'll ask again. Nobody seems to give me clear answers on this but I'll ask. When have I put down the CC?

I'm not going to search for them all, but you implied that the Catholic Church does not teach the Word of God on Dr. Guy's blog:

have had other Catholics thank me for bringing them to the scriptures. They say I've given them a gift that can't be taken away. Now the question I never did ask them is why me? Why didn't they get this from the CC? My question to you is.... Have you ever checked out God's word to see if the CC is telling you the truth?

That same quote, by the way, implies that that Catholics are lost and need you to "save" them.

And after harping on and on about how the Catholic Church is wrong in her teachings (saints being one example) you say:

he Whore of Babylon is found in Revelation 17. Gog of Magog is found in Ezek. Two differnt things. And since this is not a thread on biblical prophecy we won't go there now......but I'll give you a hint on the whore...ok just to get you a thinking. A whore is someone unfaithful, a direct opposite of the bride of Christ in scripture. The church (faithful to Christ) is called the Bride of Christ. The False Religions are called the harlots because they are unfaithful to God. So the WHORE is the mother of all the Harlots. The Whore gives birth to the Harlots. For the exact scripture go to Rev 17. Maybe later we'll discuss this on another thread.

Now, the Catholic Church is wrong and doesn't lead you to Christ (according to you), but we aren't to think that you are saying that the CC is the Whore of Babylon?

Or what about the time that you decided to discuss the drinking problems of priests?

Most of the wine in those days was mixed with water. The children even drank this. There was no refrigeration as LW mentioned. It was pure wine mixed with water. Even in the CC they do this. My husband as an altar boy used to know which priests had the drinking problem by the amount of water put in the wine.

Do you honestly not realize how you come across? I'm sure I could come up with more, but I haven't the time.

BELIEF IN WHAT? SANTA CLAUSE? Have I trodden on a deity here? Like LW said.........NEWS FLASH.......he's not REAL.

Thanks for clearing that up BY YELLING. I was confused, I thought he was real. KFC, do you really not see how condescending you are being? St. Nick is a Catholic Saint (and is depicted in Catholic iconography as a Bishop) who was known for secret gift giving (as Cacto has already pointed out). SO, no, he's not a diety, but he is a saint. You compare a Catholic Saint to Satan and you wonder why people are offended?

Just a man who is hurting bad right now. And all alone.

I know that our friend is hurting, and I feel his pain.

But my belief system is under attack by someone who claims to be on my side - a fellow Christian. She is being a two-face in that she attacks in one breath, and claims that she does not in the next.

Do you really expect me to ignore this?

Shades

I noticed you are very selective in your pulling my quotes out. You seemed to leave out a few. One of course being that not only do I have very dear friends that are Catholic, including my best friend growing up but also almost all my relatives albeit now most are secular Catholics if that's even a term.

What I wrote on Dr Guy's blog did not offend him. I think I asked a fair question. I'm not a religionist. I think it's good to encourage others to think for themselves. What's wrong with that? I spent many years having the CC and other groups think for me. Bad mistake. When I stand before my maker my church or any other church will not be there with me. I will be alone with my God answering to him.

I didn't just decide to talk about the drinking problem of the priests. The priest comment was, in context of the article presented, an experience my husband had. This was not attacking the Church. I was giving an experience we had. Many things have been written here on JU on the ills of the CC. If you're going after these few comments I made (most of them things we expereienced) then to be fair you may want to go after the ones Dr. Guy was talking about that were in his face. I was not one of them.

You are assuming, because of someone else's accusation, that I believe the whore of Babylon is the CC. Again I ask, where did I say that? This is nothing but assumption on your part.

Saints? I defended the scriptures and showed quite clearly you do not have to be dead to be a saint. By doing so I attacked the CC? I can't help it. Some people get in trouble for telling lies. I get in trouble for telling or showing the truth. I'll work on that. But Keep in mind, friends always tell the truth to you.

I'm sorry if I offended you Shades, I certainly didn't mean to, but do you for one minute think I haven't been offended many many times here on JU for mostly just stating my opinion or POV as a Christian?

