqi military power contained. Bush 43's choice to invade might well end up being the textbook example used in discussions of "cowboy diplomacy."

i remember now... palestine attacked israel and got conquored. So began the big independance struggle... yea makes sense now.