I did not compare a Saint to Satan. Did you NOT read all my comments? Again I'll say, this was something to think about. This is something Satan does. He distracts. He takes us away from Christ by putting things in our line of vision whether that be SC or the Easter Bunny. This was not at all about the physical...... but all about Spiritual Warfare. And we do have a battle going on whether you believe it or not.

I actually am surprised you wrote back. I'm impressed that you at least backed up your statements and quickly too I might add. Thanks for that.

Don't blame me, either...I'm just here for the PIE!!!

hahah, good stuff. Maybe I should have written about the history of pumpkin pie. Moral of the story here? Don't mess with SANTA.

have some whipped cream with that pie Gid.

Well I guess I accomplished what I set out to do.

And what exactly was that?

This article for crying out loud was just to make you THINK. That's it. Give me your insights but please leave your insults behind.

Pretty hypocritical I'd say, if you'd expect us to just sit here silently while you demean our families and our traditions.

did not compare a Saint to Satan.

Santa Claus and Satan are the same being!

If you (or your son) did not intend to compare Santa and Satan--then please explain this line.

Shades,

I appreciate your tone and your honesty. Thank you for that.

First, let me say that you are completely avoiding the fact that St. Nick is a Catholic Saint and thus part of the traditions of the Catholic Church.

There are many myths and urban legends surrounding Santa. I've found many diff accounts on him over the years. I am not even remotely tying the CC and SANTA together at all. Some stories have the CC picking him up as a saint well after his fame. I'm not even entirely sure there ever really was a REAL St. Nick. Are you? Please believe me. I'm referring to the mythical Santa, not any historical figure and certainly this is not a veiled attempt on my part to jab at the CC.

This is from Wikpedia

Santa Claus is an example of folklore mythology which adults know is fiction, but which is sometimes presented to children as fact. Other prominent examples are the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny. He now forms an important part of the Christmas tradition throughout the Western world and Japan and other parts of East Asia.

Santa Claus is a variation of a Dutch folk tale based on the historical figure Saint Nicholas, a bishop from Myra in Asia Minor (the greater part of modern-day Turkey


nothing in the body of the original blog here remotely is going after the CC.

If you do not think it is the CC (which seemed pretty clear to me the first time you wrote it), please fill us in on who you think it is--that would end the entire saga.

I've already told Baker who was pushing for me to do so already that it's not that easy. Revelation is a very deep book with deep truths that cannot be so easily defined in such a venue. It wouldn't be fair to any here or myself, nor would it necessarily be wanted. This is not the place. And to be honest, while I have taught the book of Revelation in my studies it's so detailed with explanation I couldn't do it justice here. I have jokingly said I should start with Chapt 1 and just go at it.

But man, if Santa is getting this much of a reaction can you imagine what would happen if I got into such a deep subject as the book of Revelation? I know people like controversy and I know I do stir the pot some. I admit I like people to think about things, and converse it, but I never mean it to be condesending or ugly. If I come across that way, I'm sorry. Where I'm from we think it, we say it. The only mincing we do is in pie. I don't pussyfoot around, and I tell it like it is. Some people like that, and some don't. Usually, I hear from the ones that don't.

While you (from your handle) may be a "grey" person, I tend to be very black and white. That's how I think, that's what I see. As a Christian, I believe that's what God wants.

one more thing regarding the judging thing. Jesus never told us NOT to judge. He wants us to make RIGHT judgments, that is, not in hypocricy or malice. When I said what I said, it was the fruit I was seeing. I can't judge hearts. Only God can. What I can see is fruit. Just take a scroll up and look. Sick? Pathetic? Wierd? Need Professional Help? I'm not judging their "root"....I'm judging their "fruit" and that's a totally fair thing to do. Jesus said "by their fruits you will know them" and "out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks."

Otherwise if we don't how are we to know when "to dust off our sandles and walk away?"

4 days to christmas and a jolly time it twill be!

I commented on this, but decided to write it into an article because it got too long: https://forums.joeuser.com/?forumid=16&aid=139474

I'm late to the party but thought I would add my two cents. I believe that Santa is the spirit of Christmas personified. Do many people focus on Santa more than Jesus, yes. Does this make Santa evil, no. I think this is the only nugget of truth in the essay. Yes, I think people have their priorities out whack as far as the true meaning of Christmas but saying that Santa is satan is ridiculous. Santa is not selfish. He gives generously to everyone. Santa rewards good behavior. And if Santa's fat it's because we all feed him cookies. I guess that's an offering to the dark lord.

I have a figurine of Santa kneeling before Jesus and I think that puts it all in perspective. Santa is serving Jesus. I also do not know anyone who worships Santa. I know no one who says prayers to Santa. I have never seen a church of Santa. I don't think anyone has started pilgrimages to the north pole.

I think the whole idea of red being an evil color is absolutely ridiculous. Where di the color red come from? Um, God made it. I'm wearing red lipstick and a red shirt today. I must be serving the devil. How ridiculous is that concept?

I believe that Santa is the spirit of Christmas personified.

PIE is the spirit of Christmas personified! PIE! PIE! PIE!

I got caught up in the "war on Christmas" and the "anti-war on Christmas" debate last year. Not this year, baby! Bring on the Cool Whip!

No matter where you stand on the subject, KFC’s son’s article is certainly thought provoking. Although I find the message extreme, I think he’s on to something....identified something which KFC described as a spiritual battle that is being waged for our souls.

There is nothing demonic about Saint Nicholas or his properly ordered spirit of gift giving that has lived on through the centuries.

Saint Nicholas lived in the early 300’s and is known as the patron saint of children. Ever since the 5th century, Catholics celebrate the feast day on December 6th. The date of his death is not certain given as 345 and 352. The only recorded historical information that is known about Saint Nicholas was when he was Archbishop of Myra in Lycia, (present day Turkey). He was imprisoned during the Diocletian persecution and present at the Council of Nicea I. Legends have it that from the day of his Baptism he could perform miracles, heal the sick and calm storms. The principle miracle-legends deal with his liberation of 3 unjustly imprisoned officers, of his deliverance of 3 innocent youths condemned to death and his secret provision of dowries of 3 poor girls. St. Nicholas was known primarily for his anonymous aid to people in need, particularly to children. His “gift giving” tradition was brought to Germany by the Byzantine princess Theophano, wife of Otto II in 973. The dowry legend was combined with local folklore making St. Nicholas the bringer of secret presents for children on his feast day. As centuries went by, his generosity became legendary and the spirit of his gift giving encouraged others to give to the poor and those in need at this time of year.

Santa Claus per se is not Catholic but a product of Protestantism that has now fallen into secularism. The gift giving tradition was changed in the 16th century when some Reformers deemed St. Nicholas too identifiable with the CC and replaced him with other figures. Different regions established their own gift-giver. In Italy, gifts were brought by the old woman, Befana, from the Feast of Epiphany on Jan. 6. In Spain, it was the Three Kings and in England, Father Christmas. In most parts of Europe though, it was the Christ Child who brought the gifts. German Protestants encouraged veneration of the Christ Child as a gift giver on His own birthday-December 25th. In German, Christ Child is “Christkindl” which evolved into “Kriss Kringle”. Saint Nicholas was adapted to “Sinterklaus” in Dutch and in English speaking countries, Saint Nicholas’ name was corrupted into Santa Claus. The custom of exchanging gifts via “Santa Claus” became associated with Christmas eve.

In Catholicism, the rhythm of the sacred seasons remain a constant. Christmas is the liturgical celebration of the Mystery of the Incarnation, “the perfect irony of all human history. This is because in order to communicate Himself to us, to give His essence to us in a perfect manner, God chose to become that which we cannot look to for redemption: a man. God became one of us in all things except sin.” (Peter Mirus’ Serenity Among the Thorns). Christ became man for the primary purpose of dying to redeem us. After the Feast of Christ the King, we celebrate the 4 weeks of Advent. During this time we wait with hope and peaceful hearts, in awe and wonder. We watch and prepare ourselves by repenting of our sins for the coming of the Christ Child. It’s about getting back to the basics of Faith. This is the message of Christmas. Christ is the reason for the season-- the very heart of Christmas and our lives each day. Advent is the time to reflect more deeply on putting Christ first and our human relationships in proper perspective after that. This is the time we look forward to maintaining closer ties with family and friends. We witness to our own children about our own childhood in joyful anticipation as Christmas approaches. Christmas seems to reveal many of the qualities that are best about our humanity.

I completely understand FKC’s explanation of it as a spiritual battle that is being waged for our very souls. Christ is being taken out of Christmas and all things Christian are slowly being taken away--from the public square, the workplace, education, and in so many of our lives. This gift of Almighty God to all of us is being rejected. One sign of this is the Santa Claus phenomenon which for the most part is huge $$$$’s, materialism and rank commercialism. It’s the time of year that business transactions of buying and spending are measured. Catholics should honor and venerate the true Saint Nicholas not the unsaintly representations of him as paraded around department stores to drum up sales and revenues starting with the first and busiest day following Thanksgiving, “Black Friday”. Secret “Santas” line up for hours and trample one another in a rush to purchase the latest toy novelty with nary a “Merry Christmas” spoken.

God gave us freedom to choose what we love. Satan is the master of deceit. If he can induce us to deny the Lord and displace God’s love as the source and object of our deepest desires, the very motivation for our life each day, he most certainly will. He will try to draw us little by little, with empty promises, on things that cannot last. Only Jesus can satisfy our deepest longing and desire. If we open our hearts to the Christ Child and make Him our treasure, every thing Satan sends our way can be overcome.

So--may I suggest for those of you who are Catholic, go and receive the graces of Holy Confession and Christmas Mass. It will be like taking the weight of the world off your back. To all non-Catholics, especially those in the midst of turmoil, restore your perspective by seeing the new movie, The Nativity Story. Prepare yourselves first by reading St. Luke Chapter one (all 80 verses) and two (52 verses.) As you read it, listen to the Holy Spirit who authored the words. It’s God telling you about Himself. How powerful is that and the possibilities that follow are endless!

KFC, may the Lord God make you strong in battle.

To all of you in JU land, With my prayers for every blessing and Christ’s peace upon you.

Why Thank you Lulabelle. Golly and you're a Catholic too.....don't you know I'm not very nice to Catholics............or so I've been told.

I agree with you (of course) about St. Nick vs Santa Claus. SC is not even close to the original St. Nick and the stories surrounding the orignial St. Nick I think have become lost thru the years although I thought you did a nice job here with the history. Most I have heard of with a few diff variations over the years. Regardless, the SC we recognize today is no St. Nick of yesteryear.

I mean think about it. We have Santa as omnipotent, and omniscient, just like God. He's got special powers to give or not give good gifts or coal if you've not been good. Sound familiar? Where does coal come from? He gives presents (if you're good) albeit they are all physical ones. But we know that God is the giver of the real valuable gifts. The genuine gifts come from above. Peace, love, faith, and the gift that outshines any on earth, eternal life. What good are the gifts of this world without peace in your heart, without the love of another? What good can any gift under the tree compare with eternal life? Satan is an imitator and wishes only to usurp God. He wants God's job. He wants to be God. He distracts us with the physical trying to win our loyalties.

God emptied heaven of it's greatest treasure, his only son, only for us to shove it back and say.......not good enough. I don't want it. This is a gift that keeps on giving never to rust or decay and is new every morning. How great is that? Why would we refuse such a gift if not for Satan's deception in the first place? Yes it is a battle but not a physical one, it's one that is being waged for man's soul.

I will do as you requested (do it anyway...) and read Luke Chap 1 and 2.

May God strengthen and bless you as well.......

KFC

Santa isn't real. Neither is Satan. They are ideas, period

are you absolutely sure on this LW? If so, how can you be?

PIE is the spirit of Christmas personified! PIE! PIE! PIE!

hahaha Gid, you'd better push away from the table....you've been eating pie for days now. You know what they say....you are what you eat.....

I got caught up in the "war on Christmas" and the "anti-war on Christmas" debate last year. Not this year, baby! Bring on the Cool Whip

awwwwwww and i missed it? Well I guess I picked up your slack this year. I say for next year.....tag you're it!!!

Cool Whip? As long as it isn't LITTLE WHIP! Besides you wouldn't want her around. She's very busy barfing on the other side of the computer screen.

Hey and since we're all here, not changing the subject or anything, make sure you check out my newest heartwarming (for a change) story.

MERRY CHRISTMAS to all who tuned in here regardless if you agree or disagree with this thread. I wish you all , regardless of situation, peace and joy not only for this holiday season but also for the coming year. My prayers have been with you all.